The Limper
Learned
Thanks for that! Picked up FG2 and Sengoku Jidai with all their trimmings for $21. Sweet deal!
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TBS Fantasy General II by Slitherine Games
- Thread starter Martyr
- Start date
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- Tags
- turn based tactics
Why of course there has to be a bundle after I finally bought the damn thing. Oh well, I doubt I'd ever play through the DLC. The main campaign itself is a massive slog.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
The other DLCs are much faster paced and they aren't linear so it feels less of a slog than the main campaign. The lizardman DLC was especially great.
Nutmeg
Arcane
Playing this after having conquered Eo twice, since it's from the same developer. Just like Conquest of Eo, it's quite a great game. Turns out these guys are quite talented.
I chose Empire Aflame for my first campaign, Iron Maiden, Normal (after getting my ass handed to me on higher difficulties). Still not done, only about 6 (?) maps in.
I picked up the Harpies as my first minor faction not knowing doing so locked me out of the Centaurs, and also not really knowing how to use Harpies (or flying units in general, I'm far too reckless with them and lost my Pegasus knights too).
I also just chose the "offer to protect" option with regards to a merchant after the "one time offer" Centaur map, not knowing the choice meant giving my most experienced unit in exchange for increased supply.
In the first case, I'm not salty, as I can understand not spelling out long term consequences for a choice, but in the second case, I really would have preferred to know that "offer to protect" meant "give up a unit", even if the game chose to hide what I'd get in return, though I'd prefer to know that as well (it was a negotiation, after all).
Paired with Iron Maiden (as it is called in this game, or other forms of suspend and resume play elsewhere), this kind of approach to choices and consequences becomes a "guess the game designer (or writer)'s mind and note down consequences for subsequent playthroughs" game within the game, which e.g. formed a big part of FTL (a part I didn't like).
I can excuse it in this case as Iron Maiden is not the primary mode of play (though the game is extremely tense and exciting in this mode of play).
That said, I really like the maps and how active the AI is. The province (was it province?) wealth and exploration "system" is quite neat too, though it might be abusable (do settlements keep providing income after province wealth drops to 0? If so, there's your exploit, and also what the devs would need to do to fix it).
I chose Empire Aflame for my first campaign, Iron Maiden, Normal (after getting my ass handed to me on higher difficulties). Still not done, only about 6 (?) maps in.
I picked up the Harpies as my first minor faction not knowing doing so locked me out of the Centaurs, and also not really knowing how to use Harpies (or flying units in general, I'm far too reckless with them and lost my Pegasus knights too).
I also just chose the "offer to protect" option with regards to a merchant after the "one time offer" Centaur map, not knowing the choice meant giving my most experienced unit in exchange for increased supply.
In the first case, I'm not salty, as I can understand not spelling out long term consequences for a choice, but in the second case, I really would have preferred to know that "offer to protect" meant "give up a unit", even if the game chose to hide what I'd get in return, though I'd prefer to know that as well (it was a negotiation, after all).
Paired with Iron Maiden (as it is called in this game, or other forms of suspend and resume play elsewhere), this kind of approach to choices and consequences becomes a "guess the game designer (or writer)'s mind and note down consequences for subsequent playthroughs" game within the game, which e.g. formed a big part of FTL (a part I didn't like).
I can excuse it in this case as Iron Maiden is not the primary mode of play (though the game is extremely tense and exciting in this mode of play).
That said, I really like the maps and how active the AI is. The province (was it province?) wealth and exploration "system" is quite neat too, though it might be abusable (do settlements keep providing income after province wealth drops to 0? If so, there's your exploit, and also what the devs would need to do to fix it).
I like this approach when you dont know the outcome of your choices. If I know everything upfront, its a big spoiler, feels like study wiki before game and stinks of chess game.
I always play iron maiden (no save scumming) and love onslaught campaigns. I always skip lore dumps, so i cant appreciate the writing behind handmade campaigns.
i re start fg2 campaign because i lock myself in bad army composition (not enough supplies). I play evolution camp twice because i lock myself out of giant crab unit with ship hulk as armor and this looks sick!
... when im done with emperor of fading suns.. im going to replay fg2
Nutmeg
Arcane
Odd complaint for someone who enjoys FG2 because it is a mostly deterministic game (I guess deaths vs wounded is RNG, and maybe morale too. Not sure about the AI or exploration rewards as I've been playing Iron Maiden). If you play enough you will eventually learn all the outcomes anyway unless you have a bad memory or don't care enough to write the outcomes down.
Speaking generally, I also tend to skip cutscenes or dialogue, but I still like handmade campaigns because the maps tend to be better thought out. In the case of FG2 there hasn't been any dialogue lengthy enough for me to warrant a skip. Very well paced in that regard, and the writing is decent too.
Nutmeg
Arcane
I also noticed the amount of gold per unit of wealth left is equal to your end of scenario income, or maybe potential income (all remaining settlements on map)? Which leads me to another question which is about the scavenging, is it equal to exploring all unexplored locations at end of scenario wealth level? That would make sense.
The manual doesn't explain much. Maybe I should start a save scumming for info gathering playthrough.
razvedchiki
Arcane
for the campaigns always try to scout and find out where the caves/mounds etc are, the more wealth timer there is the better item/gold it will drop.
try to save scum and get the item that spawns bats or/and use a wolf mother.
try to save scum and get the item that spawns bats or/and use a wolf mother.
Nutmeg
Arcane
I very much so regret taking the Filos route. In retrospect, the game did very explicitly and uncharacteristically break the fourth wall to warn me against doing so, even emphasizing the game would play very differently. For whatever reason I dismissed it as a "no, you're being the bad guy, you are meant to be the good guy!" or "are you sure you want to lose all the units you've invested in?" kind of warning
They should have cut it. Alternatively, I should have just completely ignored its "unique mechanics", which would have saved me a lot of tedium until the demon level, after which you must deploy the demon gate to begin the scenario, ensuring tedium.
It really doesn't help that the shadows (outside the basic spawns, which remind me a bit of the ghosts from gauntlet, which I suppose may have been some kind of inspiration here with the spawners) look so lame and uninspired. Battlefield filled with cringe goofy purple glowy interdimensional lobsters. I could forgive it if they appeared in one or two scenarios max, which I suppose is the case for the Moira route.
Anyway I looked up how much more of this crap I need to take and it is only two more scenarios so I'll stick through it.
They should have cut it. Alternatively, I should have just completely ignored its "unique mechanics", which would have saved me a lot of tedium until the demon level, after which you must deploy the demon gate to begin the scenario, ensuring tedium.
It really doesn't help that the shadows (outside the basic spawns, which remind me a bit of the ghosts from gauntlet, which I suppose may have been some kind of inspiration here with the spawners) look so lame and uninspired. Battlefield filled with cringe goofy purple glowy interdimensional lobsters. I could forgive it if they appeared in one or two scenarios max, which I suppose is the case for the Moira route.
Anyway I looked up how much more of this crap I need to take and it is only two more scenarios so I'll stick through it.
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Nutmeg
Arcane
Ok finished my Empire Aflame, Filos, Iron-Maiden, no scaling, Hero (Normal) mode run with a score of 1040, and a loss on the final scenario (so 23 scenarios completed, 18 on time). Scoring may be broken in Empire Aflame (assuming Empire Aflame is the only campaign with generators) since you are awarded for units killed (around two thirds of my score came from units killed), and you can just leave a unit generator alive and milk it indefinitely. I say may, as it could be the case that generated units don't contribute to scored kills. There could also be a similar exploit with AIs that hire units, which would affect other campaigns as well, so an alternative fix which would handle both is to award no score for killing units "over time" (which again, may already be the case, I don't know).
Playing against monster generators is a lot more fun than playing with monster generators, as they are effectively a time pressure mechanism -- at the very least you have to always be killing more than N units a turn where N is the number of generators (each generator spawns 3 units every 3 turns, so effectively 1 unit a turn), or if the primary objective isn't to "kill all opposition" (as the game puts it), you still need to be making steady progress towards the goal, lest the battlefield get swamped.
Personally, in the two scenarios where the enemy had generators (not counting the final, the demon gate, and the one in which they first appear where your goal is to escape), I used my air force on march orders to go for the jugular i.e. the generators themselves, and then the Spawns which could re-establish them. Shadowspawn only have two units with anti-air capabilities, the Shadow Worms (?) (rare), and the Shadow Beasts (? I may be misremembering these names) (even more rare), which I would prioritize on my path to the generators, making the aftermath of this strategy a tedious purple lobster (the fourth kind of Shadowspawn, I believe they are called Shadow Claws) hunt across the map, with absolutely no way to lose a unit as they simply could not fight back against my Night Mare Acolytes or Reapers. The first time it was mildly amusing even though tedious, the second time, it was old, thankfully there wasn't a third time. The fix here would have been to make these missions "destroy all generators" not "kill all opposition".
On the other hand, playing with monster generators is not fun because you end up with dozens of trash units you need to laboriously concentrate in order for them to be an effective fighting force (my original plan, which I somewhat stuck with, was to use an entourage of Shadow Spawns to set up 3 generators ASAP, and then have Spawns be my infantry, while I only maintained an airforce). Alternatively you can use them as expendable scouts for recon and exploration, but it's no less tedious -- the tedium is a result of the way generators are established with no way of relocating them (or even destroying them, AFAIK. Why is there no way to fire units during a scenario?), and the timing with which they spawn units. A fix could be for them to accumulate spawnable units at the current rate (or some adjusted rate), but only actually spawn them on demand, and to be able to transfer units from one gate to the other. But, to be honest, best would be to just keep generators strictly in the hands of the enemy. Since I doubt the devs will ever revisit this and modders tend to never cut, only add (if they ever even appear for this game) your best bet as the player, right now, IMO, is to just completely ignore shadow essence.
As for my final scenario loss, ironically, being shown part of the enemy's force composition during the deployment phase contributed the most, as I thought the separate groups manning the wall could be aggroed separately, but turns out they aggro all at once. As a result, my strategy which involved (what turned out to be an overconfident) charge with my air force into the eastern most shadow spawn group was subsequently flanked on both sides, and instead of retreating, I decided to breakthrough to the primary objective (as I suspected the forces would be thin behind the front line, which they absolutely were not), took too many losses, and it was over.
I did manage to get the secondary objective with a small infiltration detachment (Longbowmen, Trackers and Armored Archers with an invisibility cloak), which gave me control over all generators on the map. Only a small respite from the shadow spawn onslaught, as the generators are promptly taken out, and (assumedly) re-established. I guess it can give you 6+ turns of no spawns in a mission with a 30 turn limit hard timer, so it's not that bad a prize.
Even with that experience, I'm not sure the strategy I've formulated for next time would work either, which is to distract the bulk of the enemy forces with spawns, while a larger infiltration group consisting of my elite air force as well, gets the Transmuter's College (aforementioned secondary objective) and then from there launches an assault on the primary (the Master). That said, I don't know when next time will come, as a replay of the Filos route is now my bottom priority for this game.
I want to try the main campaign next, then maybe Moira route.
Playing against monster generators is a lot more fun than playing with monster generators, as they are effectively a time pressure mechanism -- at the very least you have to always be killing more than N units a turn where N is the number of generators (each generator spawns 3 units every 3 turns, so effectively 1 unit a turn), or if the primary objective isn't to "kill all opposition" (as the game puts it), you still need to be making steady progress towards the goal, lest the battlefield get swamped.
Personally, in the two scenarios where the enemy had generators (not counting the final, the demon gate, and the one in which they first appear where your goal is to escape), I used my air force on march orders to go for the jugular i.e. the generators themselves, and then the Spawns which could re-establish them. Shadowspawn only have two units with anti-air capabilities, the Shadow Worms (?) (rare), and the Shadow Beasts (? I may be misremembering these names) (even more rare), which I would prioritize on my path to the generators, making the aftermath of this strategy a tedious purple lobster (the fourth kind of Shadowspawn, I believe they are called Shadow Claws) hunt across the map, with absolutely no way to lose a unit as they simply could not fight back against my Night Mare Acolytes or Reapers. The first time it was mildly amusing even though tedious, the second time, it was old, thankfully there wasn't a third time. The fix here would have been to make these missions "destroy all generators" not "kill all opposition".
On the other hand, playing with monster generators is not fun because you end up with dozens of trash units you need to laboriously concentrate in order for them to be an effective fighting force (my original plan, which I somewhat stuck with, was to use an entourage of Shadow Spawns to set up 3 generators ASAP, and then have Spawns be my infantry, while I only maintained an airforce). Alternatively you can use them as expendable scouts for recon and exploration, but it's no less tedious -- the tedium is a result of the way generators are established with no way of relocating them (or even destroying them, AFAIK. Why is there no way to fire units during a scenario?), and the timing with which they spawn units. A fix could be for them to accumulate spawnable units at the current rate (or some adjusted rate), but only actually spawn them on demand, and to be able to transfer units from one gate to the other. But, to be honest, best would be to just keep generators strictly in the hands of the enemy. Since I doubt the devs will ever revisit this and modders tend to never cut, only add (if they ever even appear for this game) your best bet as the player, right now, IMO, is to just completely ignore shadow essence.
As for my final scenario loss, ironically, being shown part of the enemy's force composition during the deployment phase contributed the most, as I thought the separate groups manning the wall could be aggroed separately, but turns out they aggro all at once. As a result, my strategy which involved (what turned out to be an overconfident) charge with my air force into the eastern most shadow spawn group was subsequently flanked on both sides, and instead of retreating, I decided to breakthrough to the primary objective (as I suspected the forces would be thin behind the front line, which they absolutely were not), took too many losses, and it was over.
I did manage to get the secondary objective with a small infiltration detachment (Longbowmen, Trackers and Armored Archers with an invisibility cloak), which gave me control over all generators on the map. Only a small respite from the shadow spawn onslaught, as the generators are promptly taken out, and (assumedly) re-established. I guess it can give you 6+ turns of no spawns in a mission with a 30 turn limit hard timer, so it's not that bad a prize.
Even with that experience, I'm not sure the strategy I've formulated for next time would work either, which is to distract the bulk of the enemy forces with spawns, while a larger infiltration group consisting of my elite air force as well, gets the Transmuter's College (aforementioned secondary objective) and then from there launches an assault on the primary (the Master). That said, I don't know when next time will come, as a replay of the Filos route is now my bottom priority for this game.
I want to try the main campaign next, then maybe Moira route.
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Nutmeg
Arcane
Main (Invasion) campaign is great so far. Playing on Veteran (Challenging) this time around which gives a score multiplier of 1, so I guess that makes it the true "normal" difficulty. Also Iron Maiden, of course.
I've had three aborted attempts already but now made it to the midpoint. Compared to my previous Empire Aflame run, I have found myself needing to be far more careful with my engagement tactics (esp. combos and ZoC), whereas previously I could rely on force concentration.
Not sure if it's a matter of increased difficulty or better scenario design but I suspect it is a bit of both. Let's see if the latter half will devolve to tedious cheese like Empire Aflame (Filos).
I've had three aborted attempts already but now made it to the midpoint. Compared to my previous Empire Aflame run, I have found myself needing to be far more careful with my engagement tactics (esp. combos and ZoC), whereas previously I could rely on force concentration.
Not sure if it's a matter of increased difficulty or better scenario design but I suspect it is a bit of both. Let's see if the latter half will devolve to tedious cheese like Empire Aflame (Filos).
razvedchiki
Arcane
for the main campaign, i found those units usefull
- wolf mothers for capturing and summoning animals
- trackers for scouting/capturing nodes
- valkyries for their jump attack that fortifies
- 1 unit of heavy axemen, with a buff you get early and some items they become immortal.
- 4-6 fire archers (from imperial volunteers) to counter the hordes of undead.
- wolf mothers for capturing and summoning animals
- trackers for scouting/capturing nodes
- valkyries for their jump attack that fortifies
- 1 unit of heavy axemen, with a buff you get early and some items they become immortal.
- 4-6 fire archers (from imperial volunteers) to counter the hordes of undead.
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 19,464
The imperial archers are your most damaging unit, so I'd prioritize them for upgrades if you can find some. Wolf mothers are micro heavy to make the most out of them and they gobble up mana, which is bad because one of the heroes can summon elementals/spirits and they are the best use of mana by far (unfortunately). That's my biggest criticism of the OG campaign, actually. The only worthwhile spells are the summon spirits ones once you get them. Yeah, they gobble up mana like nobody's business, but they really are worth it.
Nutmeg
Arcane
I went down the chain lightning tree with Ailsa, and yeah I was just able to afford a Wolf Mother after getting a good time on the gap with raids. Got two imperial units from camps (one of the perks of always running with excess supply cause low on money).
IME, every unit has their use. I've found e.g. the Iron Javelins indispensable in the early scenarios for soaking up enemy defensive fire and Stag Lancers indispensable for chasing down retreating units and whittling down undead with near impunity.
Playing Iron Maiden of course it's not unusual to lose a unit or two every scenario or two, so I'm always broke. Just lost a Stag Lancer last scenario cause I miscalculated enemy sight range (they were on a tower!). That's 3 weapons and almost 300 gold, just like that. Really stings lol.
IME, every unit has their use. I've found e.g. the Iron Javelins indispensable in the early scenarios for soaking up enemy defensive fire and Stag Lancers indispensable for chasing down retreating units and whittling down undead with near impunity.
Playing Iron Maiden of course it's not unusual to lose a unit or two every scenario or two, so I'm always broke. Just lost a Stag Lancer last scenario cause I miscalculated enemy sight range (they were on a tower!). That's 3 weapons and almost 300 gold, just like that. Really stings lol.
Nutmeg
Arcane
And completed the Invasion campaign. Iron Maiden, Veteran (Challenging), with a win!
1894 score, 25 out of 27 scenarios completed on time.
Absolutely steamrolled the last two scenarios, so it felt kind of anti-climatic in that regard.
I really loved the campaign before you got to the Lizardfolk lands, and then it was only so-so afterwards, more a test of patience and discipline (reminded me a lot of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, in that regard), with some nice set pieces (Shrouded Hills' assault through the fog on the castle, There and Back Again's defense of the river crossing, Dragon Isles' island forts, Bay of Kyrios' undead horde in the poison fog), and even some nice adventuring (the first time you play a swamp level, all the Harpy towers in Princess Marcra), but only one or two scenarios posing any threat of a loss and therefore providing any genuine excitement.
I lost a lot of good, expensive units but always had just enough resources to recover, though sometimes I'd need to be creative about it. The ones that gutted me the most were Ulnar, my Wolf Mother, my Thunderers, a Magic Archer, and a Cleaver. Almost all lost due to a lack of discipline and once a misclick. On the other hand, I really like how that and the camp roulette system forced me to be creative with my army (ended up having e.g. a Devourer to spearhead river crossings and a cute lil Witch Doctor for additional buffs and a clutch petrify or two).
My favorite unit was easily Dolos (Shackles of Pain felt almost like cheating whenever I used it both offensively and defensively). Hilariously I had Ailsa visit 3 cursed Blood Oaks in Krell's Tower and she got 2 Lifelong Curses but also Pathfinder, after which that was her primary purpose (as well casting Speed of Wind, Spirit Vision, and Ancestor's Guidance) as she was too fragile to use for her intended purpose in offense (i.e. the Summon Mists plus Chain Lightning combo, due to the short range of the latter).
If I could make a director's cut of the Invasion campaign I'd make some of the larger maps literally half the size (papering over map size with speed shrines doesn't cut it), and also add a limit to the size of the army the player could deploy in some scenarios (though I found the forced split up of forces worked well where it was employed, outside of a couple of the swamp levels). Also, I'd make enemy reinforcements timer, not objective, triggered (I learned to deliberately clear maps or at least secure my surroundings and heal up before taking objectives)
I liked the first half of Invasion more than the first half of Empire Aflame, though they are comparable (and it may have been due to my difficulty settings), and invasion's second half more than Empire Aflame's Filos route, though it still remains possible the Moira route might be superior to the latter half of Invasion. Guess I need to find out, but it won't be an apples to apples comparison, as I'm going to crank the difficulty up to General.
1894 score, 25 out of 27 scenarios completed on time.
Absolutely steamrolled the last two scenarios, so it felt kind of anti-climatic in that regard.
I really loved the campaign before you got to the Lizardfolk lands, and then it was only so-so afterwards, more a test of patience and discipline (reminded me a lot of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, in that regard), with some nice set pieces (Shrouded Hills' assault through the fog on the castle, There and Back Again's defense of the river crossing, Dragon Isles' island forts, Bay of Kyrios' undead horde in the poison fog), and even some nice adventuring (the first time you play a swamp level, all the Harpy towers in Princess Marcra), but only one or two scenarios posing any threat of a loss and therefore providing any genuine excitement.
I lost a lot of good, expensive units but always had just enough resources to recover, though sometimes I'd need to be creative about it. The ones that gutted me the most were Ulnar, my Wolf Mother, my Thunderers, a Magic Archer, and a Cleaver. Almost all lost due to a lack of discipline and once a misclick. On the other hand, I really like how that and the camp roulette system forced me to be creative with my army (ended up having e.g. a Devourer to spearhead river crossings and a cute lil Witch Doctor for additional buffs and a clutch petrify or two).
My favorite unit was easily Dolos (Shackles of Pain felt almost like cheating whenever I used it both offensively and defensively). Hilariously I had Ailsa visit 3 cursed Blood Oaks in Krell's Tower and she got 2 Lifelong Curses but also Pathfinder, after which that was her primary purpose (as well casting Speed of Wind, Spirit Vision, and Ancestor's Guidance) as she was too fragile to use for her intended purpose in offense (i.e. the Summon Mists plus Chain Lightning combo, due to the short range of the latter).
If I could make a director's cut of the Invasion campaign I'd make some of the larger maps literally half the size (papering over map size with speed shrines doesn't cut it), and also add a limit to the size of the army the player could deploy in some scenarios (though I found the forced split up of forces worked well where it was employed, outside of a couple of the swamp levels). Also, I'd make enemy reinforcements timer, not objective, triggered (I learned to deliberately clear maps or at least secure my surroundings and heal up before taking objectives)
I liked the first half of Invasion more than the first half of Empire Aflame, though they are comparable (and it may have been due to my difficulty settings), and invasion's second half more than Empire Aflame's Filos route, though it still remains possible the Moira route might be superior to the latter half of Invasion. Guess I need to find out, but it won't be an apples to apples comparison, as I'm going to crank the difficulty up to General.
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