Review GameZone likes Bloodlines

[Txiasaeia]

NOTE: Could be some spoilers if you are a real stickler for that sort of thing.
...On a related note, talking to the guy who wants to know if you are "enlightened" I get no responses that would allow me to enter the building despite my high speech skills.

SPOILER! SPOILER!

You know that that building is part of one of the plaguebearer quests in LA, right?

END SPOILER!

What really got me choked about the game was the CTD when I tried to escape from the quest to find the austrian archaeologist, the now-infamous "boat crash." If anybody is facing the same problems as me, you need to do everything in that particular locale (you know what I mean), talk to the guy, run back to the boat, and type the following in:

SaveJohansen()
changelevel2 la_hub_1 taxi_landmark

This only works if you are not a Nosferatu. It took me forever to find this, so hopefully this'll help somebody out. One more note: the game runs kinda slow on my system (Athlon XP 2000+, 512MB 266MHz DDR, MSI Geforce 4 4200 128MB, 7200 RPM HD, 800x600 res) and I keep on trying to give it up b/c of the content (wife hates it), but it keeps on sucking me back in. Shows you how desperately I've been wanting a decent RPG!

 

[Bashan]

I hope Bloodlines doesn't go for that hack-and-slash-no-alternative-crap in later stages. I would just hate that.

It sadly does. It's really frustrating to spend all your exp on non-combat skills only to have the game force you through one unavoidable battle after the other.

I played the game with persuasion, security and hacking maxed out and in my experience it is just very inconsistent in allowing alternate solutions. Especially the later areas feel poorly designed and unpolished. Even if you can utilize non-combat skills they often end up feeling pretty useless and unnecessary. What's the point in maxing out your security skill, if the only thing you can do with it is avoiding one room or corridor only to continue fighting hordes of enemies afterwards?

 

[dojoteef]

SPOILER! SPOILER!

You know that that building is part of one of the plaguebearer quests in LA, right?

END SPOILER!

Yeah, that's why I said "on a related note". Why can't I solve the plaguebearer quest without violence is my problem. I thought if I could convince the guy to let me in I might be able to solve the quest without violence and without killing the other two plaguebearers (it's my second time doing the plaguebearer quest, first was Malkavian, now smoothtalking Ventrue).

 

[Vault Dweller]

I agree with you, dojo. These things bug me as well. I'm also playing a persuasive Ventrue who is also a Jedi wannabe so he does a Jedi mindtrick every now and then. Why can't I enter that "enlightened" building? There is a very stupid guy at the door and if I can't convince/dominate him, then my soft skills are useless save for some special occasions where I'm allowed to act the part. That definitely sucks.

What also sucks is the way persuasion is handled. I see some blue lines, but I don't see any persuasion. Without spoiling anything, take that beach house situation:

Teh bad guy: You must pay for stuff
PC [Persuasion] Can't I like pay you later?
Teh bad guy: Ok, 'cause it like made a lot of sense to me. I don't know why I didn't think of doing business that way before.

In comparison, tricking Lukan the bridge keeper in Arcanum felt like an actual persuasion that was more than a simple skillcheck.

 

[space captain]

the further i get in the game, the more linear it seems, and actually the less enjoyable it becomes... there are just way too many moments where things are very un-fleshed out and contrived - tons of NPCs you cant talk to, sharing about 5 or 6 of the same exact skinned models - and just alot of unresponsive or puzzling lack of NPC reactions... i dont think the merge between action and RPG did this game much justice... i think Troika should stick with pure RPGs because I really liked Arcanum and Fallout - but this just seems like a step backwards in essence... i know the flashy new tech and all that is here, but its just not necessary for the hardcore RPG crowd, and frankly I doubt if this will attract all the huge numebrs of new fans they might have anticipated

 

[Volourn]

Wow! the negativeity is starting to pile up... That is bad and is scaring me as mucha s I can get scared which isn't much... :twisted:

 

[dojoteef]

Yeah I have to agree with you space captain, I liked Arcanum and Fallout better. They were also MUCH more freeform. You could go where you wanted when you wanted (except for a few minor places). Bloodlines does seem a step back. I think they went the road of trying to cater to both FPS and RPG people and didn't come out as far ahead as they thought.

I do wonder what they could do if given more time and manpower. I think that is the biggest problem they face.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Some of you fuckwits who posted in this thread should have used hypothetical situations instead of posting gigantic amounts of spoilers without any warning whatsoever. It's nice and all that you're trying to make your point but when suddenly words like "Chinatown" and "that Malkavian, the..." with direct references to "the artifact" pops up you need to shut the fuck up. Not everyone here has finished the game.

Look at VD's posts as examples of how you should post. I won't touch of the subject of the game's linearity because I'm only in Hollywood at the moment and choices do seem to affect the overall game even if it doesn't seem too apparent at first. I didn't like the appendage of the alternate and smaller quests in Arcanum because the game felt utterly pointless at times. It didn't have any drive and oft times you could accidentally botch a few quests by killing someone without even knowing it. Fallout was better than that, and also had far less quests, and in my opinion Vampire is a little closer to Fallout than Arcanum was in terms of questing though the linearity of the hubs may bug some.

 

[Volourn]

"Some of you fuckwits who posted in this thread should have used hypothetical situations instead of posting gigantic amounts of spoilers without any warning whatsoever."

I agree.

You win.

Your reward?

Me responding to you again.

Yeah, I know. You now feel like a loser. :D

 

[Bashan]

and just alot of unresponsive or puzzling lack of NPC reactions

It seems like nearly all of the NPC conversations consist of two things:

1. Mission text. Fetch me this/that.
2. Explanations about clans/factions, etc

To me, they lack depth and personality. There are some hints about e.g. characters' past here and there but nothing's ever fleshed out.

 

[Sol Invictus]

That's untrue, Bashan. You're making it sound like a binary choice. By my reckoning, you can turn down several quests and argue with them upon the mission specifics, the rewards, and change even the outcomes. This is no Redemption.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wow! the negativeity is starting to pile up... That is bad and is scaring me as mucha s I can get scared which isn't much... :twisted:

It's still a very good RPG, Volly. Way better than many other games including KOTOR.

 

[Volourn]

"Way better than many other games including KOTOR."

Your opinion doens't count here since you think KOTOR sucks so even if it is "better" than KOTOR; that doens't say much.

P.S. This is not me saying the game sucks. Oh contraire, I'm expectinga good game. Then again, I expected TOEE to be good too. :D :wink:

 

[Vault Dweller]

To me, they lack depth and personality. There are some hints about e.g. characters' past here and there but nothing's ever fleshed out.

Like Exitium said, it's simply not true. One thing the game doesn't lack is the personality.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I'm enjoying it. Sure, I've been forced into combat, but I've put enough into that area that I'm holding my own. Plus, I'm a stickler for exploring. I will rape every nook and cranny of an area for all it's worth. Guess that's helped me out alot too as I had almost three grand before even thinking about reporting to the Prince for the first time.

While it's definitely not as freeform as Arcanum or Fallout, it still has a rich enough diversity to keep me happy. Sure, I've been starved for a decent RPG lately, but even if I had just got done playing Arcanum for the first time, I'm quite sure I would enjoy this game just as much as I am now.

But this also brings up a point I've been making ever since my inception into the Codex here: Good graphics do not a good game make. And while I'm sure Darksign would disagree with me on this, I don't care. If they had opted for a less prettier engine, they could have easily made this freeform on par with the likes of Arcanum. Instead, they were limited because they were working with an engine that they were not all too familiar with like Valve is. I have no doubt it's not easy modifying a graphically advanced engine such as Source to support RPG rules and such.

For what they've done though, I am happy. Even with it's bugs, it beats the likes of KOTOR and NWN into the ground. I hope they do another but preferably in a different setting. I think with the knowledge they've learned from this game, their next one could possibly be ALOT more freeform and manage to knock our socks off.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

To me, they lack depth and personality. There are some hints about e.g. characters' past here and there but nothing's ever fleshed out.

Like Exitium said, it's simply not true. One thing the game doesn't lack is the personality.

Well, either he's brain dead or a Vulcan and expects them to have no emotions or some such tripe. I love the personality they've given these NPCs. Heck, Damsel is probably one of my fave NPCs in a video game. One tough bitch who I would NOT want to piss off even if she wasn't kindred. And she's a babe to boot.

But seriously, on another note, if you do enough digging, you can get background on alot of the major npcs. Just not from the person in question. Usually you have to talk to other people to get the lowdown on someone else. Vampires don't tend to spill their "heart" to just anyone. But they usually do to someone. Just gotta find that person and ask the right questions.

 

[Bashan]

That's untrue, Bashan. You're making it sound like a binary choice. By my reckoning, you can turn down several quests and argue with them upon the mission specifics, the rewards, and change even the outcomes. This is no Redemption.

That's what I meant actually. Didn't make it too clear. You can either talk about mission related stuff, like rewards, with them or listen to some explanation or another. It feels like they are just there to point you towards your next task instead of being believable characters within the setting. If you take away the voice mannerisms they become almost interchangable imo.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I don't know what you're getting at.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Three grand? Wow! Now that's what I call exploring. That should be made into a special skill or a trait in future RPGs:

Otaku Hanzo's exploring technique: There are stashes of money everywhere, your talent is to find them all. You must learn to think like a stasher, evaluating every in-game object and location, asking yourself "where would I stash some money here".

 

[dojoteef]

That's untrue, Bashan. You're making it sound like a binary choice. By my reckoning, you can turn down several quests and argue with them upon the mission specifics, the rewards, and change even the outcomes. This is no Redemption.

What makes you think that's the case? Like I said I'm playing as a super smooth Ventrue, and I can't really turn down quests and argue about mission specifics, at least not in the main storyline. Heck the one time I turned down a quest I got dicked over. The thing I turned down happened anyway and I didn't get the experience that I would have if I agreed to do the quest. That just feels shitty. I wisht they gave me a viable alternative. You are correct that this is no Redemption. That game was linear as all hell. I did like Redemption though (after it was patched) despite the linearity.

So far I can say that Bloodlines has more depth than KOTOR, but you can find that out for yourself Volourn.

Otaku, I agree with you about using the Source engine. Imagine if they made the game using an engine like Vice City. I think it would have allowed the game to be more freeform without having to worry so much about the graphics. I imagine doing all the facial animation stuff was a real bitch and took a ridiculous amount of time.

 

[Volourn]

"I did like Redemption"

You lose. Your opinion following this has just lost some believability. Redemption was awful and had NO redeeming qualities and doesn't deserve redemption.

R00fles!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Three grand? Wow! Now that's what I call exploring. That should be made into a special skill or a trait in future RPGs:

Otaku Hanzo's exploring technique: There are stashes of money everywhere, your talent is to find them all. You must learn to think like a stasher, evaluating every in-game object and location, asking yourself "where would I stash some money here".

Hahaha!

Well, what it boils down to is me doing every quest I could get my grubby hands on and using the experience wisely. My Toreador is a seductress when it comes to socializing, but out in the field she's a thief through and through. Hacking, stealth, and lockpicking. Heck, I finished the Dane without being spotted once and without killing anyone. Sure, my melee or firearms isn't that great, but that's what Celerity and the shotgun is for.

Pumping points into my thief skills has allowed me the luxury of breaking codes for safes and whatnot. Plus, finding rings here and there as well as other sellable goods really helped alot too. There's some motherlode stashes hidden around the areas. You just have to have the right skills to acquire them.

Edit: Well, I should also point out that I am extremely anal when it comes to exploring. I will leave no stone unturned. Heck, if I see a black spot on a mini map, I do everything in my power to squash it like the annoying bug it is.

 

[Volourn]

"Well, I should also point out that I am extremely anal when it comes to exploring. I will leave no stone unturned. Heck, if I see a black spot on a mini map, I do everything in my power to squash it like the annoying bug it is."

That's a sign of poor role-playing unless every single character is anal epxlorer type. Of course, I'm sometimes guilty of doing that myself. Either way, it's poor role-playing form, imo.

 

[Bashan]

I don't know what you're getting at.

Tough to explain without spoilering.
For example, there is one fairly important character who adds "boss" to almost every sentence and talks in a menacing voice. That's his only distinguishable feature tough. He gives you your mission lowdown and some explanations but that's it. They didn't bother giving him any depth beyond these superficialities. He simply disappears after the mission is over. Other characters don't acknowledge that you completed missions for them or you are unable to talk to them afterwards. They just give you missions in different voices. It's all paper thin.

 

[dojoteef]

Redemption did a lot of nice things. I'd put it on par with KOTOR.