Interview Feargus Urquhart and Fredrik Wester on the Pillars of Eternity distribution deal

[Onholyservicebound]

Maybe RPS is on drugs
One of my cousins used to do heavy drugs and at one point showed up at my home saying she had nowhere to stay, while she was over she kept talking about imaginary bugs all over her body and was trying to scratch at them.

Point is, someone seeing imaginary bugs is never a good sign.

 

[crawlkill]

I was a little confused about distribution on what was from the first looking like a sensible digital-only release, but I guess it makes a little more sense if the partner's throwing in some much-needed QA. does seem to be a major weak spot for Obsidian.

 

[Misconnected]

Actually, that's a common sign of stimulant-induced psychosis. Not something you usually see with 'heavy' drugs.

 

[Kem0sabe]

There's a lot of misconceptions about self medication, never seen any bugs myself.

Also, fuck them for going with Paradox, one of the biggest nickle and dime DLC publishers out there, besides the more obvious ones...

 

[Misconnected]

There's a lot of misconceptions about self medication, never seen any bugs myself.

It's not at all common, but I suppose it's sufficiently messed up to have become one of those common knowledge druggie horror stories.

Also, fuck them for going with Paradox, one of the biggest nickle and dime DLC publishers out there, besides the more obvious ones...

That I don't mind at all. Pdox has a fairly long history of fantastic support and pretty regular "get all of our massively overpriced DLC as a cheapo £5'ish bundle." I can totally get behind that.

 

[ghostdog]

I'm fine with everything except for the fact that paradox is providing QA. Obsidian has a history of buggy games and paradox has a history of even buggier games. The fact that they eventually provide patches isn't, in any way, in their favor. They release buggy games and let their customers be their testers.

 

[Xor]

That was pretty much always going to be the case; remember PoE had donation levels for beta and alpha access.

Edit: corrected

 

[Korron]

I just hope this doesn't mean I get a DVD case with a steam activation code on a disc. I want my box copy to be a traditional old-school box with a DRM free disk. I don't know if this was ever mentioned specifically in the KS project, but the concept art on their KS page certainly suggested it would be the latter. I can see the DVD with steam key being the preferred route for any publisher, but I would have never dropped $65 on this if that was the case.

 

[twincast]

I just hope this doesn't mean I get a DVD case with a steam activation code on a disc. I want my box copy to be a traditional old-school box with a DRM free disk. I don't know if this was ever mentioned specifically in the KS project, but the concept art on their KS page certainly suggested it would be the latter. I can see the DVD with steam key being the preferred route for any publisher, but I would have never dropped $65 on this if that was the case.

Yep, exactly the one and only thing I'm worried about regarding this news since Paradox changed from properly DRM-free to Steam-only. I've only seen Obsidian reaffirm a GOG release but nothing about the game disk, although I admittedly have yet to actually look around much for forum posts on this.

 

[Roguey]

I just hope this doesn't mean I get a DVD case with a steam activation code on a disc. I want my box copy to be a traditional old-school box with a DRM free disk. I don't know if this was ever mentioned specifically in the KS project, but the concept art on their KS page certainly suggested it would be the latter. I can see the DVD with steam key being the preferred route for any publisher, but I would have never dropped $65 on this if that was the case.

Yep, exactly the one and only thing I'm worried about regarding this news since Paradox changed from properly DRM-free to Steam-only. I've only seen Obsidian reaffirm a GOG release but nothing about the game disk, although I admittedly have yet to actually look around much for forum posts on this.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65751-pillars-of-eternity-–-partnership-faq-for-backers/page-7#entry1431605

It isn't a specific issue that has come up, but the physical copy shouldn't require Steam. We are releasing DRM-free builds, so the physical disks will probably be DRM-free or have a CD key. Something like that.

As an aside, dear Obsidian, CD keys are a waste of time. It's not the 90s anymore.

I'm fine with everything except for the fact that paradox is providing QA. Obsidian has a history of buggy games and paradox has a history of even buggier games. The fact that they eventually provide patches isn't, in any way, in their favor. They release buggy games and let their customers be their testers.

When it comes to testing, having more people do it doesn't hurt and can only help.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65751-pillars-of-eternity-–-partnership-faq-for-backers/page-8#entry1431638

QA responsibilities will be split between both companies. Obsidian has a dedicated QA lead for the project and will be hiring some additional QA in the coming months. Paradox will also be providing a slew of testers for the game.



We are running the QA process on our side (including full control over the issue database). The main changes are that Paradox will handle the QA for things like localization and compatibility testing - things that Obsidian would have to outsource anyways.



We are used to working with testing groups from around the world, so I don't expect that there will be many extra inefficiencies. Although, time delays always cause some inefficiencies.

 

[PatataFamilia]

I'm not fanatically against them using a publisher, because publishers still do provide valid services along with all the other shit. But, Obsidian could just clear up make things a lot easier on themselves by releasing the terms of the agreement. I understand their reticence to do so, but I still think it would fix a lot of ill will if they came out and said Paradox is getting 17% of the profit. If Paradox is getting 60% of the profit than yeah, Obsidian should be pilloried, but face it in public and then move on.

I am inclined to be against publishers entering kickstarters themselves, because it has the potential to turn a revolutionary system into something that is far worse than preorders.

Also, Grayson was a total ass in the interview. I wonder if he knows that he's a sub-par writer, and is trying to make up for it through phony aggression and ugly block-quotes in interviews.

 

[suejak]

I should feel bad for buying vegetables in a supermarket. If I wasn't incompetent at budgeting, I would have enough money to grow them myself

I still don't understand why people think this is a good argument. Selling a share of your potential profits to a publisher in exchange for the fulfillment of present needs is not in any universe similar to the opportunity-cost argument being made by Infinitron here.

Paying for vegetables rather than making them is standard division of labour. Having someone invest in your game on the promise that it will be profitable and they will get a share of those profits is not similar to this. Obsidian is in debt to Paradox for present services and must repay them with a successful product. This means that Paradox is investing in Obsidian and has a direct interest in ensuring that the game is successful.

The fact that so many of you think that's somehow comparable to simply hiring a service is mind-boggling.

 

[Xor]

Not all of us have business degrees. Like me, for example. Most of what I know on this subject comes from two semesters of economics, and I took those classes back in 2006.


Looking over your post again, though, I'm not really sure what your point is aside from people just generally being wrong.

 

[Rake]

The fact that so many of you think that's somehow comparable to simply hiring a service is mind-boggling.

It IS simply hiring a service. It just instead of "we will give you 500.000 to distibute and Market our game" was "we will let you keep 30% of the final product's profits in order to distibute and Market our game"
What you imply is that since Paradox has an investment to the product's final success, they have some kind of control over the game's creation. But Obsidian has said that isn't the case, and 100% of control is staying with Obsidian. So if anything, the deal was risky for Paradox ans heavily in favor of Obsidian.
Unless of cource they outright lied to us.

 

[suejak]

The fact that so many of you think that's somehow comparable to simply hiring a service is mind-boggling.

It IS simply hiring a service. It just instead of "we will give you 500.000 to distibute and Market our game" was "we will let you keep 30% of the final product's profits in order to distibute and Market our game".

No, it's not. It creates a vested interest for Paradox in the profitability and quality of the game. Simply hiring a service does not carry any such problems.

What you imply is that since Paradox has an investment to the product's final success, they have some kind of control over the game's creation. But Obsidian has said that isn't the case, and 100% of control is staying with Obsidian. So if anything, the deal was risky for Paradox ans heavily in favor of Obsidian.
Unless of cource they outright lied to us.

Yes, I suppose if Obsidian says they're 100% in control, that must be the case. Paradox's "opinionated people" with "lots of opinions" who are going to let Obsidian know if they think the game "isn't up to standard" are all just bug-reporters...??

Anyway, I know, I know. Even if Paradox gives opinions, Obsidian can just ignore them. Even if Paradox is heavily invested in the success of the game and Obsidian doesn't have the money to directly hire someone else.

 

[Monty]

It's quite amusing to read this thread now:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/publisher-exploiting-an-obsidian-kickstarter.76198/

Yes, the deal in its current state is very different, with Obsidian apparently keeping the majority of control and profits as they were negotiating from a position of strength (with backer funding already secured). So, again, Kickstarter is changing parts of the industry for the better.

But the Obsidian cheerleading in 2012 about the project remaining '100% Publisher Free' looks funny now.

 

[Smejki]

There's a lot of misconceptions about self medication, never seen any bugs myself.

Also, fuck them for going with Paradox, one of the biggest nickle and dime DLC publishers out there, besides the more obvious ones...

When I found out that vanilla EU4 contains all of the stuff that's in EU3 and even more I turned on my OK mode. Pdox is adding new stuff (and esthetic thingies) with DLCs not selling subtracted parts like some other companies.
Also the prices for vanillas drop quite quickly and DLCs are helluva cheap in special offers. No harm here.

 

[IDtenT]

So first the interviewer has to ask numerous questions about (alleged) bugs in South Park, and then he says this:

RPS: After so many missteps over the years with bugs, do you feel like you owe fans any sort of apology? Do you feel responsible, or perhaps like you’ve damaged your players’ trust?

Are you fucking kidding me? What an asshole. Criticism masquerading as an interview when this was supposed to be about the Paradox deal. Fuck this guy.

It's surprising that RPS can still get people to talk with them at all when they keep sending out people like Grayson. He's been acting similarly to both CDR and Blizzard in past interviews over his personal views on sexism.

Christ. The gaming industry must be the only one where interviewers are only marketing tools and not actual journalists. And the Codex supports this. What do you know...

 

[Infinitron]

and Obsidian doesn't have the money to directly hire someone else.

And this is where you fail.

Doesn't have the money? Have you forgotten that you're living in the era of Steam Early Access? If push came to shove, Obsidian could put the game on Steam tomorrow and earn a million dollars within 24 hours.

They've chosen to go this route even though they could have gone for the cheaper route that inXile did, with a physical distribution-only deal and primarily backer-provided QA. And Paradox knows this. They've got no leverage.

 

[suejak]

and Obsidian doesn't have the money to directly hire someone else.

And this is where you fail.

Doesn't have the money? Have you forgotten that you're living in the era of Steam Early Access? If push came to shove, Obsidian could put the game on Steam tomorrow and earn a million dollars within 24 hours.

They've chosen to go this route even though they could have gone for the route that inXile did, with a physical distribution-only deal and primarily backer-provided QA. And Paradox knows this. They've got no leverage.

Look, if it hurts your feelings that I'm implying Obsidian is bankrupt with nowhere to turn, you're misunderstanding. Your Steam Early Access thing is exactly what Double Fine did and everybody still says they "ran out of money." I can literally quote Double Fine fanboys from their forum who said they chose the route they did, with exactly the same italics.

The point is that they're out of Kickstarter money and were forced to look for other ways to finish the game. I'm just pointing out the trend -- Obsidian or Double Fine, they both spent all their money.

You're completely underplaying the nature and value of the service Paradox is offering. Not just distribution, not just professional QA, but marketing and most importantly Kickstarter pledge reward fulfillment. It's a big loan and Obsidian has an obligation to make sure they're repaid for it.

 

[Infinitron]

Look, if it hurts your feelings that I'm implying Obsidian is bankrupt with nowhere to turn, you're misunderstanding. Your Steam Early Access thing is exactly what Double Fine did and everybody still says they "ran out of money." I can literally quote Double Fine fanboys from their forum who said they chose the route they did, with exactly the same italics.

No, Double Fine got attacked because they split the game and because they were obviously making an AAA game far exceeding their original budget, not because they put it on Early Access. Wait, they actually didn't put it on Early Access so I don't even know what you're saying. And nice job completely ignoring the more obvious analogy, inXile inXile inXile inXile inXile.

Are you really going to let the Codex's reception of Broken Age motivate everything you do here now? Get over it, sheesh.

 

[IDtenT]

Obsidian apologists is not something new to the Codex.

 

[suejak]

No, Double Fine got attacked because they split the game, not because they put it on Early Access. Wait, they actually didn't put it on Early Access so I don't even know what you're saying. And nice job completely ignoring the more obvious analogy, inXile inXile inXile inXile inXile.

Are you really going to let the Codex's reception of Broken Age motivate everything you do here now? Get over it, sheesh.

There is literally nothing that differentiates the Double Fine release from Early Access except a label. In fact, they debated in the documentary over whether to call it "Early Access" or not, but decided against it because they thought they'd make more money outside of Early Access classification.

The Double Fine thing is literally only in this thread, to make a point, so I don't know what you're talking about there. Anyway, I have no idea what inXile has been up to. Did they run out of money and get a publisher too? I'd have to check it out.

 

[Infinitron]

Obsidian apologists is not something new to the Codex.

I should feel bad for buying vegetables in a supermarket. If I wasn't incompetent at budgeting, I would have enough money to grow them myself

IDtenT brofisted this

 

[suejak]

Maybe he was brofisting vegetables?