Favorite game mechanic you wish more RPGs would use?

[shihonage]

Hey dude. Give me a salary, so I can give my manager the finger, quit my job and work on games full-time, then I'll put in the cover system. Problem solved.

 

[PorkaMorka]

It is probably more trouble than it is worth, but I am really interested in mechanics that in some way try to simulate reality (or a fantastic reality) in a turn based environment.

For example, in looking at the actual performance of a tank to determine the stats, rather than just making up the stats based on what seems like fun.

Or just something as simple as looking at actual performance of armor to figure out your armor system.

For some reason it really irritates me to see a generic swordsman with no magical ability shooting energy bolts from his sword and healing himself.

I think of combat in CRPGs as being one of the tools in the game. Not necessarily the main tool. The idea of combat-centric CRPG must die.

The issue is that paradigms exist to turn combat into an thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game .

Paradigms don't really exist to turn stat checks, selecting dialog options and reading text into a similarly thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game. You may end up with a good story, but the actual game ends up rather crippled. IE: Select the dialog option that "looks right", plan ahead to have the skills you need to get through an encounter using a skill check, etc. At most you may find a few puzzles for the player, but they're crippled compared to what you'd find in an adventure game.

 

[flabbyjack]

Random encounters
Rape

 

[shihonage]

I think of combat in CRPGs as being one of the tools in the game. Not necessarily the main tool. The idea of combat-centric CRPG must die.

The issue is that paradigms exist to turn combat into an thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game .

Paradigms don't really exist to turn stat checks, selecting dialog options and reading text into a similarly thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game. You may end up with a good story, but the actual game ends up rather crippled. IE: Select the dialog option that "looks right", plan ahead to have the skills you need to get through an encounter using a skill check, etc. At most you may find a few puzzles for the player, but they're crippled compared to what you'd find in an adventure game.

As I said before, I don't want to eliminate combat entirely. It's nigh-impossible, and would remove one of the important gameplay mechanics.

But I disagree with the claim that models do not exist that would turn a combat-less game into something fun. It all depends on how reactive the world is to your actions, and how willing you are to take risks with beefing up the "traditional" mechanics.

It's better to try and expand those, than leave them rotting in the "low expectations realm" and then keep enhancing combat with various bling, further making it take over the game.

For instance, I'm trying to make dialogue into an actual game. Like a primitive card game, really. And breaking into/hacking objects is a multistep process that varies from object to object, and it mildly branches.

I want to go beyond the narrow-vision offload-everything-on-combat framework. I want the player to be able to create a medic character and actually feel like a healer in a desolate, needy realm, instead of being stuck within combat-be-all framework and merely healing your party "better" while doing the same exact shit as all other potential char. builds.

 

[curry]

David Gaider's writing

 

[PorkaMorka]

...
But I disagree with the claim that models do not exist that would turn a combat-less game into something fun. It all depends on how reactive the world is to your actions, and how willing you are to take risks with beefing up the "traditional" mechanics.

It's better to try and expand those, than leave them rotting in the "low expectations realm" and then keep enhancing combat with various bling, further making it take over the game.

For instance, I'm trying to make dialogue into an actual game. Like a primitive card game, really. And breaking into/hacking objects is a multistep process that varies from object to object, and it mildly branches.
...

Well, I think you're right that it is conceptually possible to make non combat situations far more interesting in terms of gameplay than they have been in past games. I was just saying the models for doing so aren't very well established at all, while you have a lot of examples to work from when trying to come up with a good combat system.

Although, they did have an interesting way for handling debates in Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI, turning them into an actual game rather than just reading and selecting lines of text.

Anyway, it sounds like you have a good understand of the limitations of the traditional mechanics for handling noncombat situations so I'll be interested to see what you come up with to make noncombat situations more gameplay heavy.

 

[Joe Krow]

Transparency in the game mechanics. An opaque system renders most of your choices irrelevant. Is it better to have a +1 sword, more proficiency, or an additional point of strength? The "game" in rpg is seeing your attributes in action.

 

[Baron]

I can only think of Glottis.

 

[Davaris]

Excellent thread.

I like the idea of combat that is as deadly as in RL. I saw a military combat game a couple of years ago, where they had one shot one kill. If you went into an area you had to plan it out thoroughly, because if you put your head up at the wrong time, it would be curtains.

I also like the survival mechanic people mentioned before. However I have to say I didn't enjoy having to keep eating food, to survive in the games of the 1990s. It got pretty annoying always having to check your food.

So there should be a way to motivate you to do things without it being tedious. I think the survival aspect should encourage you to do things, that would go against your normal predilections. For instance a LG character, having to take work from underworld types, to pay his creditors would be interesting.

 

[chewie]

Excellent thread.

Indeed

I like the idea of combat that is as deadly as in RL. I saw a military combat game a couple of years ago, where they had one shot one kill. If you went into an area you had to plan it out thoroughly, because if you put your head up at the wrong time, it would be curtains.

I´m not sure if that works in a (c)rpg environment. Most of the actions in such a game involve a lot of micromanagement / planning and time (equipping the character, selecting the "right" skills & attributes, trade for a sufficient amount of medicine, coordinating party members / micro their equipment, char sheet etc). So after preparing your character / party, you walk out of town and encounter some grumpy soldiers, which initiate combat on sight and behead your character as their first action. Of course, this is a worst case scenario, but giving the combat modell such extreme mechanics, those things can happen. HP abstraction is a good way to avoid instant deaths, as it gives both the player and the ai a margin of error. Nevertheless combat should be tough - and loosing HPs shouldn´t be the only possible outcome of injuries. But wasting the players time (and force him to reload or loose his character entirely) because of one little mistake isn´t something I´d call fun.

Said military combat game likely just throws you into a level, fully equipped and your "only" task is to stay alive.

I also like the survival mechanic people mentioned before. However I have to say I didn't enjoy having to keep eating food, to survive in the games of the 1990s. It got pretty annoying always having to check your food.

So there should be a way to motivate you to do things without it being tedious. I think the survival aspect should encourage you to do things, that would go against your normal predilections. For instance a LG character, having to take work from underworld types, to pay his creditors would be interesting.

I found one possible solution for this, not sure if it works out as planned, but I´ll implement it in my crpg project:

Instead of maintaining timers which constantly raise a characters hunger, thirst and sleep levels you one could take a similar approach to combat mechanics (e.g. weapon reloading, healing etc). Its all about the level of detail of the simulation. E.g. a character won´t loose hitpoints while walking through a town and stepping into a nail or bumbing into another person. Thus, the current simulation level of crpgs don´t force characters to constantly regulate their hitpoints / health level. But funny enough, they do it for hunger / thirst / sleep - and with linear progression.

My approach would be to combine travel and survival system, so travelling becomes the "combat part" of hunger / thirst / sleep levels. Travelling distances always needs preparation in terms of food and water supplies, huge distances require breaks to set up camp for getting some sleep. Crossing harsh regions (like deserts) will require more food / water as moving a similar distance through a nice forest etc. Characters attributes and skills also affect the "need calculation" in both ways, even before the journey begins: talking to npcs could give you a faster / saver route to your target etc...

Main design goal is to get rid of constant annoyances and turn them into a "useful" part of the game. Want to travel from Hub to Glow? -> Rent a Brahmin and buy a shitload of provisions - or die horribly because of dehydration / starvation. (or radiation )
Secondary goal is to make distances more important ("immersive") again - it´s ridiculous to move from Hub to Boneyard just to deliver a book, then go back to the Hub and do <other shit>.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

My approach

bro what about equipped armor and combat exertion?

taking factors into account like certain armor being lightweight but dissipating heat poorly so you get less fatigued but a lot more thirsty

and then melee fighting versus ranged combat with the environment exacerbating the toil, I always thought the former should tire you out a lot faster as well as using up your hunger and thirst 'units'

and then there's day and night differences, where you might toggle 'travel at night only' options which would lengthen time but probably have an overall drop in rations consumption over difficult terrain or deserts

I'm taking this too far for your game aren't I

 

[Archibald]

Offensive capabilities being influenced by characters current health. I really hate when some fag with 0.5% of his max hp remaining goes on to do some super whirlwind attack that gets 10 people killed. Old jrpg Kartia had something like this, if for example you had only 50% health remaining then you`d only do 50% damage with your attacks. So characters with ~10% of max hp become just a roadblocks and i kinda enjoyed that.

 

[Vibalist]

Friendly fire
Penalties for rest

Make the player select one or two of his party to stand watch. In a 4 person party, if 1 person stands watch, he won't regen HP at all, and if 2 person stands watch, both will only regen 50% of HP. If 3 person stands watch, each will regen 75% of HP, etc.

And if all 4 stand watch, they'll regen 100% of their hp? :/

 

[sgc_meltdown]

And if all 4 stand watch, they'll regen 100% of their hp? :/

yeah, standing watch should be kept to a flat penalty with exponential chance of getting surprised by/getting the better of enemy encounters with each additional set of eyes

unless you want to implement some kind of cuddling while keeping watch option that lowers visual detection radius a lot and hearing somewhat

 

[Bulba]

decent sex(IE not ME2 or DAO),

contrary to popular belief its more realistic to have lots of it than none(rockstars and celebrities in real life have hundreds of girls throwing themselves at them hell you'll get that just for being rich or famous and to a lesser extent for being good looking, what do you think that the savior of the world or some kind of destined hero or the avatar(like the last airbender or like in ultima) or a religious diety or something would get?), not to mention its not easy to find volentarily(IE they choose not to rather than an inability to get laid) chaste teenagers/young adults yet those are exactly what 99% of game characters are

mass effect 1 had it best(except no groupies and no prostitutes although the latter isnt that important) because there was decent nudity(some ass and some side boob) yet it was non-explicit so it didnt get AO rated

ME2 and DAO sucked(who has clothes on WHILE they do it? and oh god i hope that the youtube clips of ME2 sex scenes had all the good stuff cut for youtube censoring policies or else.... oh dear god i saw better sex scenes on daytime television for christs sake)

EDIT: the miranda sex scene in ME2 wasnt as bad as i remembered, still not as good as ME1 though the tali scene was horendous though

Why would anyone whant to whatch/experiece sex in a game RPG? it wasn't all that fun in fallout and did not get any better in any other game.
Games are made to be played, while if you whant to see some sex - download some porn.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Agreed, Bulba.

Even if the stuff was only optional, why the hell is it there. Unless you consider masturbation gameplay, these "scenes" have no value to the game. And for the people who keep suggesting rape, do you need some psychiatric help or maybe you who keep making these suggestions are just a bunch of simulate everything shitheads.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Just gunning down people gets kinda boring after doing it a zillion of times. We need some new thrills.

 

[Wunderpurps]

I think of combat in CRPGs as being one of the tools in the game. Not necessarily the main tool. The idea of combat-centric CRPG must die.

The issue is that paradigms exist to turn combat into an thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game .

Paradigms don't really exist to turn stat checks, selecting dialog options and reading text into a similarly thoughtful, challenging and rewarding game. You may end up with a good story, but the actual game ends up rather crippled. IE: Select the dialog option that "looks right", plan ahead to have the skills you need to get through an encounter using a skill check, etc. At most you may find a few puzzles for the player, but they're crippled compared to what you'd find in an adventure game.

As I said before, I don't want to eliminate combat entirely. It's nigh-impossible, and would remove one of the important gameplay mechanics.

But I disagree with the claim that models do not exist that would turn a combat-less game into something fun. It all depends on how reactive the world is to your actions, and how willing you are to take risks with beefing up the "traditional" mechanics.

It's better to try and expand those, than leave them rotting in the "low expectations realm" and then keep enhancing combat with various bling, further making it take over the game.

For instance, I'm trying to make dialogue into an actual game. Like a primitive card game, really. And breaking into/hacking objects is a multistep process that varies from object to object, and it mildly branches.

I want to go beyond the narrow-vision offload-everything-on-combat framework. I want the player to be able to create a medic character and actually feel like a healer in a desolate, needy realm, instead of being stuck within combat-be-all framework and merely healing your party "better" while doing the same exact shit as all other potential char. builds.

So instead of making a game that does a couple things good you are going to make a world of games with infinite possibilities!

Well, good luck.

 

[Deneidez]

Agreed, Bulba.

Even if the stuff was only optional, why the hell is it there. Unless you consider masturbation gameplay, these "scenes" have no value to the game. And for the people who keep suggesting rape, do you need some psychiatric help or maybe you who keep making these suggestions are just a bunch of simulate everything shitheads.

What if it is mandatory part of the game? Like you have to have sex to make children and to survive as family/dynasty. Well, of course you can do it like in sims and guild 2.

 

[kofeur]

This thread was a very good read.

On Magic:

like the drones in Dungeon Master II. You summon a small flying drone that you could use as a scout, to push levers, open doors, fly over holes in the ground, etc... It made for a lot of interesting puzzles

Flight spells: It was a lot of fun in MM6

Actually useful summoning spells: There was an old game on amiga, can't remember the name at all in which you played a summoner. The most powerful summon was the dragon, but you have to find really rare ingredients to be able summon them. If you managed to find the ingredients you were really rewarded. It had a bat summon which was the most useful spell because it allowed you to scout the map and look for said ingredients for more powerful summons.

No retarded spell effects, i.e no meteor storm or summon lightning in a dungeon!

But on the other hand spells that change with the environment. In Dark Queen of Krynn, the lightning bolt had an area effect underwater and fireball would fizzle when you tried to cast it.

Identifying items?

This could be quite interesting. It should be more difficult to identify obscure items, but that doesn't necessary mean that obscure magical items are more powerful. It is just obscure because it is less well known.
And speaking of artefacts that are commonly known like say excalibur... how can you be sure it's the real deal or it's a fake?

Identifying an item should be a mixture of magic and skills. Using magic you could probe the item to see how much 'magic' there is in there, but that wouldn't get you very far. Because some object could have high mana and still be very weak. So you would also need an identify skill which is a mixture of knowledge and testing (ie putting acid on the object to see if it would be damaged or not, etc...)

So that raise interesting choices: do I invest more on identifying the object knowing it could turn out to be really useless or even being destroyed by the identify process?

One question, can you use all of an object's power without knowing them just by trial and error or not? Could be interesting that you discover more about an object as you use it (you would have a kind of affinity level with specific magical weapons)

 

[Bobtheblob]

Not so much a mechanic, but I love text descriptions of the enviroment. Graphics alone cannot set a mood correctly, you need to be able to examine your surroundings and find something that hints to more than what you can see.

+1 to this.

One reason Fallout sticks out in my mind for atmosphere were those little text descriptions on everything.

Ignored for far too long in AAA titles.