Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Fallout GFWL finally removed from Fallout 3 on Steam

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,815
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4
By whom? Your friends at rpgcodex.net? If you left this bubble you'd learn that both games are beloved by the masses.

Fallout 76 has to be the one that's widely regarded the lowest, its reception at release was downright venomous.

when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics).
Normal people have never heard of those. For them, the franchise started in 2008 with Fallout 3.

The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible.
This may all be true (I haven't played Fallout 3) but it's a personal opinion, not a general one.

I ask again: who is still playing this game?
No one, really - it's been replaced by Fallout 4 which had a peak of 28k players on Steam today.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,731
Location
New Zealand - Pronouns: HE/HIM
right when requiem for ee is behind the corner


19250.jpg
 

Nutria

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
2,232
Location
한양
Strap Yourselves In
If you just ignore the story and most of the characters and treat it as a bum simulator, it's not bad. You can run around and steal garbage and get in fights with other bums over it. It's not good as a Fallout game, but there's some reason why it was so popular.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
10,579
Location
Frostfell
For them, the franchise started in 2008 with Fallout 3.

Yep. For a lot of Normies, The Elder Scrolls started on 5 - Skyrim, Witcher in 3 and fallout in 3 too... At least most of then heard about new vegas which is way better.
 

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,815
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
For them, the franchise started in 2008 with Fallout 3.

Yep. For a lot of Normies, The Elder Scrolls started on 5 - Skyrim, Witcher in 3 and fallout in 3 too... At least most of then heard about new vegas which is way better.
I'd say TES "started" with Oblivion, even. Skyrim was obviously much more successful in both sales and renown, but people still seem to remember the Adoring Fan and the Imperial Guards stopping you for violating the law. Meme videos about "Oblivion NPC dialogue" get millions(!) of views on Youtube.

In comparison, Witcher 2 seems to be completely forgotten and there's no question that the franchise got big in earnest with Witcher 3 - the first two games would have certainly not been enough to lead to a TV show.

Major gameplay changes between Morrowind and Oblivion is what made the latter's mainstream success possible: Massively increased draw distance to entice exploration of the world, removal of dice rolls to make the game simpler to understand and less frustrating to play, anywhere fast travel to remove time wasted on backtracking, unkillable NPCs to make sure the player can't accidentally lock themselves out of major quests etc.
Every Bethesda game afterwards, from Fallout 3 to Fallout 76, have followed the same design school and have essentially been a continuation of Oblivion with some improvements with every installment.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
10,931
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4
By whom? Your friends at rpgcodex.net? If you left this bubble you'd learn that both games are beloved by the masses.

Fallout 76 has to be the one that's widely regarded the lowest, its reception at release was downright venomous.

when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics).
Normal people have never heard of those. For them, the franchise started in 2008 with Fallout 3.

The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible.
This may all be true (I haven't played Fallout 3) but it's a personal opinion, not a general one.

I ask again: who is still playing this game?
No one, really - it's been replaced by Fallout 4 which had a peak of 28k players on Steam today.

Does not matter what the retarded masses regard highly though, by any objective measure FO 3 is shit, not just for a Fallout game but just as a computer game, doubly though for the cRPG genre. There is barely anything good about it, not even if you treat it as a hiking simulator.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
9,618
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
For them, the franchise started in 2008 with Fallout 3.

Yep. For a lot of Normies, The Elder Scrolls started on 5 - Skyrim, Witcher in 3 and fallout in 3 too... At least most of then heard about new vegas which is way better.
I'd say TES "started" with Oblivion, even. Skyrim was obviously much more successful in both sales and renown, but people still seem to remember the Adoring Fan and the Imperial Guards stopping you for violating the law. Meme videos about "Oblivion NPC dialogue" get millions(!) of views on Youtube.

In comparison, Witcher 2 seems to be completely forgotten and there's no question that the franchise got big in earnest with Witcher 3 - the first two games would have certainly not been enough to lead to a TV show.

Major gameplay changes between Morrowind and Oblivion is what made the latter's mainstream success possible: Massively increased draw distance to entice exploration of the world, removal of dice rolls to make the game simpler to understand and less frustrating to play, anywhere fast travel to remove time wasted on backtracking, unkillable NPCs to make sure the player can't accidentally lock themselves out of major quests etc.
Every Bethesda game afterwards, from Fallout 3 to Fallout 76, have followed the same design school and have essentially been a continuation of Oblivion with some improvements with every installment.

I love it when people ignore the success that Daggerfall was and think TES started with Todd's abominations.

The game was a big hit after its release with 100,000 copies sold within two days of its release. As a result, the retailers were faced with shortages of the game. The good commercial performance later continued and the game achieved lifetime sales of around 2 million. The game was later available for a free download on the Bethesda website.

https://gamerant.com/bethesda-games-best-selling-ranked/

Not bad for a game developed in 1994-1996. It was on par with Doom in sales.
 

Nutria

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
2,232
Location
한양
Strap Yourselves In
Lifetime sales. Come on now. Daggerfall was starting to crawl out of the ghetto of embarrassing autistic nerd gaming toward the mainstream, but it was just at the beginning of that. You still had to hit the power button if your mom came in and saw you in the temple of pixelated titties. It had a demo that made it look like it was a really great game which they put out on those CDs with the game magazines of the time, but I'd bet most codexers' good impressions are more from that than the game itself.

It was on par with Doom in [anything].

:nocountryforshitposters:
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
9,618
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Lifetime sales. Come on now. Daggerfall was starting to crawl out of the ghetto of embarrassing autistic nerd gaming toward the mainstream, but it was just at the beginning of that. You still had to hit the power button if your mom came in and saw you in the temple of pixelated titties. It had a demo that made it look like it was a really great game which they put out on those CDs with the game magazines of the time, but I'd bet most codexers' good impressions are more from that than the game itself.

It was on par with Doom in [anything].

:nocountryforshitposters:

It actually wasn't starting to crawl out. PC games had been going for over 20 years at the time it was released. It was not a niche market.

However, you saying that you had to hit the power button to hide your activities from your mother says more about your dysfunctional family then anything else. ;)

As for the Doom comment it was referring to sales. Doom sold over 3.5 million copies of the full version and gave away 1.15 million copies of the shareware version between 1993-1999. Thus, my statement about 2 million in lifetime sales for Daggerfall is accurate. Daggerfall sold out in two days just like Doom did.

The original Doom sold 3.5 million physical copies[110] and 1.15 million shareware copies[111] from its 1993 release up through 1999.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(franchise)#Sales
 
Last edited:

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
17,317
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland
By whom? Your friends at rpgcodex.net? If you left this bubble you'd learn that both games are beloved by the masses.
But what about the NMA bubble?
 

Nutria

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
2,232
Location
한양
Strap Yourselves In
However, you saying that you had to hit the power button to hide your activities from your mother says more about your dysfunctional family then anything else.

I only ever had the demo when I was a kid which I'm pretty sure censored that. But if you actually owned the game and your mom caught you looking at a pixel that's supposed to be a nipple in 320x240x256 that would be so much more embarrassing than getting caught jerking off to the bra ads in a mail order catalog.

As for the Doom comment it was referring to sales.

Yeah, I was half-joking there. But obviously the way that Doom was sold (and pirated) means it was played by many times more people than Daggerfall ever was. We went through a bunch of fads in the 1990s like FMV games, Doom clones, and the year of 100 RTSs. I believe Morrowind is where RPG mechanics and 3D graphics started coming together into something palatable to a larger audience.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
10,112
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Instead of removing GFWL from Fallout 3 they should have removed Bethesda from Fallout 3.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
9,618
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
However, you saying that you had to hit the power button to hide your activities from your mother says more about your dysfunctional family then anything else.

I only ever had the demo when I was a kid which I'm pretty sure censored that. But if you actually owned the game and your mom caught you looking at a pixel that's supposed to be a nipple in 320x240x256 that would be so much more embarrassing than getting caught jerking off to the bra ads in a mail order catalog.

As for the Doom comment it was referring to sales.

Yeah, I was half-joking there. But obviously the way that Doom was sold (and pirated) means it was played by many times more people than Daggerfall ever was. We went through a bunch of fads in the 1990s like FMV games, Doom clones, and the year of 100 RTSs. I believe Morrowind is where RPG mechanics and 3D graphics started coming together into something palatable to a larger audience.

My mother used to sell lingerie, so there was catalogs. I was an adult when Doom and Daggerfall came out, so my parents really didn't care. :lol:

You're right about the jank being released in the 1990s. You have to admit that it was at least creative jank. :lol: Daggerfall was the first true 3d rpg for TES games. Yeah it used sprites for characters and monsters, but the world itself and buildings were all 3d. Ultima Underworld is considered to be the first 3d RPG.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Ultima Underworld is considered to be the first 3d RPG.
Dark Heart of Uukrul, Eye of the Beholder, Midwinter, The Eidolon and likely others would like to talk.

Mainly the first and second, as they had full 3d dungeons with consistent pitfalls, 3d traps, puzzles using 3d space and the like, just without non-planar movement years before UU did the same thing with non-planar movement.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
9,618
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Ultima Underworld is considered to be the first 3d RPG.
Dark Heart of Uukrul, Eye of the Beholder, Midwinter, The Eidolon and likely others would like to talk.

Mainly the first and second, as they had full 3d dungeons with consistent pitfalls, 3d traps, puzzles using 3d space and the like, just without non-planar movement years before UU did the same thing with non-planar movement.

I never played any of them, so I wouldn't know. I cited another source for what was considered to be the first. Thank you for the correction.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Ultima Underworld is considered to be the first 3d RPG.
Dark Heart of Uukrul, Eye of the Beholder, Midwinter, The Eidolon and likely others would like to talk.

Mainly the first and second, as they had full 3d dungeons with consistent pitfalls, 3d traps, puzzles using 3d space and the like, just without non-planar movement years before UU did the same thing with non-planar movement.

I never played any of them, so I wouldn't know. I cited another source for what was considered to be the first. Thank you for the correction.
3d is a very loose definition that early on.

As well, RPG even that early on, has a very loose definition as well.

It may be by their arbitrary standards UU is the first 3D game that is an RPG.

But at the same time, what are their standards, and are there others that would qualify.

I tend to classify 3d not by polygonal structures, but by how the game uses its own space in 3 dimensions.

Doom isn't 3D because it doesn't leverage much on the vertical plane except as a separation point from discrete levels of a map.

Uukrul in spite of being less 3D technically than Doom, is more 3D in my mind than it because the world is in itself very well interconnected vertically.

Meanwhile, UU is very much 3D both in world and technical specifications, because the gameworld uses it's 3D elements quite well. But it's also only debatably an RPG, and falls more along the lines of what would be called a proto-Immersive Sim today.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
381
Okay multiposting is bad but I'm going to do it anyway, this is important.

FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4, when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics). The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible. I ask again: who is still playing this game?
I'd play Fallout 3 over NuVegas.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
4,856
Okay multiposting is bad but I'm going to do it anyway, this is important.

FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4, when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics). The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible. I ask again: who is still playing this game?
If I had to pick one game that made me genuinely angry/butthurt, it would be F3. That said, even on codex this game has its defenders, although it's probably not as popular among codexers as Skyrim is.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
25,892
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Okay multiposting is bad but I'm going to do it anyway, this is important.

FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4, when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics). The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible. I ask again: who is still playing this game?
If I had to pick one game that made me genuinely angry/butthurt, it would be F3. That said, even on codex this game has its defenders, although it's probably not as popular among codexers as Skyrim is.
Even Homm 4 likely fares better.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
10,931
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Okay multiposting is bad but I'm going to do it anyway, this is important.

FO3 is widely regarded as the worst Fallout game, perhaps tied with FO4, when viewed against the backdrop of all the Fallouts (including 1,2, and Tactics). The story is terrible, the story choices are terrible, the voice acting is terrible, VATS is terrible, melee combat is terrible, the role-playing opportunities are terrible. It is all terrible. I ask again: who is still playing this game?
If I had to pick one game that made me genuinely angry/butthurt, it would be F3. That said, even on codex this game has its defenders, although it's probably not as popular among codexers as Skyrim is.
Even Homm 4 likely fares better.

I liked HOMM 4 despite the weak AI. Loved the music and the different take on the generals.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom