Interview Feargus talks TVG ear off

[Old Scratch]

With the exception of Bloodlines, Troika created their games from scratch, Obsidian basically only had to make a professional mod of an exsisting game. The fact is, when a company gets in the habit of trying to rush a game, the quality of it is bound to suffer.

Temple of Elemental Evil was based on the module of the same name by Gary Gygax and was set within D&D 3.5e. I'd hardly call that creating a game from scratch, especially considering how they followed the module to the letter. They didn't exactly innovate the storyline.

Not too mention that I'm pretty sure the ToEE engine was built off of the Arcanum engine, so to say ToEE was created "from scratch" is absurd.

I meant they created the tech themselves, shnookums. Invictus was right about having borrowed the Gygax module though. Troika may not have been the best example to use.

 

[Azarkon]

When I spoke of writing, that encompassed all aspects of it as they're presented in within the game. Dialogue, plot, characters, the history behind locations, as well as the technical proficiency, style, etc.. They all struck me as being unexceptional to bland.

Most arguments on the internet are over ambiguous semantics, so I'm not surprised that it's the case here. Your original example of "go kill 600 ghost orcs lolz!" (paraphrased) was what I responded to. I was not being patronizing in pointing out that you might be confusing quest design and writing: that's genuinely the impression you gave off in your description of what was wrong with IWD's writing.

I won't belabor the point, though.

Obviously it's an opinion, based on past experience with games in the genre. Even if the technical aspects are adequate, if there's nothing interesting being presented by them, the writing ultimately fails to be interesting. Quantity is also worth noting when you start making comparisons to other games. Diablo 2 may have had exceptional writing, but there wasn't a whole lot there to measure, when you compare it to a game like Baldus Gate 2, Fallout, or even the random Final Fantasy game.

I'd dig up some of the dialogue/texts in IWD and compare them with the dialogue in BG or BG 2. Yes, IWD lacked quantity, but the writing was far from uninteresting. Consider the main quest, which you can get a summary of here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icewind_Dale#Plot_synopsis

There are enough twists and turns to the story than you'd expect from an action RPG. Compare IWD with, say, ToEE or POR or DAII... The story's alot better, but that can only be an opinion.

I do not mind it for new studios that are trying to get off the ground, but eventually to progress and be successful, developers need to start utilizing their own tech, art resources, combat and rules systems, etc.. If a developer is just going to slap on a story and a few other minor, unique, elements on someone elses game, then the game shouldn't be full price as far as I'm concerned, and most other people will see through that and stop buying those kinds of games at full price as well.

Well, many developers continue to use modified versions of the Unreal 3 engine for their games. I don't see this as a measure of their games' worth, but of progress: reinventing the wheel is both expensive and unnecessary. As far as combat and rule systems go, I'm of the same mind: why abandon D20 given the amount of work put into this system?

Developers get money from publishers, they often don't fund their own projects.

An important point here is that publishers are generally more willing to sponsor short projects than long ones. The game industry tends to be risk adverse except for a few major league companies.

That's true. There's a difference between using another developers engine and borrowing heavily from someone elses game though.

I don't think NWN 2 can be considered in the category of games that borrow heavily from someone else's game, given how much of its engine is rewritten, which in turn necessitates the redoing of most of its graphical assets as well.

Do you not think part of the reason they were sub-par was because they were rushed games? Maybe they have learned their lesson, that's what I'm hoping, but Feargus often implies otherwise in interviews.

They were rushed games AND they were built ontop of outdated technology. I see neither indication with Obsidian's post-KOTOR 2 games. If you're right and NWN 2 is a rushed POS then yes, you'll have your point and Feargus will be to blame. But what if Obsidian manages to pull off a decent game? Spend 36 monthes developing a game, and you're paying that much more in development costs; spend 18 monthes, and even if your game sells only half as much, you'll still likely make a profit.

I think we have a tendency to underestimate the amount of profits earned by games that are merely average. We look at Titanic and marvel at its box office, but Blair Wtich Project was just as much impressive a success story. Most game companies don't make a living developing revolutionary games, but average ones that you've likely never heard of (ie movie franchise games). And that's okay - because they don't spend 4-5 years and millions of dollars developing them, either.

The market is a lot different than it is now. A game can't sell merely a hundred thousand units and keep a company afloat anymore. I'm glad you mentioned those studios though, as they're a perfect example of how churning out half-cocked sequels with fast development cycles will lead to an inevitable demise in todays market. As far as I remember, Ultima IX sold for shit and I don't even remember hearing much about the last non-heroes M&M game, except that it was pretty much the same as it's predecessor, only you character was some gothy lookin' kook.

Actually, I think the Ultima series got hamstringed by the advent of UO. Not sure about M&M - the company that was making it, I believe, went bankrupt after HOMM4, which was an attempt to do something different that blew up in their faces. I'm not saying that if you make the same games with the same engines they'll continue to sell - but that you can produce quality games with up-to-date engines without trying to reinvent the wheel and taking 4+ year development cycles. The FF series is an obvious example of a franchise that, despite a lack of real significant gameplay innovations (or at least those that *improved* the gameplay), continued to sell merely as a result of improved graphics and new stories. Sure, they have high production qualities, but Square Enix still manages to pump them out one every two years - though that's likely a result of their multiple team infrastructure.

Best point you have made so far, though I'm not sure that was really his meaning. This is an industry of risks though, I just do not see a small development studio being financially successful by trying to play it so safe, especially when the quality of your products is going to suffer for it.

I guess we'll see. Personally, I believe that alot of gamers just want more of the same sort of gameplay packaged with a different story, new art, and new challenges (maybe throw in a couple of new features). Hence the reason for sequels doing so well.

And this is just my opinion but... If Obsidian can produce just "good" CRPGs with only satisfactory production qualities, you won't see me complaining. Better some professional CRPGs than none at all.

Of course, if they can revolutionize the CRPG industry, I'd be delighted. But hope and expectation are two different things.

 

[Sammael]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icewind_Dale#Plot_synopsis

Gah. Sawyer must have written that synopsis just to irk me. I had to fix all references of "abyss" and "demon" connected to Belhifet to the proper "Nine Hells" and "devil."

 

[Psilon]

Why abandon D20? Simple. It's a system designed for pen-and-paper bookkeeping for physical miniatures on a grid, aided by innumerable ad hoc modifiers from a GM. It's not optimized for PCs, and it's definitely not designed for pseudo-RT combat as in the Infinity/NWN games.

Attacks of Opportunity, for one, do not need to exist in RT. The enemy wizard is already locked into his casting animation, so just walk up and hit him. No extra rolls needed, and no need for a cap on AoOs--your own attack animations slow things down enough.

 

[Fighter]

"kotor 2 > kotor"

Only an idiot thinks that.

KOTOR2 had a superior storyline despite the shortcommings...

 

[aweigh]

Kotor2 rapes Kotor1 like K2 was roqua and K1 was whitey.

Anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

 

[Volourn]

"KOTOR2 had a superior storyline despite the shortcommings..."

No it dosn't.

 

[aweigh]

Yep, it does. TU BAD FOR U.

 

[tilting_msh]

I meant they created the tech themselves, shnookums. Invictus was right about having borrowed the Gygax module though. Troika may not have been the best example to use.

So was ToEE created "from scratch" then if the engine was built around an exisiting one? No it wasn't, sweety-pie.

 

[One Wolf]

People who quote Jung are usually rapist, just like people who cite freud are often pedophiles.

well, i'm off to ravage some kids.