Review GameZone likes Bloodlines

[Volourn]

No. BL may end up being better than KOTOR. it sounds like a possibility; but Redemption was awful. It was POR2/MW/EOTB awful. Absolutely disgusting piece of shit of a game.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

That's a sign of poor role-playing unless every single character is anal epxlorer type. Of course, I'm sometimes guilty of doing that myself. Either way, it's poor role-playing form, imo.

It's something I wouldn't do in a PnP RPG, that's for sure. But in the video game realm I do. Not because I find more stuff that way, but simply because it's good for helping others out and for the purpose of walkthroughs as well as sniffing out bugs. While I am a roleplayer, I am also a hardcore video gamer, and it's that side of me that cries out for exploring every aspect of a game. Heck, even if I can't get up that pile of rocks in an FPS, I'm sure as hell gonna give it my all anyways. You'd be surprised just how many map errors I've found this way that no one else would even think about.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, I can understand that. Like I said, I sometimes find myself doing the very same thing and I just shake my head at it.

 

[coaxmetal]

It's something I wouldn't do in a PnP RPG, that's for sure. But in the video game realm I do. Not because I find more stuff that way, but simply because it's good for helping others out and for the purpose of walkthroughs as well as sniffing out bugs. While I am a roleplayer, I am also a hardcore video gamer, and it's that side of me that cries out for exploring every aspect of a game. Heck, even if I can't get up that pile of rocks in an FPS, I'm sure as hell gonna give it my all anyways. You'd be surprised just how many map errors I've found this way that no one else would even think about.

Come to think of it, it takes an organized mind to be a quality roleplayer. An organized mind does organized things, in organized manners, which returns the enjoyable feeling of knowing that you took care of everything there was to be taken care of. Like playing expart in Thief. In some cases, you can only achieve that by replaying, trying alternate solutions, trying different character types, or else it would be impossible to find everything, and i'm not talking item-related.
I'm still trying to see if Bloodlines will allow me this, because this is exactly the sort of player I am. If not, I tend to be dissapointed, and I don't want it to be the case with BL.

 

[Old Scratch]

I don't know what you're getting at.

Tough to explain without spoilering.
For example, there is one fairly important character who adds "boss" to almost every sentence and talks in a menacing voice. That's his only distinguishable feature tough. He gives you your mission lowdown and some explanations but that's it. They didn't bother giving him any depth beyond these superficialities. He simply disappears after the mission is over. Other characters don't acknowledge that you completed missions for them or you are unable to talk to them afterwards. They just give you missions in different voices. It's all paper thin.

SPOILERS: DON'T READ BELOW IF YOU HAVEN'T MET GARY YET

Bashan, not to sound like an asshole, but it seems you're being exceptionally nitpicky, or trying to mislead...especially considering the example you gave.

Gary didn't have any dialogue other than giving you a mission and some explanations?

Did you fall asleep in the beginning where he's in the shadows playing mind games with you and taunting you, trying to get you intimidated or riled up? You saw no personality coming through in that whole lengthy exchange?

I got into an insult slinging fest with him because he was carrying on about how Toreadors are fools, clinging to life and vanity. He reveals crassly, if you probe him about it, how he used to be a famous actor before he got turned. That character was dripping fucking personality, and is probably one of the most memorable NPCs I've seen in a game. I mean, you don't have time to go out for drinks and get into a long philosophical discussion with him, but in the brief time you're dealing with him face to face, there's a very distinct personality there. It's the same for the vast majority of characters in Bloodlines.

The female Nosferatu who used to be a model gives you an idea about what a cruel, but clever bastard Gary can be too when talking about him.

Artificial Intelligence isn't quite to the point where it can be used for dynamic, unique characters in a video game that you can converse with all day. So if its the fact that the conversations can always become exhausted in the game that disappoints you, try lowering your expectations a bit.

I've knocked Troika in the past for their writing and dialogue of their NPCs, it has generally seemed to lack heart to me in both Arcanum and especially TOEE, but they really got it right in Bloodlines. The characters are on par with Fallout and PS:T for me.

END SPOILER

Now for the things in the game that I wish could have been better, since everyone is doing it:

- Don't like the whole thing with your sire. Why would she risk her exsistence for some dude she met one night in a bar? And why doesn't my character care to know about his sire at all, even though I think he should?

- Could have done without the forced, dungeon-like areas. Even though there's only a few, they seem like filler, and the game has enough substance already without needing it. Maybe they were trying to keep the dungeon crawlers entertained.

- Persuasion, seduction, and intimidation could have been used to better effect. Seduction has its uses as it, but I've only changed the outcome of a situation once with persuasion, the rest of the time it might as well have been a basic dialogue option. You should be able to gain access to areas and information you otherwise couldn't with one of those three skills too.

- I wish some of your feeding ho's had new stuff to say or something, or more personality in general. Maybe some comments about how they feel out of sorts after you've shown up. They start to seem like blood piggy banks after a while. Then again, that's probably how most vampires would view humans anyway.

That's all I can really think of. Of course there's always stuff I'd like added to a game, but I imagine Troika squeezed in just about all they could in the amount of time they had and there's really a lot there already. It also seems non-linear to me...it's no Fallout, but nothing is. Overall, Bloodlines has been one of the most enjoyable games I've had the experience of playing. Top five for sure.

 

[CloudNine]

Only changed the outcome once? I use persuasion almost every conversation I have, always to my benefit.

 

[Seven]

Only changed the outcome once? I use persuasion almost every conversation I have, always to my benefit.

Yeah, persuasion rocks, I even got the Prince to comp me $500 big ones.

 

[Old Scratch]

Maybe I'm wrong about that one then. Most of the time when I've used it, the person just ends up telling me to piss off anyway, only nicer. I didn't have it above 5 though, maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Bashan]

Bashan, not to sound like an asshole, but it seems you're being exceptionally nitpicky

Yeah, you're probably right. Stems from my overall frustration with the game towards the end I guess. I liked it in the beginning but found it to be quite a letdown later on. Storywise and gameplaywise.

 

[dojoteef]

Only changed the outcome once? I use persuasion almost every conversation I have, always to my benefit.

Okay, that's bs. I say not more than half the conversations you have let you use persuasion, if it's even that large a number. So I don't see how you can say almost every conversation. I've got a Ventrue with high persuasion and seduction, so that's how I know. Try to be a bit more realistic when you claim these things. It's either that, or for some reason my game just isn't the same game you're playing.

 

[space captain]

well of course its better than KOTOR or NWN, but this is Troika were talking about (yes im a fanboy) ... i guess i was expecting their next "big thing" and I suppose those kinds of expectations are always a mistake... but still - i cant help but feel like the pandering to a lesser RPG fandom has hurt what could have been a much different (and much better) game.... all in all some very troubling medicine to take

although from what has been said it seems like they had to go this route to even get the project off the ground.... but these guys practically invented (and further refined) the whole dialog tree system - its a goddamn given they would get that shit right... but the cool atmosphere is constantly broken by all the dopey unresponsiveness and shallowness of the world in general - the quests are CLEARLY defined and CLEARLY setup - often in very restrictive ways that seem like it was specifically instanced at request... doors that magically unlock only after the right conversation and that sort of thing... its just too contrived to really appeal to my hardcore tastes

i thought that with a smaller game such as this they could have more intricately woven quests together and allowed for alot more open ended ways of things happening - but its not really like that - it often gives me a "quest on rails" feeling

again, as an RPG its good - but as a Troika game its actually a dissapointment to me... not as bad as TOEE by any means, but still dissapointing..... damn I hope they can break this trend

 

[plin]

I just got this game yesterday. Man was I surprised. This is the best gaming experience I've had since playing through the two fallouts.

Not much else to say. It's just an amazing game (at least compared to it's competition). Kotor, NWN, and all those other rpg hack games that are praised so highly pale in comparison. It's a sad thing.

The only bugs I've encountered so far were jittery animations in the opening cutscene (but they were pretty bad).

 

[Sol Invictus]

The quests really aren't as linear or 'on rails' as people seem to think they are. It may just seem that way if they don't bother to talk to all the NPCs or if they don't have proper speech skills. Just now, I managed to join the Anarchs, who told me to stay undercover in the Camarilla. I was given this option after completing the Plaguebearer missions. It's really subtle, and I would have simply missed it if I decided not to call the cute Anarch girl a 'bitch, but in a good way'. That's something. She didn't take offense, either. It was a compliment to her.

The game plays heavy attention to psychology and the a lot of the characters don't take offense from the 'rude' dialogue option as they would in any other game.

Oh yeah, I've also found several points where my Finance skill was used in dialogue. Upon doing Fat Larry's quest I was given the opportunity to haggle for a better offer as a reward for his quest: a discount for all his merchandise. I tried doing it without my 2 points in Finance and it wasn't available.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The quests really aren't as linear or 'on rails' as people seem to think they are. It may just seem that way if they don't bother to talk to all the NPCs or if they don't have proper speech skills. Just now, I managed to join the Anarchs, who told me to stay undercover in the Camarilla.

That's so the story can stay linear and not have to branch.

 

[Bashan]

i thought that with a smaller game such as this they could have more intricately woven quests together and allowed for alot more open ended ways of things happening

There are of course budget and development time restrictions to consider but if I could choose between having more non-linearity and neat facial animations I would know how to prioritize. It's proof of the sad state the industry is currently in if a studio like Troika feels the need to just go for the flashy stuff instead.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

There are of course budget and development time restrictions to consider but if I could choose between having more non-linearity and neat facial animations I would know how to prioritize. It's proof of the sad state the industry is currently in if a studio like Troika feels the need to just go for the flashy stuff instead.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. While I love Bloodlines, I would have loved it even more had they opted for a less graphically orgasmic engine and went for one that they knew better and could do more with. I think then they could have allowed for alot more freeform to the game in the time alloted. Bob Mandel at Adrenaline Vault just wrote a good article about this very subject on 3D versus content. You can read it by clicking on my current signature.

 

[Whipporowill]

While I agree with the point, I'd say that the facial animations brings quite a lot to the game. While I hope Troika uses their own engine for their next game, I sure hope there's some kind of talking heads like these - I absolutly love them.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Oh, and I agree. I just wish they would have had more time to learn the intricacies of Source better so they could have gotten more out of it. As I said though, I love the game utterly as is. Best RPG I've played since FO and Arcanum.

 

[Bashan]

While I agree with the point, I'd say that the facial animations brings quite a lot to the game. While I hope Troika uses their own engine for their next game, I sure hope there's some kind of talking heads like these - I absolutly love them.

To me it seems that, in RPGs at least, introducing these kinds of graphical features is a double-edged sword. On the one hand they improve the immersivness of the game by adding to the believability of the characters, but on the other hand, the more advanced they become, the more options there are, the more time will it take to implement them.
That leads to less time for other features like non-linearity, resulting in less immersivness.
In effect, you add on side and substract on the other. The only way out of this would be longer development cycles, more money, etc. But then, you would have to sell even more games and cater to the lowest common denominator to make a profit.

 

[Txiasaeia]

Finished the game last night, and I found it incredibly linear. Again, for those who don't want to ruin anything (I'll be very general):

SPOILER
















What was the point of playing a persuasive character if there was nearly no point of it throughout most of the game? The end levels, for example, had little to no dialog options that could change anything (I had 7 persuasion). I felt completely ripped off by the ending ("From Jack "), too - what were they thinking?










END SPOILER

Early game showed a lot of promise (ghost house, asylum stuff), but as it wore on it degraded into a combat-fest. If I were to play it again I'd be solely a combat character, but I really don't think I could spend the time and effort to go through the entire game again.

HOWEVER, the characters were freaking awesome - Jack, Jeanette & Gary were very memorable characters. Too bad the plot didn't turn out as well.

 

[space captain]

Exitium, you assume way too much. I have a persuasion of 7 as well. I joined the anarchs, like you.. and I also persuaded Fat Larry to give me a discount on his merchandise. I tak to everyone and always choose the options that will draw out the conversation. I persuaded the Gargoyle to join the anarchs of Hollywood, and Ive done plenty of the quests multiple times in different ways just to see what happens.

My opinion about the game's linearity still stands. Why dont you admit your opinions are just that as well: opinions. You dont have the authority on other peoples subjective reality.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The moon is made of cheese.

No. Really. It is.

 

[Spazmo]

Hey, where the hell is Fat Larry anyways? I was expecting to see him out in front of the truck in an alley Downtown, but there he ain't. And where do you get better clothes? I've made it to Chinatown and I'm still wearing the jeans and shirt.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Fat Larry is behind the truck which is located at the front of the entrance to the underground parking lot in Downtown. To the right of the Ventrue tower when facing it. As for better armor, I'm not sure. I just got the museum quest and I too am still in my light armor.

 

[Shevek]

Hey, where the hell is Fat Larry anyways? I was expecting to see him out in front of the truck in an alley Downtown, but there he ain't. And where do you get better clothes? I've made it to Chinatown and I'm still wearing the jeans and shirt.

I got my heavy leather gear from the merchant in Chinatown.