Interview Feargus talks Obsidian at IGN

[Drakron]

And its as rare as rock teeth ... or ZOE 2.

 

[EvoG]

Seriously, did anyone actually play ICO? That game is as much art as any fucking painting or poem. Another game I would nominate as art is Planescape fucking Torment, and who could disagree with that? Kojima has said that he doesn't consider the MGS series art, and I would agree, although that doesn't mean it's any less good. The MGS series is very post-modern.

Don't worry aweigh, I got your back on this one. ICO was exceptional and Shadow of the Colossus is just amazing. MGS3 has such an incredible presentation, as I write this I'm hearing the rather somber song in my head and thinking of the last hour of the game. Its one of those moments that completes the experience, solidifying and giving meaning to everything you've been doing(in the game). Few are capable of that. God of War is another. Psychonauts is very creative, well written and genuinely funny.

When games are at the best of what the medium offers, like any other, it is art, absolutely. The simple fact that what art is is completely and entirely nebulous, subjective and ultimately arbitrary. WE decide if something is art, as its what suits our sensibilites for the medium. Judged by peers, by the person viewing the piece and by a consensus, games can of course be art.

If you dont like that, decide for yourself.

 

[Zomg]

Ico is criminally overrated. It's a perfectly linear puzzle/adventure game, with moderately fun puzzles and exactly one novel element, a mostly inert companion. The narrative is indistinct, and affecting in only a couple of places. It has gotten a good reputation because it's difficult to insult and esoteric, and in a few years no one will remember it.

PS:T is genuinely good, but you have to understand the D&D idiom to "get it" and it has many shitty and/or pandering parts, so people are less inclined to hold it up as a shining example. Fallout is even worse in that regard, between wearing its influences on its shoulder and being riddled with silliness and in-jokes.

I hate the art argument. I'm in the optimistic, "quality will tell" crowd, I guess. What are people going to remember in a hundred years, Dan Brown, David Eggers, or H.P. Lovecraft? Which one of those was unbelievably obscure when first printed, in a genre that disgusts critics and academics? Which one will sell the most copies and be read the most over the long run? Fighting over the definition is just killing time.

 

[EvoG]

Lots of people say Ico is overrated, including a recent top 10 print. There seems to be two and only two crowds...those that love it, and those that think, indeed it is overrated. Thats a rather unique position for the game to be in, as, people dont just decide a game is great arbitrarily.

It genuinely is outstanding for the way it makes you feel, unfortunately, only a handful of people will respond to it as such, and thats the conundrum. The vastness of the ancient, eerily silent castle with its sun bleached graphics, to the fate left for you as the player, imprisoned in its walls. The curiosity of sharing perhaps a similar fate with a ghostly figure with which you form an intimacy that most games don't approach, simply due to the mechanic of gameplay, not because they can't. Animation was brilliant and soulful, exuding a charisma of determination but innocence. I don't know what it is. I saw it on the shelf at Blockbuster a few years ago, and recalled my friend playing it when it was released. He was a fan immediately, and while I enjoyed what I saw, it was him playing, so it left less of an impression. Renting it, and actually exploring at my pace, thats when it hit me. So I was late to the party so to speak, yet it did its magic, so its the real deal for sure, just not for everyone, but certainly not overrated by any stretch. That's reserved for games like PDZ, which is a genuine derivative piece of shit, yet people are fawning over it why?

 

[aweigh]

Well I won't try to dissuade you ZOMG, as I'm not here to push any agenda, but I agree with EvoG: as with all art, it is entrely subjective, and some people will love it and some won't. I hate Don Quijote with a passion you could not even begin to measure yet it's considered the most important literary effort in the history of mankind. Anyway, I really really really need to play Psychonauts! I've always ignored because it seemed too platform-y but from all the praise it's received here I guess I'll need to look into it. I orignally ignored it because it got the usual hype-machine from the gaming sites; "We're not allowed to express our real opinions because we're sycophantic media hounds slobbering over developer dick, but just this one time we're all gonna agree to say this game is a masterpiece because it's supposed to be different!"

 

[S4ur0n27]

"Don't frustrate the player. If there's any one thing that should pervade every form of game design it's that you shouldn't make the player fight the game."

Ah, it explains why NWN and KOTOR are such easy games.

 

[Greatatlantic]

"Don't frustrate the player. If there's any one thing that should pervade every form of game design it's that you shouldn't make the player fight the game."

Ah, it explains why NWN and KOTOR are such easy games.

Thats a good Point. Feargus, the Sith Lords was so exceptionally easy it frustrated me. I had all these character building options at my disposal, but none of them mattered since the game offered little to no challenge, even on the hardest difficulty setting. Whats the point of having to choose between various powers to create a cohesive team strategy, when you can just sit back and let the AI win battle for you? That is frustration. Meanwhile, there is a history of difficult but rewarding games getting a lot of critica and consumerl praise, Mike Tyson's Punch Out comes to mind. Look, I understand what you mean in terms of interface or overwhelming complexity being frustrating, but you should have started with a default difficulty much higher, and then used the difficulty meter to nerf it for the people who absolutely can't handle a challenge which you seem to want to pander to. Remember, NWN2 will mostly be purchased by CRPG and PnP nerds, don't worry about whether or not its to challenging.

 

[DorrieB]

I hate Don Quijote with a passion

You poor, poor soul. 'En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme, no ha mucho tiempo vivia un hidalgo de los de lanza en astillero, rocin flaco, y galgo corredor.' Did they ruin it for you at school? Away and give it another chance, now you're older.

Sadly, I don't have a PS2 or any of those things. I'll see if I can borrow one, from somewhere, and look for the game. Sounds brilliant.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I don't mind the 'entertainment' moniker, but it does bother me how he uses it as a blanket term. I'm not a fan of how the gaming industry now takes this Hollywood approach of trying to make a blockbuster 'everything for everyone' game.

At least when he was at BIS they seemed to recognise that that isn't the way. Look at how the Infinity Engine was used - in a middle of the road, traditional RPG (BG), a quirky, reading intensive, cerebral RPG (PS:T), and a dumbed-down, cash cow diablo competitor (IWD). There was no secret what these games were about, the motive behind them and the target audience.

 

[bryce777]

Well, you shouldn't fight the GAME, you should fight the opponents in the game. A game with absolutely no challenge is just a (really shitty low budget) movie.

 

[aweigh]

I hate Don Quijote with a passion

You poor, poor soul. 'En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme, no ha mucho tiempo vivia un hidalgo de los de lanza en astillero, rocin flaco, y galgo corredor.' Did they ruin it for you at school? Away and give it another chance, now you're older.

Sadly, I don't have a PS2 or any of those things. I'll see if I can borrow one, from somewhere, and look for the game. Sounds brilliant.

It's a combination of two things:
1) They ruined it for me when I had to read it for a literature course, and I hated the professor.
2) At the time I didn't really have the patience to put up with it, and I didn't want to get cliff notes.

Unlike ZomG, I recognize its literary merits, and don't try to diminish them by saying something stupid like "oh, it's so criminally overrated lolz!!!", instead I just stick with "I'm too dumb for it".

The most recent reading I've been doing is Memorias de mis putas tristes de G. G. Marquez y Felices dias Tio Sergio de Magali Ramis. Me encantaron ambos y me dieron ganas de revisitar 100 años de soledad otra vez. El problema que siempre he tenido con el Quijote es que nunca le di una oportunidad justa debido a las circumstancias particulares, y mientras pasa el tiempo lo considero mas y mas pretencioso. En todo caso, algun dia lo leere, es algo inevitable para todo hispanoparlante.

Ah, as for the games you only need the PS2. As far as I know Psychonauts was released on it, and that's where I'm planning on playing it when I rent it. And of course, Ico is definitely out on PS2, as it is an exclusive title.

 

[Zomg]

Unlike ZomG, I recognize the work's literary accomplishments and don't try to dimish them by saying something stupid like "oh, it's so criminally overrated lolz!!!", instead I just stick with "I'm too dumb for it".

Hey now, don't be a backhanded dick, sneaking insults. Engage me on Ico if you want to defend it.

 

[aweigh]

I SAID I'M NOT ON HERE TO PUSH AN AGENDA!!!!!

 

[Zomg]

It genuinely is outstanding for the way it makes you feel, unfortunately, only a handful of people will respond to it as such, and thats the conundrum. The vastness of the ancient, eerily silent castle with its sun bleached graphics, to the fate left for you as the player, imprisoned in its walls. The curiosity of sharing perhaps a similar fate with a ghostly figure with which you form an intimacy that most games don't approach, simply due to the mechanic of gameplay, not because they can't. Animation was brilliant and soulful, exuding a charisma of determination but innocence. I don't know what it is.

I enjoyed it quite a bit, and I found many touches and animations quite affecting - the way Yorda would struggle bravely to make long jumps, for instance. But the actual gameplay was a series of puzzles no more interesting or less linear than going through a series of Sokoban levels, plus trivial combat, and it must wear on people who are in it for the emotional payload. The narrative gets far too many points for being indistinct.

(Ico Spoiler)
]I smiled when I found Yorda on the beach, but... what?
(/spoiler)

That's reserved for games like PDZ, which is a genuine derivative piece of shit, yet people are fawning over it why?

I call Ico overrated because, when the "games as art" or "best game of all time" subjects come up, it is inevitably introduced. It's the same reason people will call a Pulitzer Prize nominee overrated when The DaVinci Code has sold ten million copies. I can respect the argument that I simply wasn't sufficiently drawn into the game emotionally, for unknown reasons, however.

Here's where I would tout Ico: As a game for someone who doesn't normally play video games and disdains them. It relies on few gameplay cliches, does not pander, has attractive art design, and has an eye towards evoking emotion. It is the perfect "Girlfriend game."

I SAID I'M NOT ON HERE TO PUSH AN AGENDA!!!!!

Fair enough, but don't couch implict insults towards me in your responses to others.

 

[aweigh]

I'll couch whatever the fuck I want. There's no use in arguing with you about Ico because I respect your opinion about it, agree with most of your points, and I have no desire to change your attitude concerning the game. However, that is completely irrelevant to what I write to other people, and what you decide to take from it. The latter is your business and none of mine.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

I'd agree with Volourn if he added sculpture to his list. Games can contain art, but they aren't themselves art.

 

[DorrieB]

El problema que siempre he tenido con el Quijote es que nunca le di una oportunidad justa debido a las circumstancias particulares, y mientras pasa el tiempo lo considero mas y mas pretencioso. En todo caso, algun dia lo leere, es algo inevitable para todo hispanoparlante.

Pretencioso, para nada. Al contrario. Te la creo que sea dificil por el español antiguo, pero te juro que ni tanto. No dejes que te echen a perder el libro mas hermoso de la literatura por culpa de un pinche maestro chaqueto.

(trans., it's only polite): (El Quijote) isn't pretentious at all; on the contrary. Difficult maybe, because of the archaic language, but even that not so much. Don't let some bastard useless teacher turn you off from the most beautiful book in all of world literature.

And that's me done de-railing this thread, sorry. I just couldn't let it slide about Don Quijote.

 

[kingcomrade]

Don't let some bastard useless teacher turn you off from the most beautiful book in all of world literature.

I can't count the number of times I've said that in my life. More than I have fingers and toes, at least.