First Arcanum playthrough... disappointed :shrug:

[PorkaMorka]

I forced myself to beat Arcanum when it first came out, my guy was magic/melee so at least it didn't take a lot of effort.

It'd be one thing if the game just had bad combat, but character building was really broken too. Not broken as in a few obscure builds break the game, but as in many of the standard builds that people would be expected to pick break the game.

The game had a lot of solid content, but content alone doesn't make for a fun game when all the underlying systems are broken/terrible.

Arcanum was half of a good game. It's funny because the half of the game that sucks in Arcanum was done properly in TOEE and vice versa.

Combine the two games and you'd have the perfect CRPG... assuming you hired somebody to design some proper encounters for em anyway.

Seperately though, both games suck.

 

[someone else]

But why am I even trying.. this thread probably consists of 90% trolls and 10% newfags.

A wild Suckcanum fanboys appears!
Suckcanum fanboys probably consists of:
10% trolls
10% newfags
80% tasteless idiots who can't tell they are eating shit

Have fun balancing your Suckanum gunslinger while watching your half-ogre or any fighter party members beat the shit out of everything, why bother shooting at all other than to earn XP from damage to enemies.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I really tried to get into Arcanum, especially after enjoying Fallout, Fallout 2 and Vampire: Bloodlines. But it really is a bad game.

I got the ring, helped out the town's sheriff by taking on some bank robbers, talked my way past the thugs blocking the bridge, got to Tarant and went to the company who made the ring, persuaded my way in, got down into the basement and got killed by zombies. WTF?

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN ARCANUM

But really, what exactly is wrong with dieing on an unexpected fight now and then? Even in Fallout, playing as a diplomat wasn't a relaxing ride to the credits screen, you could eventually piss people off and have to fight.

Most of the skills are combat-related, even a diplomat should have something to fall back on in case there's no rat zombie diplomacy. For example, for the zombies you could just put a point in Explosives and molotov the shit out of that basement, there's plenty of raw materials on the trashcans around the city.

If you're really intent on playing a "CHA is definitely NOT my dump stat" pacifist character, you could have brought the ogre back in the town with the bank and the dwarf outside the company's door with you, plus Virgil. Or you could try and sneak by them, but I'm not sure if they would detect you.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah, of all the complaints about Arcanum voiced here, "I entered some basement and got killed by zombies, WTF" is the most ridiculous one. It's explained why there are zombies there, it's not just some random for the lulz enemy placement. Also they're not that hard to kill, especially with followers.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

And combat, coupled with the unparalleled character system is imo better than in most RPGs.

But then again, 90% people here are trolls, right?

Seriously, how dumb do you have to be to play the typical fantasy RPG "class" when something original is available.

Yeah, how dumb do you have to be to play the game in one of the two widely advertised ways. What's next, people playing Fallout as small guns based intelligent sniper?

And it's not like the magic is the only hilariously broken part of Arcanum's mechanic.

Still, your post is not as amusing as people claiming that it's super fun to scavenge trash bins to search for bullet components, because the ones you can find and buy aren't enough to kill a bunch of rats.

 

[baronjohn]

But why am I even trying.. this thread probably consists of 90% trolls and 10% newfags.

A wild Suckcanum fanboys appears!
Suckcanum fanboys probably consists of:
10% trolls
10% newfags
80% tasteless idiots who can't tell they are eating shit

Have fun balancing your Suckanum gunslinger while watching your half-ogre or any fighter party members beat the shit out of everything, why bother shooting at all other than to earn XP from damage to enemies.

Maybe you're just Mighty Suckage. I played the whole game with a solo gunslinger and it was a very powerful character.

 

[Johannes]

It's not a very powerful character. It might be powerful enough, and feel pretty awesome too once well leveled, but compared to most of your other options it just sucks in raw power.

 

[someone else]

Maybe you're just Mighty Suckage. I played the whole game with a solo gunslinger and it was a very powerful character.

Backup your words with numbers.
How many points does it take to make a strong melee/magic character? Use the same number of points and build a gunslinger. Compare their combat abilities.
Go one step further and build a gunsmither, then compare that to other builds.

Post your build and compare the damage per AP as well as money spent. Ignore tricks like using a fate point to pickpocket the handcanon in Tarant, or running off and getting the top weapons early.

Gunslingers are weaker because they invest in perception, which is weaker than strength, they also get weaker weapons while using up ammo, which has weight and costs $ or time to gather. Guns also require min strength to use and you don't get the extra damage bonus from pumping strength. Guns also hit friendlies and have range and obstacle penalties. This isn't a party friendly weapon.

The point isn't that gunslingers can't handle the enemy, they are comparatively weak. Why use guns when I can just stab with a fine steel dagger or balanced sword that does the most damage thanks to the Max strength double damage bonus which is easy to get if you are an ogre or have a strength+ background. At strength 20, I get a 20 damage bonus, late guns like looking glass rifle is strong, but other before that, they are horrible. You said you are playing solo, have you tried taking a party and compare the difference between your pistols and your half-ogres?

Gunsmithers are even worse, they have to invest in Int and then spend points on schematics, of course there are ways to min/max but what is the point.

Post your build, since you are such an expert in Arcanum. I'll post a melee build and we can compare damage and costs. How can you be an expert gun character builder since all you can do is pump shooting and grab good guns as early as possible? Is it cos you can do hit and run tactics using speed? If you going solo, I'm going to compare that to an half-ogre with its massive damage bonus making guns even weaker.

Here is the character planner: http://www.terra-arcanum.com/arcanum/old/characterbank/WEB_ACP.html

And why do you think I think gunslingers are underpowered? Maybe I think melee is overpowered?

 

[ghostdog]

Yeah, Arcanum isn't balanced very well. But the thing is you play a gunslinger, a melee fighter or a mage because you want to play this way, not because a melee character gets a bigger damage bonus. If your character is competent enough to finish the game without being frustrated by the difficulty then it should be ok, shouldn't it ?

I mean this isn't some MMO game where you want to pawn the other player with your character that has a higher damage bonus. Unless you absolutely need to have the most powerful character you can make and you always force yourself to exploit the game's imbalances and play a melee build.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I hate the whole "from zero to hero", one point per level character development.
It's such a decline from the Fallout's character system. I guess it's because they didn't take Chris Taylor with them when they left Interplay.

 

[someone else]

Yeah, Arcanum isn't balanced very well. But the thing is you play a gunslinger, a melee fighter or a mage because you want to play this way, not because a melee character gets a bigger damage bonus. If your character is competent enough to finish the game without being frustrated by the difficulty then it should be ok, shouldn't it ?

Missing the point, some people think this game is balanced and hence my above post. Am I whining that guns are too weak or am I whining melee is too strong? Balance goes both ways, overpowered builds can make the game boring; your NPC half-ogres + dog can kill stuff in seconds, why bother to shoot your measly pistol and waste bullets. In-game, you are constantly reminded how weak you are compared to your over-powered balanced-sword swingers until you get a nice gun (but then baronjohn didn't play with a party and so cannot compare the difference in combat?). This is one reason why I value balance. Is this wrong?
And some people have been frustrated by some builds, but then I guess it is because they suck and not because of balance problems. Nice, blaming the players instead of the developers. On the other hand some builds have almost no challenge.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

My latest LARP character in Arcanum was a gunslinger/chemist Half-Elf with the Mad Doctor background... and he didn't use any followers. He was a loner.

Suffice to say that it went really, really, well. And I tried my best not to take advantage of my previous knowledge of the game, which meant that I did NOT go exploit some of the obvious solutions which you can use to make a gunslinger more powerful early on. Nope. Just a fine revolver... chemicals... and later a looking glass rifle.

Viva life.

 

[someone else]

^ That's nice, nobody said anything about gunslingers not being able to win the game. My gunslinger powergamed and ran around slaughtering everyone. Can't beat my backstabbing fighter/thief/mage though, I suspect this is one of the cheesiest builds. And why make top guns obtainable without schematics? This is another bad design, making the gunsmithers even weaker and gunslingers stronger.

Yeah I won the game seven times just to prove how shitty it is.

And as for importance of balance, how many of you actually edited the weapon stats in this game? I did, I tried to balance the game, this is how important I hold balance.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Arcanum has always been shit. Troika in general has always been shit actually. Their games are essentially giant steaming piles of turd with the odd gem embedded in it. They are pretty much bioware with shittier writing.

Ok until the bold.

 

[TNO]

Currently playing Arcanum and having a blast. I have gone ez-mode and picked a mage though (it is amazing how mages seem to be OP in virtually every cRPG they are in, really).

Also note RK-47s preposterously prestigious LP. Well worth a read if you can't stomach all the tedium.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Yeah, Arcanum isn't balanced very well. But the thing is you play a gunslinger, a melee fighter or a mage because you want to play this way, not because a melee character gets a bigger damage bonus. If your character is competent enough to finish the game without being frustrated by the difficulty then it should be ok, shouldn't it ?

Poor balance doesn't just cause problems when the game is made too hard, it also become problematic when the game is made too easy.

Again, it's one thing if only a few obscure builds cause this kind of problem, but when obvious, stereotypical RPG builds that should have been tested cause the combat to become incredibly easy and boring, it's bad design.

I "lucked" into a good melee/magic character on my first try and the combat was so devoid of challenge or gameplay that I eventually ended up just switching it to the ridiculous real time mode to get things over with faster.

 

[1eyedking]

Stretched spider sprite for the win.

Oh and throwing grenades requires 0 AP, no friendly fire.

"Code. Design. Art" indeed

 

[kanenas]

^ That's nice, nobody said anything about gunslingers not being able to win the game. My gunslinger powergamed and ran around slaughtering everyone. Can't beat my backstabbing fighter/thief/mage though, I suspect this is one of the cheesiest builds. And why make top guns obtainable without schematics? This is another bad design, making the gunsmithers even weaker and gunslingers stronger.

Yeah I won the game seven times just to prove how shitty it is.

And as for importance of balance, how many of you actually edited the weapon stats in this game? I did, I tried to balance the game, this is how important I hold balance.

An aspie basement-dweller rises from the depths!

 

[Roguey]

I hate the whole "from zero to hero", one point per level character development.
It's such a decline from the Fallout's character system. I guess it's because they didn't take Chris Taylor with them when they left Interplay.

Saint_P said they had to make the system as different as Fallout's as they possibly could because Interplay had its attack dog lawyers on their case for perceived similarities between the two. Herve Caen strikes again, a human black hole of the game industry.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I hate the whole "from zero to hero", one point per level character development.
It's such a decline from the Fallout's character system. I guess it's because they didn't take Chris Taylor with them when they left Interplay.

Saint_P said they had to make the system as different as Fallout's as they possibly could because Interplay had its attack dog lawyers on their case for perceived similarities between the two. Herve Caen strikes again, a human black hole of the game industry.

Wow, that's insane O_o . Would they have any legal grounds to sue them?

 

[baronjohn]

Backup your words with numbers. How many points does it take to make a strong melee/magic character?

20 ST, 20 DX, mastery in melee and dodge + enough tech skill to at least make the axe and sword, but since you're melee you probably want the full mechanical/smithy doctorate for the power armor

vs

19 IN + harm + enough spells to get 100% magic alignment + misc shit

vs

17 PE (+2 from spectacles found in the first mine), mastery in firearms + 1 fate point to get the hand cannon in Tarant + possibly some explosive skill

The point isn't that gunslingers can't handle the enemy, they are comparatively weak.

If they can handle everything the game throws at them why does it matter if they're comparatively weak (which is debatable).

You said you are playing solo, have you tried taking a party and compare the difference between your pistols and your half-ogres?

Uhm playing with a party in Arcanum is incredibly frustrating due to uncontrollable AI and only really worthwhile for the bonuses like getting fate points, iron clan armor,...

Gunsmithers are even worse, they have to invest in Int and then spend points on schematics, of course there are ways to min/max but what is the point.

Gunsmithy is totally useless. All the guns are easily available in the game and the best gun can be made with an IN of 9, a potion, and manuals.

 

[Longshanks]

Cool, new 'Best Thread Ever' and no need for external references.

 

[Roguey]

Wow, that's insane O_o . Would they have any legal grounds to sue them?

I don't know if they'd win, but the current ongoing lawsuit between Interplay and Bethesda shows how Interplay lawyers are extraordinarily resilient and one of the last things Troika needed was a bunch of legal fees and time being taken up in court before they even had a game out.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

Look, it doesn't matter that tech route is shit and totally nonsensical in relation to the gameworld and its mechanics because you can make a tech character perfectly capable of completing the game. That's why I claim that in order to make a strong meele character you need 20 points in dex, str, maxed out meele and dodge and shitload of schematics.

Cool story bro. First of all, the gunslinger you mention is typical powergaming and pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. What is more, you can make a perfectly capable meele char with the starting points and background only, adding anything to it just makes it stupidly op. In case of magic it's even worse as I think by using a proper background, and starting points to take harm and lockpicking spell you are pretty much set to complete the game, you just need a supply of potions.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Wow, that's insane O_o . Would they have any legal grounds to sue them?

I don't know if they'd win, but the current ongoing lawsuit between Interplay and Bethesda shows how Interplay lawyers are extraordinarily resilient and one of the last things Troika needed was a bunch of legal fees and time being taken up in court before they even had a game out.

Damn. One more reason to hate Haerve and Kwansteinia.

I wonder where Saint Proverbius got that info, though.