Indie Four Horsemen of Incline - Underrail, Grimoire, Kenshi and KotC

[El Presidente]

In other words, your statement is incorrect

Woah congratulations you really gottem! by thinking of the 0.0000001% that dodges the norm, which fits exactly what he said.

Next you're gonna tell us you DID have breakfast this morning.

 

[Silverfish]

Ok then
Tell me the name of an indie 3D Hack 'n' Slash released in the last 10 years, that's better than Devil Mary Cry 5
Go

All of them.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Woah congratulations you really gottem!

Thank you Mr. President.

Just doing my job.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

We all know out of these games only Disco Elysium will be remembered in 20 years, just how we still remember Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Arcanum, Wizardry etc.

I'm saying DE has had the same impact on release as those classics

That's why DE makes so many people seethe, despite coming out 5 years ago its still regularly talked about and hailed as a pinnacle of the genre, meanwhile whatever indieslop "retro throwback" people are playing now will be forgotten in a month.

The only reason Disco Elysium will be mentioned in the future is because (like Mass Effect) it hits the spot for shallow intellectuals.

As a game, DE is a complete mess (dress up mechanics, retarded detective story, shallow handling of most topics, fake consequences, hidden timers and so on) however it's the perfect artsy pointless no-game of the moment. Nobody knows what is the main theme of the game is (probably neither the game devs because they went beserk) but fanbois can pretend that they get it while the regular hoi polloi is unable to see the game's brilliance.

Yeah, DE will be mentioned in the future because most game journalists are shallow intellectuals which need external validation and the game is the perfect tool for that. However, the game's impact on the genre is close to null (if it exists at all). Moving the dialogue window to the right side of the screen has as much impact as my dog's farts. I agree that it's hard to hit the right level of retardness to make the chaotic dialogues work but dress-up/CYOA games existed long before DE.

Basically Terenty is delusional as fuck. Or maybe both of you are.

Shallow intellectuals? Two times, too? What about those deep intellectuals, eh? Is the word intellectual even used in a positive way in your system of values? I mean, you could just go all-out and say that all intellectual production is masturbatory nonsense, that poetry is for faggots and so on. Say it with authority, like a big man. Artsy pointless useless shit. Yeah, man. Repress those feelings. Play the cold tactical game. Anything intellectual must be devoid of colors. That's how it goes around here

Wow, wow, talking about projection! Did I touch you in that special place?

No, you did not touch The Daddy's special place. Nor will you ever.

because his intelligence feels hurt by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game with no combat that was lauded for being one of the few games to be actually well written

People who praise writing in video games are people who don't read actual books. Disco Elysium, F:NV, P:ST, doesn't matter. It's all shit. Video games have never and will never be a good medium for anything related to writing, trying to force the issue is how you end up with half measure abominations like DE. It might have good writing in the context of vidya, but in the context of literature it's laughable.
So there you go, you've got a shit non-game, that has equally shit writing in the grand scheme of things, but you decide to suck out the precum out of its tip because your ADHD, dopamine addled brain is incapable of reading a book.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about if you're even invoking words like literature in a conversation like this. Yes, obviously Disco Elysium doesn't compare to The Brother's Karamzov or Pride and Prejudice. That doesn't mean it's badly written, retard.

 

[NotSweeper]

That doesn't mean it's badly written, retard.

That's exactly what it means. Nothing exists in a vacuum. The best efforts of vidya writers amount to amateurish fanfiction in comparison to actual literature.
If Disco Elysium is well written, it's only well written because it's a video game, not because it's actually good.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

That doesn't mean it's badly written, retard.

That's exactly what it means. Nothing exists in a vacuum. The best efforts of vidya writers amount to amateurish fanfiction in comparison to actual literature.
If Disco Elysium is well written, it's only well written because it's a video game, not because it's actually good.

But again you don't know what you're talking about. Most well-written books aren't "Actual Literature". A modern sci-fi novel like The Martian isn't a literary classic of the genre like Dune or something by H.G. Wells, but that doesn't mean it's bad or poorly written.

If your standard for good writing is literal classical masterpieces then nothing can be good.

With that being said yes I agree that 99% of video games are terribly written if you're thinking in terms of novel writing, DE is just one of the few exceptions. It's not perfect by any means but it blows everything else away in its medium.

 

[NotSweeper]

The point I'm trying to make, and clearly failing, is that video games as a medium are particularly ill-suited for writing. If you took those classics and tried to make a vidya out of them, not only would you end up with a shit vidya, but the quality of the writing would be lost as well. Trying to create a game that focuses on something video games are weak at is counterproductive. Whether it's visual novels like DE, or video game movies like BG3 or Kojima slop, the same criticism applies. So when you fags come screeching with "BUT MUH WRITING", you, much like the creators of said abominations, entirely miss the point. Kurvitz couldn't hack it as a novelist so he turned to vidya, the same as Kojima's wanting to be a film director.

Even RPGs I love, like Underrail or PF:KM are, in all honesty, held back by their insistence on having the standard main quest/side quest shittery. Kenshi, Mount and Blade, Battle Brothers, all VASTLY superior to DE. Because they know what they are and they play to their strengths. If anything the focus on storyfaggotry, to me, is a sign of cowardice. Let the gameplay speak for itself.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

held back by their insistence on having the standard main quest/side quest shittery.

If anything the focus on storyfaggotry, to me, is a sign of cowardice.

Honestly all this post is telling me is that you don't like traditional CRPGs which is totally fine, but goes back to my original point of DE just not being your thing, which doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad game.

 

[NotSweeper]

which doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad game.

It's barely even a game.

Honestly all this post is telling me is that you don't like traditional CRPGs which is totally fine

Ironic, coming from someone who thinks a visual novel is a good game.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Honestly all this post is telling me is that you don't like traditional CRPGs which is totally fine

Ironic, coming from someone who thinks a visual novel is a good game.

I mean...you say yourself in your post that you dislike "mainquest/sidequest shittery" despite that being a staple of the genre since Akalabeth released in like 1979. Those really early CRPGs were adaptations of D&D campaigns and a certain amount of storytelling was part of their appeal.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

You're both retards.

Disco Elysium has great writing and Sweeper can't make a point to save his life. It's great to have a game that did an important aspect better than any others and writing is a really important part of most subgenres of RPGs. And no, "writing" doesn't only mean prose. I wouldn't expect an autistic combatfag to be able to grasp that concept.

But comparing DE to "traditional crpgs" and implying someone who didn't enjoy DE doesn't like those...Jesus NotSweeper how are you getting embarrassed by a retard like this?

 

[mindx2]

Are all these youth newbies around here defending that Disco "game"? Isn't that the commie game? Back in my day, you see a commie you shot 'em!

Spoiler

Better dead than red!

 

[luj1]

DE will be mentioned in the future because most game journalists are shallow intellectuals which need external validation

Pretty much this. I call them pseudo-intellectuals though.

 

[luj1]

Disco Elysium has great writing

It has great worldbuilding. It doesn't have great writing, for a video game. Maybe for a literary work it does. Maybe.

 

[luj1]

He keeps bringing up "shallow intellectualism" because his intelligence feels hurt by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

his intelligence feels hurt by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

game

Reading is not gameplay.

Disco has no combat, it has limited exploration and fake choices. I grew up on adventure games. Disco is not one. It's barely a game (?). Adventure games usually have puzzles, platforming, combat, etc.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Disco Elysium has great writing

It has great worldbuilding. It doesn't have great writing, for a video game. Maybe for a literary work it does. Maybe.

The Delores Dei (i.e. ex wife) "questline" if you can call it that is great writing. Every time I've specified it as a wonderfully written personal adventure, which is what it is, never specified "RPG" or "video game" writing because I liked my RPGs to be straight to the point and let the game shine, instead of a failed writer who uses games as their 101 level creative writing class in college.

 

[luj1]

People who praise writing in video games are people who don't read actual books. Disco Elysium, F:NV, P:ST, doesn't matter. It's all shit. Video games have never and will never be a good medium for anything related to writing

You don't get it, do you? Writing for video games should and MUST be different from writing in other works. It must be adapted for the medium. Fallout did it, Arcanum did it, Escape from the Pit did it, a bunch of games did it, but your writing must be direct and TO THE POINT, as to not detract too much from the gameplay. Logically.

 

[pizza_microwave]

Where is Age of Decadence on the list?

 

[mindx2]

He keeps bringing up "shallow intellectualism" because his intelligence feels hurt by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

his intelligence feels hurt by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

by the fact that he can't enjoy a dialogue/story focused game

game

Reading is not gameplay.

Disco has no combat, it has limited exploration and fake choices. I grew up on adventure games. Disco is not one. It's barely a game (?). Adventure games usually have puzzles, platforming, combat, etc.

So it's basically this but with more art...

No thanks, that's a visual book not a game.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

But comparing DE to "traditional crpgs" and implying someone who didn't enjoy DE doesn't like those...Jesus NotSweeper how are you getting embarrassed by a retard like this?

I was saying that him not liking CRPGs (which he makes pretty clear if you read what he's saying) does not mean they're a bad genre, in the same way that not liking DE doesn't make it a bad game.

I don't like the first Baldurs Gate, that doesn't mean it's a bad game and I can see why people enjoy it.

Contrarianism can only get to a certain point before it becomes silly and nonsensical.

 

[Bibbimbop]

Where is Age of Decadence on the list?

Ohoho... Imagine innocently saying this while the conversation is whether Disco Elysium is a game.

 

[NotSweeper]

People who praise writing in video games are people who don't read actual books. Disco Elysium, F:NV, P:ST, doesn't matter. It's all shit. Video games have never and will never be a good medium for anything related to writing

You don't get it, do you? Writing for video games should and MUST be different from writing in other works. It must be adapted for the medium. Fallout did it, Arcanum did it, Escape from the Pit did it, a bunch of games did it, but your writing must be direct and TO THE POINT, as to not detract too much from the gameplay. Logically.

It doesn't matter how you adapt it. If you take out every single quest in Fallout and all the writing, you can still run around the world killing raiders and geckos and whatnot. The writing is not the core of video games, they don't need it, and I fail to see why storyfags are so insistent on having it.

You're both retards.

Disco Elysium has great writing and Sweeper can't make a point to save his life. It's great to have a game that did an important aspect better than any others and writing is a really important part of most subgenres of RPGs. And no, "writing" doesn't only mean prose. I wouldn't expect an autistic combatfag to be able to grasp that concept.

But comparing DE to "traditional crpgs" and implying someone who didn't enjoy DE doesn't like those...Jesus NotSweeper how are you getting embarrassed by a retard like this?

DE managed to completely subvert the core of not only what an RPG is, but what a video game is. You play video games for the gameplay and the story (if it has one) serves as an excuse to engage in the gameplay, but in DE you use what little gameplay there is to read the visual novel, which is what it is.
Writing isn't, and has never been, an important aspect of video games. You valuing storyfaggotry doesn't change that, it merely shows that you play video games for the wrong reason.

 

[luj1]

The writing is not the core of video games

No one said it was. You were the one who claimed games will always have shit writing. That is a wholly different topic from whether writing is the core or not (it's not).

 

[NotSweeper]

You are wrong and retarded, and can't even follow the discussion.

Yeah I know, and my mother dresses me funny and I have big ears.

Fallout did it, Arcanum did it, Escape from the Pit did it

You use these titles as an example of great writing, but if you compare them to any number of movies or books they end up being at or below pulp magazine levels.
Any other shinning examples you wanna come up with?

 

[Lemming42]

It doesn't matter how you adapt it. If you take out every single quest in Fallout and all the writing, you can still run around the world killing raiders and geckos and whatnot. The writing is not the core of video games, they don't need it, and I fail to see why storyfags are so insistent on having it.

Fallout would not enjoy the cultural impact it does if it were a game with no dialogue about killing scorpions (geckos first appear in Fo2).

The combat (ie gameplay) in Fallout isn't even very good, the writing is pretty much the entire draw. It doesn't bear comparison with a book because it's an entirely different medium, which not only uses a mixture of text and audiovisuals to convey the world and story, but also crucially relies on the player independently choosing to do things that shape the story and bring it to life. Comparing it to any given novel is like trying to argue whether or not "Just Like Heaven" by The Cure is a "better written" love story than any given Jane Austen novel - it's impossible to compare because both mediums, in this case music and literature, are trying to evoke similar emotions but in an entirely different way.

The Glow is a great example of something that can't be compared to a book - you could write the Glow exploration sequence in novel form and have it be very evocative and engaging, describing the sense of eerie loneliness and isolation that the area radiates, but as Fallout is a videogame, that same mood is conveyed through visuals, through sound, through some sparse text, and through the player's own decisions when moving through the facility.

"Videogames don't need writing!" is such an old early 2000s argument that I'm surprised it's still around. Replace the visuals of every game you enjoy with stick figures and textureless flat surfaces, remove all dialogue and music, and see how much fun you're having with them.