From the Escapist- RPGs that are good for what they are.

[Kaanyrvhok]

I'm going to catch hell for the Oblivion love. For that I say screw you. We are all owed a guilty pleasure


Encounters
Pool of Radiance
Baldur's Gate 1&2
Fallout 1 and 2

Strategic Combat
Fire Emblem
Jagged Alliance
I got to go with Icewind Dale over Temple of Elemental evil and NWN 2. Personal preference but if you want to say I'm stupid I'll agree.

Roleplaying
Way of the Samurai
Planescape Torment
Fallout 2

Story (independent of plot). How well a story is delivered is usually more important than an original plot
Baldur's Gate
Pool of Radiance
KOTOR

Plot
Gothic
Ultima IV
Mask of the Betrayer

Graphics
Mass Effect 2
Planescape Torment
Temple of Elemental Evil

Art Style
Torment again
Morrowind
Phantom Dust... ok that's not an RPG
Icewind Dale 2

Action Combat
Shenmue
Way of the Samurai
Deus Ex 1 barely beating Mass Effect 2

Dialog
Mass Effect 2
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
Dark Knights of Krynn

Exploration
Morrowind
Baldurs Gate 1
Arcanum barely over Fallout 3

AI/Combat
Icewind Dale for having a mage that would summon creatures at you that chased you into Cloud Kills then teleported to the other side of the map
NWN 2
Temple of Elemental Evil

AI/Sim
Deus Ex
Oblivion
Gothic

Voice acting
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
Oblivion- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBRSQGSyo9s&NR=1 for that alone
Baldur's Gate 2

Pace
Fallout 1
Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines
Shenmue

Music
Arcanum- just for the openeing score
Mother- I only played a little of the game want to play more. Really I want a modern remake
Fallout 3

Quest
Baldur's Gate 2
Oblivion
Pool of Radiance by a mile

 

[gromit]

Copious counter-decline in that list. And yes, Shenmue's combat kicked ass, but I couldn't blame anyone who didn't enjoy it.

 

[jancobblepot]

I'm going to catch hell for the Oblivion love. For that I say screw you. We are all owed a guilty pleasure

Yeah, I know, but...

AI/Sim
Oblivion

Really? Did you play Ultima VII?


Edit: Duh, next time I will read the fckin title...

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I'm going to catch hell for the Oblivion love. For that I say screw you. We are all owed a guilty pleasure

Yeah, I know, but...

AI/Sim
Oblivion

Really? Did you play Ultima VII?


Edit: Duh, next time I will read the fckin title...

I have only played three Ultima games and I thought VII was one of them. Are there two VIIs? I played that one at release 4 and 1 much later so 4 and 1 are fresher. I heard Gothic 3 has better sim AI than Oblivion but I have only played Gothic 1

 

[hoverdog]

Escapist is bad for what it is.

 

[dextermorgan]

What the hell am I reading?

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone put Ragon Ages combat on their list

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... e#10642241

 

[Jaesun]

Would be interesting to do a codex poll of each of those categories. Fuck that would be a lot of work though.

 

[Serious_Business]

I have a tactical advantage

 

[Excidium]

What a strange list. Personal opinion and all that but some choices are just weird.

 

[Karmapowered]

A game is good for what it is.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway ?

I loathe lazy reviewers, that invent marketing gimmicks to keep sucking big bucks dicks behind the scenes, and lobotomized people that keep nodding at them with their credit card in their hand, while the games are utter failures.

DA2 is good for what it is.

Good as a cRPG ? Nope.

Good as an action game ? Not quite.

Good as a steaming dungpile on your freshly mown lawn ?

What I expect from any semi-decent professional is to qualify their analysis, so that I can make up my own opinion.

If these Escapist people get a disease one day, I hope their doctor to tell them : uh, don't worry, it is good for what it is.

The Escapist should no longer be given the benefit of being labelled as a videogame reviewing site.

 

[Bigot_]

"Good for what it is" is the new "It's good in my opinion", apparently.

 

[Gragt]

Another shitty list that brings nothing new to the table. Move along.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Re: From the Escapist- RPGs that are good for what they are

Encounters
Baldur's Gate 1&2
Fallout 1 and 2

What the..?

 

[Country_Gravy]

"Good for what it is" is the new "It's good in my opinion", apparently.

It doesn't mean anything...Everything is good for what it is because that is what it is so it has to be good for it.

 

[Metro]

Oblivion for quests? No. Good to see Pool of Radiance getting some well deserved nods, though. Assuming they're talking about the original Gold Box version. Also agree on the 'plot' for Gothic. The plot was actually fairly interesting it was just delivered poorly -- of course it is hard to tell for me whether or not that had to do with a bad translation into English.

 

[SCO]

It's pretty cool in gothic how

Spoiler

if you choose the fire mage faction makes you persona non-grata, to the point you have to annihilate some fools.

(me being me, i annihilated the camp).

 

[hoverdog]

Re: From the Escapist- RPGs that are good for what they are

Encounters
Baldur's Gate 1&2
Fallout 1 and 2

What the..?

encounters in BG were really good, it was the combat system that didn't really work. Baldur's encounter system + TOEE combat system = HEAVAN

 

[Archibald]

A game is good for what it is.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway ?

I loathe lazy reviewers, that invent marketing gimmicks to keep sucking big bucks dicks behind the scenes, and lobotomized people that keep nodding at them with their credit card in their hand, while the games are utter failures.

DA2 is good for what it is.

Good as a cRPG ? Nope.

Good as an action game ? Not quite.

Good as a steaming dungpile on your freshly mown lawn ?

What I expect from any semi-decent professional is to qualify their analysis, so that I can make up my own opinion.

If these Escapist people get a disease one day, I hope their doctor to tell them : uh, don't worry, it is good for what it is.

The Escapist should no longer be given the benefit of being labelled as a videogame reviewing site.

I think Blobert once wrote something along these lines "BUTTSEX IS GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS". Imo every review site should be shitlisted if they use "good for what it is" phrase.

 

[Smiffy]

AI/Sim
Oblivion

Lots of games might be argueable on that list, but this?
NPCs walking around aimlessly only to have random chats with other NPCs where it's a matter of luck whether they actually talk about the same subject? Seriously, where does that come from?

 

[Daemongar]

AI/Sim
Oblivion

Lots of games might be argueable on that list, but this?
NPCs walking around aimlessly only to have random chats with other NPCs where it's a matter of luck whether they actually talk about the same subject? Seriously, where does that come from?

Ok, I know I'm asking for it, but I'll take the bait: Oblivion has bad NPC's and that, but compared to what? There are other games with random NPC schedules and conversations we should be aware of, that all rpgs should strive to attain? What makes Oblivions so bad that they should be singled out? U7's npc schedules were kind of fun, but 90% of rpgs have npcs that stay in the same spot for the entire game. Why is Oblivion somehow worse?

 

[Admiral jimbob]

AI/Sim
Oblivion

Lots of games might be argueable on that list, but this?
NPCs walking around aimlessly only to have random chats with other NPCs where it's a matter of luck whether they actually talk about the same subject? Seriously, where does that come from?

Ok, I know I'm asking for it, but I'll take the bait: Oblivion has bad NPC's and that, but compared to what? There are other games with random NPC schedules and conversations we should be aware of, that all rpgs should strive to attain? What makes Oblivions so bad that they should be singled out? U7's npc schedules were kind of fun, but 90% of rpgs have npcs that stay in the same spot for the entire game. Why is Oblivion somehow worse?

There's just something in the level of effort that elevates it to the level of intense creepiness. NPCs that stand around and maybe shuffle on the spot a bit? That's fine, that's what we're used to, silly as it may be. But when they have a semblance of life, getting up and going to work and talking in the streets... it makes it all the creepier, all the more uncanny when you spot one of them walking into a wall for five hours only to turn to a passing frog person and mumble about mudcrabs. Where did they see these mudcrabs? When? Soon, you become all too aware that these frightening drone-people are only carrying on a Truman Show-esque play for your benefit, tugged at the strings by some obscene puppetmaster. I'll take an NPC vacantly staring into space over having to overhear another nightmare exchange of unconnected, fragmented sentences that reminds me of my attempts at socialising and the cold, distant relationship I had with my father before he left me in a dumpster all those years ago-

Also, the combat AI was absolute bollocks.

 

[Metro]

Ok, I know I'm asking for it, but I'll take the bait: Oblivion has bad NPC's and that, but compared to what? There are other games with random NPC schedules and conversations we should be aware of, that all rpgs should strive to attain? What makes Oblivions so bad that they should be singled out? U7's npc schedules were kind of fun, but 90% of rpgs have npcs that stay in the same spot for the entire game. Why is Oblivion somehow worse?

The problem is they cite Oblivion as an example of 'good' AI when it is arguably worse/does not improve at all on the other two examples named in the category -- Deus Ex and Gothic -- despite the fact it came out half a dozen years later.

 

[waywardOne]

the best part of oblivion's AI was when you'd find some Shmoe's corpse getting raped by bandits because he was scheduled to visit another town.

 

[Daemongar]

Ok, thanks for the replies. I understood the greif over leveled encounters/dungeons, but never understood the beef with the NPC city AI. Actually, NPC schedules is another convention that never really developed too well in rpgs after the Ultima's.