Review GiN: KOTOR 2 combat is cleverly designed TB

[bgillisp]

That's why I said to turn off the pauses in BG. Make sure to read the entire message first. And, I did say it was not a fool proof system.

Setting BG with pauses at end of each round goes back to a question asked earlier this topic, of which it was concluded that was phase-based. See top of page 2 if you wish to check, message is close to the top there.

And, if you say it is closer to TB than RT, which is it really? I, and many others here consider BG RT with pause, and not a TB game. Your suggested system turns BG into a phase-based system, in my opinion. Feel free to disagree though.

 

[Volourn]

I agree with that, and I'd wager that phased based combat is closer to tb than rt. Afterall, phase base combat is often done in pnp games including D&D.

 

[bgillisp]

True. Wasn't Wizardry phase-based? Been a while since I played it, but seem to recall it was. Enter all my commands, and then hit next turn and watch the action.

So, I would agree that phase-based is closer to TB than RT. But, I would not call them quite the same thing.

While we are on this topic, which one does everyone prefer? TB or phase-based?

 

[Volourn]

"So, I would agree that phase-based is closer to TB than RT. But, I would not call them quite the same thing."

Agreed. If they were the same there'd be no need to differeniate the two.


"While we are on this topic, which one does everyone prefer? TB or phase-based?"

Hmm.. That's real tough. I tend to use phase based in pnp. I don't like givng players virtually unlimited time inbetween deciding their next move. I tend to give them a reaosnable amopunt and then tell them get thier asses together. I also ask them what they are gonna do at the start of the round.

 

[bgillisp]

Glad you see the difference exists. I seem to recall people confusing phase based and TB a long time ago, just lke people confuse RT and TB now.

Which do you (or anyone) prefer for a computer game? I found phase-based added a randomness factor to when your action occured. You never knew when that key attack or spell would occur.

Of course, it sucked when you cast heal after your fighter just died. Or, cast your high level fireball at empty space as all the monsters are dead.

I would say I prefer TB myself in the end though, as I like better control over the players and actions. Most times the action you pick will occur then, not at some random time in the combat round. There are exceptions (Gold Box games where you cast Fireball anyone?).

 

[Volourn]

To be honest, I like both, as long as the combat takes everything into account.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I like control, TB gives a lot of control. I'm also fine with real time, though I find it a lot less strategic. I can't stand whatever this real time w/ pause thing is that Bioware relies on. IT just gives me no sense of control, like I'm watching a screen saver.

 

[Claw]

RT with pause is like TB minus the sense of control you expect from TB games, at least that's my impression from Baldur's Gate.


Edit: Oh, time has passed.

 

[Volourn]

You both are stupid. RT w/pause gives the player as much control as tb does but without retardedness.

 

[bgillisp]

Not quite. I find it harder to target spells and such in RT with pause. Setting up that fireball so it hits the monsters and not you is harder in this system, as both are moving at the time.

Though, you would have to admit RT w/pause is more realistic. After all, who would not move when they see a big ball of fire coming at them. I don't think the exchange is like: Oh, goody. Another fireball. Get out the marshmellows!

It is a matter of realism vs fun here. And, I think TB is more fun in the end. But, that is just me.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Or at least halfway realistic, that is, the whole simultaneous actions dealio is mimicking part of reality, not the whole of it.

 

[bgillisp]

True. While we are on this subject, couldn't we do about the same thing with TB and interrupts? In other words, you see a Fireball spell coming your way, get an interrupt to decide your action. Though, that might get too confusing and complicated if not implemented well (who goes first in a huge group if all see it?). And, I can just pciture 25 interrupts being processed when you cast it at a huge group of goblins that are clustered together. Can really slow combat down if done poorly.

 

[Killzig]

You both are stupid. RT w/pause gives the player as much control as tb does but without retardedness.

If the enemy AI actually had as much care put into it as something like Half-Life then yeah, I'd agree with you. But, to use KOTOR as an example, the enemies who are ranged just stand where they are and shoot you, take an attack, shoot again. All from a stationary location. The melee enemies run up to you and hack back and forth til one falls. It's very boring and very repetitive yet this is what 90% of the gameplay centers around.

 

[Volourn]

Don't have to convince me that KOTOR series' combat is sucky. I totally agree with that. Try again, please.