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NWN Gargaune's Greater Guide to Enjoying Neverwinter Nights 2

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,207
NWN1 [...] the combat is just so, so lacking in strategy that I can't stay interested.
Might have some advice for that too... [1] [2] If you can't stand the combat at all, it won't magically turn things around, but if you're vaguely on the cusp, it might just make the difference.

Doesn't help that I was having to play the game at a lower resolution to make text readable either
The EE has a feature for UI scaling. And the new postprocessing shaders add a bit of vibrance to the visuals - again, it's not night-and-day, but I definitely prefer them over the DE looks.


But boom! THEY'VE FUCKING FIXED THE FUCKING CAMERA!! :bounce: And what a difference it's making!
WHO? WHEN? WHERE?!
Obviously, Falksi was using the royal plural to refer to me and my authoritative advice.

Right?

Riiiight?

No, I'm guessing he's talking about the Strategy Mode camera that was added post-launch, the Storm of Zehir build if memory serves.
 

Spike

Educated
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Messages
603
You could have had one sentence in your OP: "Just don't play EE."
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
The western road to Erromon.
So I just hit Act II and went a bit into it and I'm very pleased to report that so far this game completely lives up to the hype. One of the marks of a great story in an RPG is the ability to feel many strings pulling you in the same direction and to be excited to see what happens when they converge. I'm completely switched on by this, my character is responding to clues and adding his own insight due to having a high lore score and I think I have a pretty good idea of what's going on, while still remaining sufficiently in the dark about many things. None of it feels railroady. Gameplay is good, difficult to keep my character alive due to his class (Bard) and my laziness at reacquainting myself with it after such a long hiatus, but not too difficult to be frustrating with the rest of the party involved. It's a nice balance. Music is great, dark and about on par NWN 1. It also pleases me that I'm in an area of the Forgotten Realms that I'm not overly familiar with other than snippets from Minsc and Dynaheir in BG. In contrast to the vaguely Norse feel of Icewind Dale, Mulsantir and Rashemaar kinda feel like the Old Slavic east. Lots of trade going on by both road and river, councils of witches and secret covens of hags surround in a thick blanket of shamanistic mysticism and nature worship. It feels nice to hear strange words attached to bits of lore that I've never heard before, it's like I'm exploring the setting for the first time again and I haven't felt that way in over 20 years. I think I'll post some guesses about how I think the story is going to go based on what I know so far below before wrapping up with some minor gripes. Spoilers beyond this point.

So, due to intrigues of beyond my control, my character has become a spirit-eater, a curse that was originally transmitted down the lines from the original Betrayer, a high priest of Myrkul that assaulted Myrkul's domain due to a perceived injustice relating to the fate of his beloved. The Sword of Gith and possibly the shard? were once in the possession of this priest and have been taken from me "For love." (We'll get back to this.). Where once the shard was, an emptiness now exists, both figurative and literal, that can never be filled and with it a hunger.

One of my first major gripes is that upon waking up, my character didn't seem to give a shit that all of his friends just died horribly, especially Elanee who he'd become romantic with in the OC. They're never once mentioned until the start
of Act II and it almost makes my character seem like a bit of a psychopath because it's not as if he doesn't know what happened. I get why this was done design-wise, because not every player would be coming to MotB from the OC, especially since the OC was so average, but still. I can't help but feel that at least some sort of underlying sadness should be evident every so often in dialogue, especially companion dialogue, if nothing else. Eventually, the game let us know that Khelgar and Amon Jerro made it out alive, which is nice I guess but they weren't the the closest to my character. Also seems that Sand was definitely killed by the cave-in and at least two others are dead for certain, though those may have been Bishop and Qara which I killed myself due to their betrayal. That still leaves Elanee, Nishka, Zhjaeve, Grobnar and Casavir missing and presumed dead. That's a big deal character-wise and I almost wonder if it wouldn't have been better for MotB's MC to have just been an entirely separate character. Remains to be seen if the Sword of Gith's role is truly indispensable to the main plot or whether some other contrivance could have been substituted.

The first companion I met was Safiya, a cute Thayan waifu who found me in a barrow after the Sword of Gith and the shard had been stolen from me. In truth, I didn't pay close enough attention to why she was there at the right place at the right time. I know she tells you when you first meet her, but I don't remember what she said. (If anyone remembers, please let me know.) What I do remember is that it felt a little too convenient. Apparently, she hears voices in her head sometimes that warn her of impending dangers. (Though, she is bald and covered in tatoos so just post-university mental illness right? Riiight.) I think she may have been sent away by her mother, who is the mistress of an academy in Thay which is in rebellion against her. Her mother has rivals or a rival that iirc, was a quiet scholarly type who suddenly tried to overthrow her. I guess she sent her daughter to find her friend who was a former red wizard now running a theater company in exile or something? I have the feeling that Safiya isn't telling me the whole story and perhaps even to the point that she too was involved in my affliction. (Another Betrayer or layer of betrayal down the road.)

Next up we have Gann, some sort of half-breed that loves giving chicks the time of their lives in dreams, but that's just a mask he wears to distract himself from the pain of being an outcast with no one to trust and no family or something. He reminds me a lot of Atton from KotOR II. He's hurt and will hurt others in turn because that's the way of the world, but it doesn't need to be so. I don't really know what his deal is yet, it seems Kaelyn can see right through him though and it seems like this is the echo of the "Mask" idea. That everyone has a mask they wear and sooner or later they must decide between what they present and what they hide. To a lesser extent whether he wants a place in the real or the ethereal. It's very Avellonian and intriguing.

Then there's Kaelyn the Dove. "Mr. Kelemvor tear down this wall!" - Innocent, naïve angelic bae and ex-priestess of Kelemvor who cannot stand the perceived injustice of the Wall of the Faithless, a thing that's crafted by the Gods of Death out of the souls of non-believers as punishment for their lack of faith in any god to the point she was thrown out of Ilmater's hall for leading a second failed assault(?) upon the wall some time after the original Betrayer's assault failed. This is something that I have a hard time swallowing for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I find it difficult to believe that in a world where Gods unambiguously fell from the heavens in a well-known cataclysmic event (admittedly I'm not sure how long ago the Time of Troubles was to the game's timeline) that anyone could possess sufficient doubt or scorn to be an actual atheist. To Kaelyn's credit, she mentions children, newborns and savages on the bottom of the sea or folk on other planes that had no access to revelation and I think "Okay, fine... but..." The Christian in me thinks that if such a wall exists and all three Gods of the Dead, regardless of temperament and morality came to the same conclusion that: "Yeah, maybe this thing that we've just inherited should stay exactly as it is and we shouldn't fuck around with it." then there's probably a damn good reason for it, even if that reason is currently unknown to mortals or angels. Through Kaelyn's empathetic good nature, the game seems desperate to convince the player that the wall is unjust, while as of yet providing no plausible or compelling counterargument. It's again similar to KotOR II where Kreia is desperately trying to convince you that the Force is malicious. I have a feeling that much later in the game a counterargument will be given as a revelation, perhaps to the shock of everyone, especially my Bard who is a hopeless romantic at heart. I have a feeling that the wall may be required to give power to all the Gods to exercise their portfolio and they do a lot more good than harm on balance. As a player though, I'm having a hard time biting my tongue when what I really want to say is: "How the hell could you possibly know that the alternative to the wall isn't worse?" or as is available, but out of character: "Another case of love ruining a perfectly good working relationship." - Oh Chris, if only you knew... :smug:

The only thing I really fear is if the Wall of the Faithless turns out to be exactly what Kaelyn describes it as, just an arbitrary punishment because (insert mid-2000s religion bad! cringe here). I really hope it's deeper than that, at least to the point where the two camps can be reconciled through a new covenant for the genuinely ignorant or something.

Just got the Okku the Bear, nothing to say really, seems he was connected to one of the curse-bearers after the original Betrayer died and that bearer somehow managed to contain the Spirit-Eater curse in the runestones in the barrow that I woke up beside at the start of the game. Whoever put me there probably did it to begin the cycle anew for reasons unknown to me currently.

Lastly, we have the Red Woman and the White Woman. From what I gather, I think the White Woman is Akachi's (the first Betrayer's) beloved who didn't believe in any Gods and that Akachi was somehow successful in saving her life even though his crusade against Myrkul failed and he suffered the curse. A former Red Wizard of Thay, she lived out her days in exile and sadness in Mulsantir until she's approached by the Red Woman sometime before the game starts and her entire mood changes according to her friends. I'd hazard a guess that the Red Woman told/lied of a possibility to save Akachi from the wall but I think in the end she was betrayed by the Red Woman. I think that the Red Woman probably convinced her that in order to get her beloved back she needed to take the Sword of Gith and the Shard from my character's body. Possibly something only she could do since she was connected to their former owner. In a vision when touching the operating table, a woman remorsefully echoes "For love." when removing the shard, something that Kaelyn mentioned word for word as the motivation of Akachi the Betrayer. Like poetry, it rhymes. Successful, the Woman in White was betrayed by the Woman in Red who ordered her death previously. We know that there's a portal between the theater where the operation took place and the barrow where my character's body was left post-op. I think the Red Woman, or possibly Safiya put my character there, now empty, a perfect vessel for the spirit-eater which was imprisoned in the place I was dumped. I strongly suspect that the Red Woman is Safiya's mother, who wanted the Sword of Gith and possibly the Spirit Eater Curse to combat the rebels at her school or for some other reason not yet known to me. Safiya's mother is supposed to be dead according to the White Woman's murderers but I think that's just a bit of theater to throw the player off the trail. Probably faked her own death to buy time or to better dupe her daughter into guiding me some other purpose down the road. Possibly another layer of betrayal if Safiya is in on it. Remains to be seen. Please no spoilers, thanks.


Anyway, that's about all I can think of besides the fact that I'm really enjoying the echoing themes of masks, love and betrayal within the story so far. As mentioned, it reminds me a lot of KotOR II, where seemingly unimportant words in character dialogue come back to comfort or bite you later. Seems like there's a lot of C&C with dialogue options, just as there was in the OC but even more of them. High lore skill plays a huge role, and some of my attributes have come into play as well. I wonder what other info could have been available had I been better at different skills/attributes. Looking forward to playing more.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,207
KörangarTheMighty, I won't comment on your speculations because I don't want to spoil the rest of the game for you, but I'm glad you seem to be enjoying it enough to stimulate such ruminations. I'll only make the following observations at this point:

- Yes, MotB would've been better off entirely disconnected from the events of the OC, but by the game's release, marketing "wisdom" already held that sequels and especially expansions must be direct continuations with the same protagonist to bait in as many return customers as possible.

- Both the original Bhaalspawn Saga in Baldur's Gate (so excluding BG3) and Mask of the Betrayer are direct (albeit non-canon, according to WotC) successors to the Avatar series of novels that cover the Time of Troubles which ushered in the Forgotten Realms' 2E fiction. The fourth novel in the series deals extensively with Kelemvor and the concept of The Wall and its rationales. They're not terrible books, they're not great either (aside from the fifth and final volume, which is hilarious) but they're worth checking out if you're a fan of BG and MotB. Obviously, after you finish the game at this point.

- The MotB cast are a cut above the usual RPG fare and congruous with the overall artistic direction - notice their mannerisms, how everyone is consistently sober and rational? Even the psychotic wraith and the colourful bear, there's nothing goofy or slapstick about them, their "eccentricities" are purely an unsettling reminder of their otherworldly natures, not infantile comedy. Gann and Kaelyn were written by Avellone, Safiya, Okku and One of Many were written by Zeits and/or Fenstermaker, I don't have a precise lead.
 
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
1,391
Location
The western road to Erromon.
- Both the original Bhaalspawn Saga in Baldur's Gate (so excluding BG3) and Mask of the Betrayer are direct (albeit non-canon, according to WotC) successors to the Avatar series of novels that cover the Time of Troubles which ushered in the Forgotten Realms' 2E fiction. The fourth novel in the series deals extensively with Kelemvor and the concept of The Wall and its rationales. They're not terrible books, they're not great either (aside from the fifth and final volume, which is hilarious) but they're worth checking out if you're a fan of BG and MotB. Obviously, after you finish the game at this point.

- The MotB cast are a cut above the usual RPG fare and congruous with the overall artistic direction - notice their mannerisms, how everyone is consistently sober and rational? Even the psychotic wraith and the colourful bear, there's nothing goofy or slapstick about them, their "eccentricities" are purely an unsettling reminder of their otherworldly natures, not infantile comedy. Gann and Kaelyn were written by Avellone, Safiya, Okku and One of Many were written by Zeits and/or Fenstermaker, I don't have a precise lead.
I was curious so I went to look up the exact timeline. Apparently, between the events of BG1 and MotB there are only six short years. Interesting.

Yeah, so far the only comic relief present is in the form of Safiya's familiar Kaji and that is appreciated. There hasn't even been any zaniness out of the random NPCs.
 
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
1,391
Location
The western road to Erromon.
Just finished Mask of the Betrayer. What a ride! Many thoughts but I think I'll save them until I see what the ending is like if I choose to stay dedicated to Elanee rather than Safiya. I think I got the best good ending regardless, just curious to see if there's a difference. Will post my full thoughts in a week or so once the game settles in my head.
 

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