Fallout Fallout

[baturinsky]

They had more content and lots of interesting characters, but because of these areas F2 has lost it's dark atmosphere and seriousness of the first game.

So, fault of F2 is that it's atmosphere was not fit to your personal preferences?

 

[Dreaad]

^ What? Just... what? The writing of a game villain does not measure the quality of the writing? Good one bro.

Master and his army is at most %20-25 of the game. Even if we consider them retarted as a concept, rest of the game has more solid writing than F2. Just give us couple of examples from more areas (Just like Pope Amole did for F2) if you want to prove your point.

Look I got dragged into this when I said it was ridiculous to claim that giant green orks is somehow more fitting with a post apocalyptic setting then talking deathclaws and a gold rush. Then I got these elitist defenders claiming that the mutants made more sense because of FEV and the master. I never claimed that Fallout 1's writing is somehow sub par to Fallout 2, Fallout 2 is a natural of evolution of the earlier work.
Claiming that laser/plasma pistols/super sledges and 'water chips' are somehow more dark and realistic than talking squirrels makes little sense. Both games are a sarcastic take on a post apocalyptic environment. The difference being that in Fallout 1, people are just begging to emerge from the vaults and make communities.... which are already rife with cults/ crazy people and over the top extremist groups. Fallout 2 is set later on, is it any wonder that the FEV virus and in general radiation soaked world filled with said communities, degenerates further down the same track?

 

[tuluse]

Why? New Reno IS Northen California. Or, rather, it's power center. It makes much more sense than power vacuum of F1.

Walk from the NCR to New Reno and see how much in game time goes by. Then tell me how realistic it is that people are going there for entertainment.

 

[baturinsky]

Why? New Reno IS Northen California. Or, rather, it's power center. It makes much more sense than power vacuum of F1.

Walk from the NCR to New Reno and see how much in game time goes by. Then tell me how realistic it is that people are going there for entertainment.

Why do you assume that people go to New Reno for entertainment? I don't remember seen anybody from NCR in New Reno. Except slaves, maybe.

 

[tuluse]

How does a casino make money without people coming to it?

 

[Horus]

How does a casino make money without people coming to it?

 

[baturinsky]

How does a casino make money without people coming to it?

There are enough locals with enough money. Money they got from raiding, slavery, drug and alcohol trade, which are the real sources of New Reno wealth and power.

 

[Dreaad]

How does a casino make money without people coming to it?

As mentioned earlier in the thread... where you protagonist goes and what he sees is not an indication of the whole area and everyone living in it.He/she visits areas where interesting stuff is happening.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

So, fault of F2 is that it's atmosphere was not fit to your personal preferences?

No, its fault is that it doesn't follow the balance of darkness/seriousness/humour set by Fallout 1.

Look I got dragged into this when I said it was ridiculous to claim that giant green orks is somehow more fitting with a post apocalyptic setting then talking deathclaws and a gold rush. Then I got these elitist defenders claiming that the mutants made more sense because of FEV and the master.

You mean that stronger and more resistant but uglier and potentially brain damaged humans are on the same level as talking lizards?
We already have for example steroids which can make people stronger and uglier and shrink their genitals.

Claiming that laser/plasma pistols/super sledges and 'water chips' are somehow more dark and realistic than talking squirrels makes little sense.

Talking squirrels belong to fairy-tales. On the other hand rayguns, advanced melee weapons and huge computers were a part of serious science-fiction for a long time. Just read the early Foundation books from the times when they still thought that Atomic power has no limits - they are full of atomic rayguns, atomic engines, personal atomic reactors and similar stuff that now sounds silly but didn't when they were written.

Fallout 2 is set later on, is it any wonder that the FEV virus and in general radiation soaked world filled with said communities, degenerates further down the same track?

The main difference is that Fallout 1 has always cared to show how it works. Practically every town had fields, farmers, brahmin, etc.

New Reno was kinda a wasted opportunity because it was a city that was never bombed. How would such a city look and function was never properly explored in the game.

 

[2house2fly]

Why? New Reno IS Northen California. Or, rather, it's power center. It makes much more sense than power vacuum of F1.

Walk from the NCR to New Reno and see how much in game time goes by. Then tell me how realistic it is that people are going there for entertainment.

According to one Fallout 1 ending, Gizmo turned Junktown into a "boomtown" on the strength of his one casino. This despite being a long way from any viable settlements apart from the Hub (and Necropolis and the Brotherhood if you're feeling really generous). I don't see how New Reno is significantly less realistic than that, especially considering it bolsters its casino wealth with drink, drugs, prostitutes, porn, sport and political manipulations, and in general makes itself a much more tempting tourist spot.

 

[St. Toxic]

Booze, dope and gambling were always popular outlets. Nothing odd about gaining political power by controlling the unwashed masses with some trinket or other.

 

[Country_Gravy]

If I lived in a post apocalyptic wasteland, I would probably be into booze, drugs and whores.

If I didn't live in a post apocalyptic wasteland, I would probably be into booze, drugs and whores.

 

[baturinsky]

Fallout 2 is set later on, is it any wonder that the FEV virus and in general radiation soaked world filled with said communities, degenerates further down the same track?

The main difference is that Fallout 1 has always cared to show how it works. Practically every town had fields, farmers, brahmin, etc.

Except there is no point to have a lot of tiny defenseless agricultural settlements. There is no reason for Junktown to exist - you can grow your cabbages near Hub as well, where you can easily sell it and have protection from raiders.

 

[Horus]

I did't said that?

 

[baturinsky]

I did't said that?

Oops, fixed.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

According to one Fallout 1 ending, Gizmo turned Junktown into a "boomtown" on the strength of his one casino. This despite being a long way from any viable settlements apart from the Hub (and Necropolis and the Brotherhood if you're feeling really generous). I don't see how New Reno is significantly less realistic than that, especially considering it bolsters its casino wealth with drink, drugs, prostitutes, porn, sport and political manipulations, and in general makes itself a much more tempting tourist spot.

The thing is that the Hub is pretty huge. It's not just the few areas represented in game. According to deputy Fry, the Hub downtown is a few miles from the entrance. A few miles. It's basically a fully-sized city with lots of farmers, workers, traders, guards, rich people, etc. and is very close to Junktown.

New Reno is unrealistic, because it should be bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on than just the Casinos and mafia families.

Except there is no point to have a lot of tiny defenseless agricultural settlements. There is no reason for Junktown to exist - you can grow your cabbages near Hub as well, where you can easily sell it and have protection from raiders.

Junktown isn't defenceless. It's a walled town with lots of guards. Still, Junktown is a shithole that is slowly dying out and is kept alive only by Gizmo's business. That's why originally, Gizmo winning would be a good ending and Killian winning would be a bad ending.

Also, there are lots of farms around the Hub.

 

[baturinsky]

The thing is that the Hub is pretty huge. It's not just the few areas represented in game According to deputy Fry, the Hub downtown is a few miles from the entrance. A few miles. It's basically a fully-sized city with lots of farmers, workers, traders, guards, rich people, etc. and is very close to Junktown.

New Reno is unrealistic, because it should be bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on than just the Casinos and mafia families.

New Reno bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on. There is much more quests in New Reno than in in Hub, and they are more interesting and non-linear.
"Just" the Casinos and mafia families is still five as much as "just" merchants. And there is also film studio and boxing ring.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

New Reno bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on. There is much more quests in New Reno than in in Hub, and they are more interesting and non-linear.
"Just" the Casinos and mafia families is still five as much as "just" merchants. And there is also film studio and boxing ring.

We're talking about the setting here, not about quests. The Hub wasn't "just" merchants. It was farming and water source and merchants and caravans and then finally vice that fed on it all.
New Reno has just vice.

 

[baturinsky]

New Reno bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on. There is much more quests in New Reno than in in Hub, and they are more interesting and non-linear.
"Just" the Casinos and mafia families is still five as much as "just" merchants. And there is also film studio and boxing ring.

We're talking about the setting here, not about quests. The Hub wasn't "just" merchants. It was farming and water source and merchants and caravans and then finally vice that fed on it all.
New Reno has just vice.

I can see how New Reno can seem too be too one-dimensional.

Actually, it's not just New Reno, all towns in F2 seems to be more specialized. Gecko skinning town, slaver town, reactor town, uranium town, gold town, jet town, etc.
I think it is logical. Because caravans, globalization and all that. Why, say, grow corn in New Reno, if you can make Jet out of brahmin shit instead and buy as much corn as you need from caravans?

And I personally found specialization more interesting, than Deja Vu towns in F1.

 

[Dreaad]

New Reno bigger and more developed than the Hub with much more stuff going on. There is much more quests in New Reno than in in Hub, and they are more interesting and non-linear.
"Just" the Casinos and mafia families is still five as much as "just" merchants. And there is also film studio and boxing ring.

We're talking about the setting here, not about quests. The Hub wasn't "just" merchants. It was farming and water source and merchants and caravans and then finally vice that fed on it all.
New Reno has just vice.

Well you're not exactly going to grow your fucking crops next to where the weapon/drug dealers live if there is room somewhere else

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The thing is that the Hub is pretty huge. It's not just the few areas represented in game.

Doesn't the same abstraction apply to New Reno?

 

[Rake]

The thing is that the Hub is pretty huge. It's not just the few areas represented in game.

Doesn't the same abstraction apply to New Reno?

That. In the setting New Reno was bigger town than the Hub.

 

[suejak]

Why? New Reno IS Northen California. Or, rather, it's power center. It makes much more sense than power vacuum of F1.

Walk from the NCR to New Reno and see how much in game time goes by. Then tell me how realistic it is that people are going there for entertainment.

According to one Fallout 1 ending, Gizmo turned Junktown into a "boomtown" on the strength of his one casino. This despite being a long way from any viable settlements apart from the Hub (and Necropolis and the Brotherhood if you're feeling really generous). I don't see how New Reno is significantly less realistic than that, especially considering it bolsters its casino wealth with drink, drugs, prostitutes, porn, sport and political manipulations, and in general makes itself a much more tempting tourist spot.

That ending was cut during development.

 

[2house2fly]

From the Fallout wiki, since I shot Gizmo in the face in my game and so can't speak from direct experience:

Prerequisites: Don't kill Gizmo.​

Junktown becomes the new boomtown under the careful, and profitable, guidance of Don Gizmo. He profits the most, and continues to increase the size of his casino, and the scope of his power, until he chokes to death while eating some iguana-on-a-stick.​

Alternate version​

Under Gizmo's leadership, Junktown becomes a trading center and resort, where people come from miles around to gamble, spend money and enjoy themselves in relative safety. Gizmo keeps the town prosperous but healthy, as he has no desire to injure his own affluence. The inhabitants of the town become wealthy and famous.​

The alternate version wasn't cut because it was unrealistic(People come from miles around to gamble!), but because Interplay didn't like the idea of cheating the player by having the "good" option lead to the "bad" ending. Really they just reworded it so Gizmo was less civic-minded and died in a hilarious way.

 

[Horus]

Fallout 2 is set later on, is it any wonder that the FEV virus and in general radiation soaked world filled with said communities, degenerates further down the same track?

The main difference is that Fallout 1 has always cared to show how it works. Practically every town had fields, farmers, brahmin, etc.

Except there is no point to have a lot of tiny defenseless agricultural settlements. There is no reason for Junktown to exist - you can grow your cabbages near Hub as well, where you can easily sell it and have protection from raiders.

Agriculture doesn't work that way. You need fertile lands, plenty of water and you have to make it financially viable. If they gone to Hub they would be under monopoly of water merchants and have to compete with others. These are the reasons our ancestors built many towns instead of expanding their main town.