Gamasutra Design Essentials: 20 RPGs

[Rohit_N]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4 ... 0_rpgs.php

Actually 10 WRPGs and 10 JRPGs.

 

[Wyrmlord]

This is a good list, and I approve.

 

[Brother None]

Except for listing WoW and not listing any other MUD/MMO, once again prolonging the legend that WoW is "influential", that's a pretty good list.

 

[bhlaab]

Surprised that Fallout wasn't on it, but it seems as though they're picking a single game from each "series" (No Planescape Torment because Baldur's Gate was picked etc) and Wasteland was a nice surprise.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Shit list.

 

[circ]

Agreed on shit. Takes some well known RPGs and largely ignores lesser known stuff that really innovated.

 

[ARZ]

This list is a piece of shit. It doesn't matter how 'influential' a game is, because that can be good or bad. WoW definitely had an influence, but it wasn't a good one. Some stuff was good, like BG and Wasteland. Leaving out FO1 and 2 (FO3 was mentioned in the ES section...) was also a big mistake.

 

[Volourn]

The FOs were tied to Wasteland dudes. Stop the crying.

 

[janjetina]

To quote Barry Unger: "Is terrible."

 

[Serus]

Except WoW it is not a bad list.

 

[AzraelCC]

I thought this was a nice list, with solid writing to demonstrate the innovations the games made. There is even mention of some innovations which could have been developed more, like in the Wasteland writeup where the author lamented the lack of games which feature different ways of dealing with challenges. I think the article was more about tracing how the RPG scene has evolved (or devolved, it doesn't really try to give a judgment call) to what RPGs are today. This is not a best games list.

Nevertheless, for those who see it as a shit list, I'm really curious as to what games which were not included contributed to the development of RPGs.

 

[Luzur]

well they got the basics like Ultima and Might & Magic, so its a OK list.

except for WoW.

 

[janjetina]

Nevertheless, for those who see it as a shit list, I'm really curious as to what games which were not included contributed to the development of RPGs.

Exclusion of Fallout, the game that sets the standard for the RPG genre and inclusion of Baldur's Gate, WoW and a bunch of Japanese games represent terrible blunders.

 

[1eyedking]

1. Wizardry (series) OK-ish
2. Ultima (series) OK
3. Wasteland. Very goode
4. D&D Gold Box series OK-ish
5. Quest for Glory Wat
6. Might & Magic OK-ish
7. Nethack OK-ish
8. Elder Scrolls (series) Oblivion and Daggerfall in the same sack, eh? BAD DISC IS BAD
9. Baldur's Gate (series) "crpgs are dommed sad end sad"
10. World of Warcraft? L-O-L

No Fallout? No Planescape: Torment? No Arcanum? No Vampire: Bloodlines?

11-20. Japanese grinding crap, Chrono Trigger only a sub HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

Jesus Christ. Terrible list.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

To quote Barry Unger: "Is terrible."

LOL that should be a codex meme

 

[The Ninth Circle]

Surprised that Diablo wasn't listed.

 

[bhlaab]

It's the list of most influential, not best.

While it's crazy to not have put fallout on there, Baldur's Gate and WoW influenced the shit out the genre for better or for worse

 

[1eyedking]

It's the list of most influential, not best.

While it's crazy to not have put fallout on there, Baldur's Gate and WoW influenced the shit out the genre for better or for worse

No. It's about design essentials.

Fuck that list.

 

[Higher Game]

2. Ultima (series) OK
3. Wasteland. Very goode

You would honestly call Wasteland very good but Ultima is just ok? :evil: There's no redeeming quality of Wasteland ever since Fallout came out and did everything better, but Ultima 4-7 are still pure gold.

No. It's about design essentials.

Fuck that list.

Wasteland was plagued with a clumsy interface, balance issues, a seemingly random hodgepodge of areas, and a lack of any memorable characters. Nostalgia explains much of the love for it.

Ultima IV might have been the first RPG.

 

[AzraelCC]

Yes, it is about design essentials, in a sense that these games have contributed to what are essential in RPGs TODAY. You can view that in a good way or a bad way. But nowhere in the article did I see that the author say that these are the BEST of the genre. This is also the reason why it's arranged in a chronological order and via WRPG or JRPG

Are there any other games that influenced RPGs in a big way? So far those who replied are butthurt at the exclusion of Fallout in a list that isn't even a best RPGs list.

 

[Kron]

WOW, just wow...
They listed more azn RPGs as being essential in design than WRPGs.

Fallout?? Not even mentioned at the end with Torment...
And as much as I love Dwarf Fortress, it's not an RPG.

This list is shit.

 

[Brother None]

Man, you guys are just reflex hating this list, aren't you? Barely bother to read it to see what it's supposed to list, and then just flame it for the heck of it. Good job, I say.

While it's crazy to not have put fallout on there, Baldur's Gate and WoW influenced the shit out the genre for better or for worse

WoW is just a clone of older concept, in an extremely polished state. Whether or not it can even be called influential, aside from inspiring dozens stupid execs into dreaming they could make an MMO like WoW, is up for debate, but listing it above classic MUDs or even older MMOs is just stupid. WoW is a result, not a maker.

 

[bhlaab]

WoW is just a clone of older concept, in an extremely polished state. Whether or not it can even be called influential, aside from inspiring dozens stupid execs into dreaming they could make an MMO like WoW, is up for debate, but listing it above classic MUDs or even older MMOs is just stupid. WoW is a result, not a maker.

The way I see it, it's sort of the Wolfenstein 3D vs. Doom thing. Yeah, Wolf came first (and if you look into it enough neither actually truly invented the genre) but when it comes to being the game that mattered the most, it's Doom all the way.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

2. Ultima (series) OK
3. Wasteland. Very goode

You would honestly call Wasteland very good but Ultima is just ok? :evil: There's no redeeming quality of Wasteland ever since Fallout came out and did everything better, but Ultima 4-7 are still pure gold.

No. It's about design essentials.

Fuck that list.

Wasteland was plagued with a clumsy interface, balance issues, a seemingly random hodgepodge of areas, and a lack of any memorable characters. Nostalgia explains much of the love for it.

Ultima IV might have been the first RPG.

Piss on this. I won't take anything away from U4, but Wasteland has plenty that other games do not. Even the interactivity with the gameworld alone crushes U4 under it's heel.

It had plenty of interesting locations with side stories and quests galore, with the use of skills and abilities paramount to success. It had various ways of completing quests as well, which again the Ultima games do not have. Rescuing the Mayor in Quartz alone had at least 3 subquests attached where different approaches and options were available, and all of the them were skill based, not picked out from a dialogue list.

The combat was also excellent. It was much more challenging than the simplistic U4 combat, and very easy to learn. The descriptions were brilliant. U4 combat in comparison, while amusing, is much easier and simplistic.

Apart from all the talky talky that many find so important (of which it still had to a degree), it had everything that a role playing gamer could want. More aspects than Ultima 4 certainly (Ultima 5 is a tougher nut to crack, I would call them even, with both having different strengths).

And the UI is not bad at all. Sounds like you couldn't handle the difficulty and gave up to me.

 

[bhlaab]

The UI isn't bad for what it had to do at the time, but I know I have a hard time playing rpgs that were released before the mouse was in widespread use