Review Gamer's Hell loves (to spoil) KotOR

[Volourn]

Graphical problems with TOEE? WHAT? I had no grapghical problems with TOEE. It looked fine. I think you are mistakenly referring to the mass crashes with it, and other asorted bugs.

Otaku, everytime? Hmm.. Surely, the NWN AI is far from perfect; but nowhere near as bad as that exaggeration. It's definitely better than TOEE's AI. Once again, for most people, NWN is a very stable game. Another unmentionable game is not. Not to mention; what does AI weaknesses have to do with engine instability. That is a scripting problem; not engine problem.

 

[Elwro]

Otaku, everytime? Hmm.. Surely, the NWN AI is far from perfect; but nowhere near as bad as that exaggeration. It's definitely better than TOEE's AI. .

OMG. I will soon have my copy of ToEE and will check this myself, but I couldn't imagine AI could be done worse than in NWN. I played with Tomi the halfling. It seemed that the game didn't calculate LOS at all, because he could see zombies on the other side of the map in the night and... you guessed: charge them, even while having close to 0 hp. And it happened many times that I had to order him to open a lock more than once, sometimes thrice. He just stood still. I have never seen him withdraw from a fight, or help my character out - he always prefered to stick to his first opponents
So everytime I heard "here comes halfling death!" I thought "OK Tomi, I'll pick you up from the temple in a few minutes".
You mean that ToEE opponents are that dumb?

 

[Transcendent One]

No, ToEE opponents are not that dumb. There were problems with them trying to kill monsters immune to weapon damage (spiritual weapon) with weapons which were fixed with the patch. And I heard that spellcasters don't utilize their higher level spells. Also bugbears constantly attack your weaker characters with trip attacks, but I wouldn't call that dumb AI, in fact, for them it works quite effectively.

Tomi's AI in NWN was just... horrid. Even the Fallout 1&2 NPC's didn't force me to bash my head on my desk so many times as Tomi, and look at how much older those games are.

 

[Sarkile]

Wow Volourn, your defense of Bioware and NWN might be a little more rabid than the attacks here. Trying to overcompinsate for the hate?
And I didn't think the AI in TOEE was bad at all. It was about as bad as NWN's I thought.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

That is a scripting problem; not engine problem.

Damn you and your technicalities!

Okay, so that wasn't a good example. Here's another one:

Everytime I tried to start up NWN, it would get to 11% loaded of the config utility and then BSOD me to a reboot. I finally managed to get it to load, but ONLY after the second patch. Nothing else I tried or the tech support suggested worked up until that point. I am still scratching my head over why it occured as I could see nothing in the second patch's readme that seemed to fit.

Secondly, and this has not been fixed yet, is the problem I have with the people randomly popping into existence because the engine isn't drawing them in until I am almost upon them. This has been brought up to tech support and they have no clue why it's going on. I expect it will mysteriously get solved by some forthcoming patch, but it's still an annoyance and another example. It doesn't happen all the time though and mostly only happened in Neverwinter itself.

Anyways, I can give you more if you want. All in all it's nothing majorly game disrupting, but the engine is not the most stable I have seen.

And about the AI thing, I said it happens almost everytime. There were instances when they hung back and did the ranged thing, but they were very few and far between. But, unlike the Tomi example above, it happened to me with all the henchman I tried. And, just like the example above, I made lots of trips to the temple.

 

[Volourn]

TOEE AI smart? Please, don't be silly.

I don't call bug bears' one dimensional hate for mages to go though a good half dozen AOO to reach him; foolishly getting killed in the process; intelligent. That's just the most grievous example of lackluistre AI. The bottom line is that opponents will ALWAYS go straight for whoever they originally targetd no matter how inconvient for them. At leats NWN monster (and npc) AI will switch from time to time when they fell it makes sense. Greyhawk, one dimensional AI IS, in fact, dumb. Also, you were one of the few who weren't bashing their heads with the FO npcs - not me, though, I found it funny when they would shoot you. :D

Remember, I never said NWN AI is perfect. In fact, I have my own stories of inept npc AI. Dorna, I'm looking in your direction, girl.

Elwro, talking about not withdrawling, monsters in TOEE never run ever (then again, that goes for almost any game ).

Sarkile, rabid? Rabidity implies I'm hostile. I'm not hostile here. Just a disagreement of how "horrid" NWN AI in comparison to other games. There's also a lot more complexity involved in writing AI scripts for joinable npcs then they are for one dimensional opponents who you kill and never see again. I never tried joinable npcs in TOEE; how are they're AI; or do youa ctually control them in battle?

Otaku, heh, technicalties rule!


Anyways, now to your engne instabilities stuff. Thats' great. You listed a few bugs. WOWSERS! That's instability for you. I mean no other game has had bugs that fool around with loading times, and creatures that pop out of nowhere. I mean, your stating this like you've never played Daggerfalls or something. :wink:

Enjoy. :D

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I never once said in any of my posts that NWN was the ONLY unstable game out there. I am merely pointing out my reasons for stating it wasn't stable in the first place. They had FIVE years to work on it and fresh out the gate it was severely bugged. That's what I am saying.

I know Daggerfall is unstable, but I still love the game. I love it more than NWN even. Why? Because of the freedom, despite the amount of sameness everywhere you go. I do like NWN. I have no problem with the game. It's fun to play multiplayer and it's fun to see what all the people can conjure up with the editor.

My point has been right from the start that NWN isn't the most stable game ever as you would have people believe. It's not the most unstable as well, though. And it's not nearly as unstable as alot of other titles out there.

And I have never had a creature pop out of nowhere in Daggerfall except for out in the wilderness. But I wasn't talking about creatures in NWN, I was talking about the NPCs themselves.

 

[Sarkile]

Sarkile, rabid? Rabidity implies I'm hostile. I'm not hostile here. Just a disagreement of how "horrid" NWN AI in comparison to other games. There's also a lot more complexity involved in writing AI scripts for joinable npcs then they are for one dimensional opponents who you kill and never see again. I never tried joinable npcs in TOEE; how are they're AI; or do youa ctually control them in battle?

You control the henchmen in battle.
And I don't really know how to describe that without rabid. Maybe a fervent desire to interject your opinion into a forum of people with radically different opinions? But rabid is nice and short and I like the word.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah; but what game are you comparing it as regard to stability though? I can't refute a comparisoon that hasn't been made.

This has nothing to do with NWN's (lack) of quality as far as the OC goes.


Example: I like FO2 way more than NWN; but NWN is a more stable game than FO2. Agree, or disagree. All I said that for *me* (since I can't go by others' experience in this regard) that NWN has been the most stable game for me. The *only* time the game has ever crashed on me is when the on-line server is having problems, and it has never crashed on me in single player. That's all.

Sarkile, ok, that's a good definition. Hey, every forum I post in has people with radically different views than me. I get called all sorts of things on the BIO baords 9when I was actually posting there a lot), the Interplay boards. Having people think I'm nuts, retraded, or just plain weird isn't new or anything. Not even (or espicially) in RL.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Elwro, talking about not withdrawling, monsters in TOEE never run ever (then again, that goes for almost any game ).

Did you ever play Throne Of Darkness?

Once I got used to controlling my characters, I was actually able to start paying attention in battles. I was quite amazed to see the monsters actually using tactics against me. They even withdrew if wounded severely, alot of times wandering into a bigger group of monsters for protection. Now, I am not saying it's the best AI I've seen in an RPG, but it was definitely good.

Oh, and has anyone here played an action/rpg called Akuma? Came out in '99. If anyone has, what were your thoughts on it? Is it even worth the $9 I saw it being sold for?

Oh, and Wal-Mart is selling Throne Of Darkness for $4.77 if you can find it. Definitely worth that price.

 

[Transcendent One]

Bugbears going through half a dozen attacks of opportunity and Volourn not playing with any NPC's?

Gee, how many fighters do you have, seven?

 

[Volourn]

No, I didn't. isn't good? (HAHA! I alreayd know the answer since you are reccomednding)

Questions:

1. Turn base or Real time or IE/NWN/KOTOR like?

2. Are the stories, and characters good?

3. Is combat fun?

4. How's the system set up?

5. Is it an action rpg, or is it ana ctual rpg as I've ehard tales of it?

6. Are these questions annoying you? (I hope so! :D )

Greyahwk: 3 fighters (or mc characters), and a cleric. 2 of the fighters have good dex, and that feat 9can't think of the name) that allows you multiple AOO each round against various oppoents (i know not the same). Ok, ok, I *lied* err... exgagerated.. it's 3-4 AOO; and sometimes the mage gets one too depending on the bugbear's reach..

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Then again, Vol, this all boils down to system configurations and what I said earlier about them. It runs fine on your system and not on mine. Whereas you encountered bugs with TOEE and I did not encounter a one.

Well, until I started crafting items and stuff on my third time through. Then I had problems.

So, by that credence, all games are gonna be buggy from the start for some people while they run fine for others. It's unavoidable. There's a ton of different configuration possibilities out there and no way to QA a game on them all without taking a bazillion years before releasing it. But when a game is buggy on ANY configuration, that's unacceptable.

 

[Volourn]

Are you training to be a diplomatic?
Heh. Yeah. Well.. I think it's always unacceptable to have game problems on any sytem that meets the requirements; but alas it's the way it works. It sucks how "random" it is at times with computers.

Take, TOEE for example. For 10-20 hours; other than few bugs here and there; it works perfectly. Then it craps out for some unexplicable reason for the next half of the game then it all of asudden starts working again. however, by that time,. i had enough of the game and moved on...

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

1. Turn base or Real time or IE/NWN/KOTOR like?

2. Are the stories, and characters good?

3. Is combat fun?

4. How's the system set up?

5. Is it an action rpg, or is it ana ctual rpg as I've ehard tales of it?

6. Are these questions annoying you? (I hope so! :D )

Answers:

1. Real time.

2. Yes, but it's nothing major since it's an action/rpg like Diablo II. Feudal Japan. You play seven samurai raised from the dead to fight a demon legion threatening your province.

3. Not at first, but once you get the hang of it, it can be. Think Diablo 2 with four characters at once.

4. It plays almost exactly like Diablo 2, but the graphics are way better IMO. And the environments are wickedly delicious as far as looks go.

5. I answered this for you in 3 above.

6. Nah. I like to know what I can about a game before I consider purchasing it, so I understand.

Bottom line: It's nothing SPECTACULAR, but it's a good game. Especially for the $5 price tag on it at this time.

 

[Volourn]

Diablo 2......'Nough said...


P.S. Thanks for the answers; though.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Diablo 2......'Nough said...


P.S. Thanks for the answers; though.

Actually, you still might wanna give it a try. I didn't care for Diablo 2 and I still find myself liking this game for some reason. Maybe it's just the setting. I don't know. It was frustrating at first learning how to deal with the nuances of controlling a party in RT, but once I got the hang of it, I found myself liking it alot. And, like I said, for $5 it's a good diversion.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Diablo 2......'Nough said...

And yet you claim the NWN OC is good.

 

[EEVIAC]

Throne of Darkness had the best opening movie I've ever witnessed in a game. Unfortunately the game that followed wasn't so good. If I ever find it for $10 AUD I'll probably get it, but the combat reminded me a lot of Harbinger.

 

[Volourn]

SP: And, yet you claim TOEE is good.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The appeal of TOEE for me was the fact that it was something different. I played through it three different times, but found myself stopping short of my fourth completion and uninstalling the game. Just got tired of it. Felt like I was beating a dead horse and it wasn't gonna go anywhere. To be perfectly honest, I don't particularly care for the game now. I liked it, but the novelty finally wore off. :/

 

[Volourn]

Um.. You played it 3 times. You caee for it. A lot. I don't even play games I love more than 3 times fully befoee it's time to move on.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

No. I CARED for it. Past tense. Yes, I did love it when I played it. I played it all those times through just to use different party configurations and see how the game played differently. However, running through it the fourth time, it was nothing new at that point. I realized I had done and seen it all pretty much and that was all it took for me to become tired of it. Just like the time I gorged myself on watermelon on a friend's farm and got sick. Now I hate watermelon.

 

[Volourn]

You hate watermelon? You think I defend NWN too much? You ain't see nuthin' yet. Once again, you HATE watermelon? Watch your words carefully lest you regret the results of your folly! :twisted:

:shock: :wink:


P.S. Anyways, to stay somewhat on topic, you played the game three times, you enjoyed it enough to get your money's worth out of it, imo.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I definitely feel I got my money's worth out of the game. Troika did make a wonderful attempt at transferring the PnP module to PC game. Arcanum is still their best piece of work to date though. I would love to see a sequel that fixed all the problems of the original.

As far as watermelon goes, well, I used to love the stuff. Now even the smell of it makes me sick to my stomach. It's sad, really. Same goes for wine. Got so drunk on wine one night and then was sick for the next two days. Now I cannot even stand the smell of it either.