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NotSweeper

Educated
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269
It doesn't bear comparison with a book because it's an entirely different medium
That chooses to tell its story largely through writing.
The Glow is a great example of something that can't be compared to a book - you could write the Glow exploration sequence in novel form and have it be very evocative and engaging, but as Fallout is a videogame, that same mood is conveyed through visuals, through sound, and through the player's own decisions when moving through the facility.
I agree, environmental storytelling always ends up being superior to writing in video games.
Replace the visuals of every game you enjoy with stick figures and textureless flat surfaces, remove all dialogue and music, and see how much fun you're having with them.
Minecraft, Rimworld, Kenshi, Don't Starve, Mount and Blade, Battle Brothers. All great games without any writing, and that's just off the top of my head.
 
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It doesn't matter how you adapt it. If you take out every single quest in Fallout and all the writing, you can still run around the world killing raiders and geckos and whatnot. The writing is not the core of video games, they don't need it, and I fail to see why storyfags are so insistent on having it.

Wow, you are retarded. Why are you here if you don't like RPGs? Lemming42 already pointed out the importance writing has. It seems to me you attribute writing in RPGs to purple prose.

If Fallout (and RPGs in general) were how you described, there would be no reason to touch them because 99% of games in other genres blow RPGs out of the water in terms of combat and gameplay.

The premise, call to action, characters, setting coupled with visuals and carving your own story through the world is what makes RPGs. As long as the combat isn't offensively bad, you got yourself a decent RPG.

The games which try to write like books/CYOA fail in RPG sense because of this.

DE managed to completely subvert the core of not only what an RPG is, but what a video game is. You play video games for the gameplay and the story (if it has one) serves as an excuse to engage in the gameplay, but in DE you use what little gameplay there is to read the visual novel, which is what it is.
Writing isn't, and has never been, an important aspect of video games. You valuing storyfaggotry doesn't change that, it merely shows that you play video games for the wrong reason.
I said Disco Elysium isn't an RPG in my eyes so 99% of your comment is a waste of time. It must be exhausting having the reading comprehension of a 3 year old.

Also, if you're going to resort to ad hominems at least get it right. I can't even get myself to finish the Codex darling storyfaggot games.
 
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there would be no reason to touch them because 99% of games in other genres blow RPGs out of the water in terms of combat and gameplay.
>I play RPGs for the storyfaggotry
>There's no reason to play them otherwise
Like I said, that's a you problem retard.
Writing is not a synonym for story, retard. I'm guessing you must also think gameplay strictly means combat?
 
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kek stop being such a semantic faggot, you know what I mean
We're not arguing semantics. I'm flat out stating you are a retard for attributing writing in RPGs as a whole to mean "story".

Or are you throwing out words storyfaggot you don't know the meaning and arguing things you don't understand? You're out of your element here buddy.
 

Lemming42

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That chooses to tell its story largely through writing.
It's only fractionally through writing if we define writing as text - I'm not really clear on what you're using "writing" to refer to here. Again, think about The Glow. In a novel, the author would describe the location, and how the Vault Dweller feels upon entering it. In a movie, set designers would work to portray the location, the soundtrack would enhance the mood, and an actor or actress would portray how the Vault Dweller feels.

In a videogame, graphics artists portray the location, the soundtrack enhances the mood, and then the player controls the protagonist, their own emotional responses being that of the protagonist (this isn't even unique to RPGs; Gordon Freeman and (early) Lara Croft are examples of silent or mostly-silent protagonists whose reactions to things are intentionally blank so that the player's own thoughts and feelings may be projected onto them - it's one of the primary ways in which videogames can achieve a different effect to other mediums).

The point is that all these mediums are attempting to do the same thing, which is to bring about an emotional response in the viewer/reader/player. They use different tools to do this, but none is inherently better than the other (at least not overall; some may be better at certain things). If you think Fallout as a game is not as successful at this as a novelisation of the same concept would be, that's a fair opinion but I don't see how it translates to "videogames don't need writing". I think it's folly to compare mediums like this anyway - videogames can have bad writing and very frequently do, but to act as if the audiovisual component of a chiefly audiovisual medium is unimportant is bizarre, as is pretending that videogames don't offer unique ways of storytelling that don't exist for other mediums, and that these can't be successfully used by good developers.

Case in point, Mount & Blade is not a game "without any writing". Calradia is visually designed to evoke a certain time and place, the dialogue of the characters frequently illustrates the feudal/class system going on and the cheapness with which human life is viewed in that world, the music (peaceful music while traveling, intense music for battles, heroic music for moments of triumph) is meant to elevate the mood, etc. Calradia has a very strong sense of place, and inspires certain moods and emotional reactions in the player. If by "writing" you literally mean "text on the screen" then sure, but given that you conflated it with "storyfaggotry" I'm assuming you're using it to refer to basically any stylistic element that exists separate from mechanical gameplay; Mount & Blade is a game rich in these elements.

Given that you drew a distinction between "environmental storytelling" and "writing" - which, to me, are synonymous - I think there's some kind of semantics issue going on where nobody can quite tell what you're trying to say or what you mean by "writing".
 

Silverfish

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Writing isn't, and has never been, an important aspect of video games. You valuing storyfaggotry doesn't change that, it merely shows that you play video games for the wrong reason.

No one would spend hours flipping blocks into place without the larger goal of getting revenge on Kain.
 

agris

Arcane
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Downloading Kenshi as I type (although prob won't play it until my Kotor and possibly PoE revisits are done with)
If you enjoy difficulty, don’t use any mods which increase the max squad size for your first play. It trivializes the difficulty
 

NotSweeper

Educated
Joined
Dec 26, 2023
Messages
269
Writing isn't, and has never been, an important aspect of video games. You valuing storyfaggotry doesn't change that, it merely shows that you play video games for the wrong reason.

No one would spend hours flipping blocks into place without the larger goal of getting revenge on Kain.
Our storyfag normie frens are simply incapable of understanding. Different brain wiring.
I'm flat out stating you are a retard for attributing writing in RPGs as a whole to mean "story".
I'm well aware that storyfaggotry is composed of many elements, apart from the story. C&C, companions, whatever. I'm saying none of that shit actually matters, because it has nothing to do with what the core of the gameplay is, namely, in regards to RPGs, the combat (and everything that accompanies it).
Given that you drew a distinction between "environmental storytelling" and "writing" - which, to me, are synonymous - I think there's some kind of semantics issue going on where nobody can quite tell what you're trying to say or what you mean by "writing".
Well this is the crux of the issue I guess. Storytelling =/= writing, and I certainly wouldn't consider environmental storytelling to be synonymous to writing. Most CRPGs tend to tell their stories through dialogue or long exposition dumps. I think any and all other forms of storytelling, including cinematics, work better in video games. All that aside, regardless of how the story is told, the gameplay is always more important. And no, the story, writing, whatever you wanna call it, isn't part of gameplay.
 
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Wanting good writing in RPGs has nothing to do with being a storyfag, considering even combat focused RPGs will be elevated with the introduction of good writing.
 

Lemming42

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All that aside, regardless of how the story is told, the gameplay is always more important.
Ultimately, that's an opinion; I think it's a shame to write off the entirety of what videogames as a medium are capable of and distill it down to just "gameplay".

If your point is "many videogame writers are hacks who can't control the amount of words they're putting out and end up with long boring reams of text that the player doesn't want to read", you won't find much opposition on this forum. But to claim that story and worldbuilding and setting and plot premise aren't important into videogames is an opinion that surely precludes you from enjoying the vast majority of "classic" games.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
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Fallout did it, Arcanum did it, Escape from the Pit did it
You use these titles as an example of great writing, but if you compare them to any number of movies or books they end up being at or below pulp magazine levels.

That's not true. It depends on what you are comparing them to. There are plenty of shit books too and shit movies whose script or dialogue are much worse than Fallout/Arcanum/PST.
 

dubLEs

Novice
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
10
underrail and kotc2 are good to play at night, aaa games and multiplayer stuff you play at daytime because rpgs are too boring to play at daytime
perplexing post
 

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