Gloomwood - Thief-ish stealth horror game from New Blood Interactive - now available on Early Access

[Lithium Flower]

Your mom does it for the marketing purposes aha

Anyway, took me 3.9 hours according to steam but I beatenered the demo and I believe found every secret.

Not sure why people are saying that it's nothing like Thief. It's not exactly Thief, but it is far from being a casualized power fantasy rape simulator like Dishonored. I think it can be most accurately described as having something like 60% Thief DNA and 40% System Shock 2 DNA. At least on the Full Moon difficulty (highest available in the first EA release,) the power differential between the PC and the enemies seems pretty comparable to Thief - direct combat, unless you have the resources and proper set-up, is punished with swift lethality - but instead of incentivizing ghosting, the game does drip-feed resources such as weapons, ammo, explosive barrels, etc that allow you to eliminate every threat on the level provided you explore thoroughly and exercise an decent level of tactical and situational awareness.

The real time grid inventory and only being able to save at phonographs are major tip-offs that SS2 inspired the game on a foundational level.

1st level is really good IMO, gave me the same vibe as playing Thief for the first time. You start in what appears to be a relatively linear area tutorial area but if you poke around it's actually a multi-level compound with many nooks, crannies, and hidden passages, and teeming with enemies (which, unlike in SS2, do not respawn). Like Thief, there are documents to find that foreshadow dank lore and provide hints about the environment, as well as maps of the area to discover. Unlike in Thief, the map does not show your current position, so you have to use that friend Brian of ours who is quite helpful when we are not too busy drinking and masturbating our life away.

Now, the AI is kind of retarded (slow response time, like maybe double that of vanilla Deus Ex but I could be completely off just vibing here man you get me) but dynamic enough in their investigation/chase behavior to make no area feel entirely safe until I cleared out the entire level. For instance, after exploring a good portion of the starting building I used an explosive barrel to kill a small group of enemies. This attracted three motherfuckers that I had not found/killed prior, forcing me to escape into areas that I had already deemed "cleared" - and I actually stumbled into one secret passage in the process of flight. And even more chaos transpired due to the fact that I did not bother to hide bodies in some of the aforementioned areas - as a result, the guards I ran away from deviated from their normal patrol routes and started poking around the scenes of carnage I had caused perhaps an hour prior. All of that rendered both my initial and subsequent sorties tense like my cock during its hourly sounding sessions.

So the potential for dynamic encounters like that is incredible. Really forced me to explore each environment carefully and try to become intimately familiar with potential hiding spots, escape routes, and chokepoints - since I never knew whether an area was truly safe until I killed everyone in the level. And this is reinforced through the fact that you can only save at phonographs - and that you can only load back to the last save game you made. The aforementioned big compound you start in has just 1 phonograph but you unlock shortcuts to it from other parts of the level like it's motherfucking Dark Souls, motherfucker. (Yeah, I said it, bitch - Gloomwood is the Dark Souls of the immersive sim genre. It's like Bloodborne meets Citizen Kane except neither of those things really. It is basically like Skyrim, if Skyrim was made by New Blood, and actually good (barring lack for support for rape mods.)) Anyway, retreating back to the phonograph rooms to save my progress and stash extra items has been an incredibly cozy experience or whatever

Unfortunately, other 2 levels have not been as complex or enjoyable as the 1st. Both were a much more linear affair with few secrets to find compared to the 1st level. The second level actually makes for quite a nice change of pace, but the 3rd doesn't feel like it really has much of an identity and feels like a worse version of the previous 2 in a few ways (although it could be due to the fact that it is the most unfinished, with one major enemy encounter being under development - so you more or less get 2.75 levels, with the first probably having more gameplay in it than the rest combined)

Besides the phonograph checkpoints, another thing that makes me think of this as as a Thief Shock Souls chimera is the fact that there is backtracking is possible between all levels, sometimes with unexpected shortcuts. Level 1 has at least 2 secrets that will require backtracking from future levels in order to complete, and there is a shortcut by which you can walk your ass from level 3 and back into 1. It's not seamless like in Souls, but loading screens notwithstanding I experienced quite a good feeling of direction, presence, and IMMERSHIN in the GA(Y)MESPACE. Although I hope that the older levels will become repopulated with new enemy placements, perhaps after certain points in the story (sort of like the city hubs levels would refresh in Thief 3 between missions) because otherwise doing nothing backtracking for 10 minutes across 2 different maps for a single secret feels like a bit of a drag.

There are a few annoyances I have with the first early access release. Few mechanics are missing but since there is no information indicating this, you will still be clogging up your inventory space with useless shit:
-Sanity damage does not appear to be present ergo food items that seem to restore it are useless and a waste of space
-Same for loot items you are meant to be able to sell later on like in Thiaf
-Same for the research mechanic ala Shock2, which is hilarious because you require the severed heads of enemies for that and those take up a huge amount of inventory space. Although this does foreshadow a great potential for roleplaying as Jeffrey Dahmer (perhaps I spoke too soon re: lack of rape mod support aha)

There is also one fringe part of Level 1 that looks ridiculously unfinished and honestly I am surprised that it made it into the first EA release given how polished the rest of the build largely is. Finally, a bit disappointed that the assets and monsters that were present in other pre-release footage did not make their way into the first release. They foreshadow a monster encounter in Level 3 but when you get to the place you are met with literal red tape telling you to fuck off and play the rest of the level because this part ain't done yet chief. Could have put a bunch of those wendigo-looking motherfuckers from all the other pre-release footage in there just as a WIP hard encounter thing but damn, go off, sis. Anyway it was a fun way to spends spend 4 hours in the middle of the fucking night

So the TL;DR is that the potential seems to be amazing but it all depends on whether or not they are able to keep up with producing more intricate levels. Levels 2 and 3 make sense as "bridges" between hub areas of 1 and, presumably, 4 (the Market Square, presumably.) But if New Blood decided to front load all of their game design then obviously that's sort of like uh not good fam

 

[Lithium Flower]

Nice, pushed to the new page so the first line doesn't set the tone as a spontaneous-yet-inexplicable reply to Wunderbar as I FUCKING INTENDED IT TO BE. whatever, just pretend I wrote this for my main man O. Rex or something. I love you. Whoever you are.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Also playing it now. Going way slower though and wow, this game has shortcuts, damn. The atmosphere is on point though. Great ambience, so Thief like.

Edit 1: yeah, this ain't no Thief let me tell you. Haven't finished it yet but it is quite polished, some level transitions here and there, shortcuts galore holy shit, just like in Dark Souls, can pickpocket enemies and get their keys and if you do they can't lock doors behind them anymore, dogs don't seem to be able to detect you by smell only by sight and sound, crate stacking is back in full glory as it allows you reach various stuff, climbing and mantling work well, resources are pretty scarce (playing on full moon, the second to last difficulty option as the first and last are not available), not killed anyone so far just ghosting around, distractions seem pretty necessary from time to time, inventory management is ok, can shoot guns to create distractions, enemies can break down doors but so can you.
Edit 2: Low FPS in more open areas, stuttering in some places, but goes away soon. Overall pretty stable. No crashes whatsoever. Running on 770 4 GB. BTW, "Axe goes in, blood comes out!". Or so I've been told by the crazy guy chopping stuff. Nice maps so far, small industrial area, caves, coastline huts and some dilapidated buildings and haven't reached the main city yet.
Edit 3: Finished it. Ghosted it. Good stealth game, definitely not Thief nor an immersive sim. Inspiration taken from Thief, DX, Dark Souls. Hype died a little bit.
That ring seems to show only 4 states of visibility but sometimes it feels like there's only 2. They switch abruptly from one to another. They also don't seem to always properly align with the lit and dark areas.
Whatever, I'll still play it but, yeah, hype went down a bit.

 

[markec]

https://steamcommunity.com/id/AwesomeFace880/recommended/1150760

Cruelty Squad's careful use of religious symbolism illustrates a rotten world enslaved by immortality; one which finds salvation through the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Before the nature of a Christ figure can be discussed it must first be established that religious themes exist in Cruelty Squad; this is readily apparent within the game, narratively and even mechanically. Narratively, Cruelty Squad is almost devoid of direct references to God, instead featuring numerous allusions to Satanism which are present throughout the game; a colorful church in Paradise proudly displays a pentagram on its front; the corporation the protagonist works for is headed by a cabal of demons; though somewhat contrived, some have speculated that the sun of Cruelty Squad's world is Lucifer himself. References to the Christian heresy of Gnosticism are also present as seen in the first boss of Archon Grid, who is named after the Gnostic deity Abraxas and is itself found in a level named after Gnostic Archons, who are beings made for the purpose of keeping the soul trapped in its body. These examples are relatively meaningless on their own until one recognizes how they specifically focus on decadent religion or corrupted aspects of a religion; Satanism as the rejection of and opposition of God, and Gnosticism as a heresy of Christianity, important because of its depiction of a deity imagined by men who believed that the existence of evil was a symptom of a fundamentally flawed universe rather than something permitted by God for the sake of free will. Cruelty Squad finds one of its greatest connections to God through its mechanics, where the game immediately distinguishes between mindless and purposeful suffering by its descending difficulty levels; mere death severs one's Divine Link and reduces difficulty at the cost of access to secret areas, but if one deliberately challenges himself and completes a level on Punishment mode, he restores his link as a sort of penance. Cruelty Squad's religious symbolism illustrates a tenuous and corrupted perception of faith where mindless suffering brings man increasingly further from God.

The religious symbolism present in Cruelty Squad helps give greater context to its story, where immortality has consequently rendered the world spiritually dead. Ushering in a new era of mankind through the advent of resurrection technology, humanity has been reduced to a species which clings to material gains and nonsensical fringe beliefs for meaning, where the concept of religion has been twisted into belief of financial deities whose creation myths based on transaction and net worth are used to justify materialistic lifestyles, horrifying modifications to the human body, and acceptance of a numerical, worthless value to human life. References to Satanism throughout the game as well as the demonic nature of its corporate heads suggest that this cataclysmic event was not a tragic accident, but rather a direct act by Satan to assume control over mankind through immortality. In Christian theology it is generally held that at the Last Judgment the bodies of the dead will be reunited with their souls in the afterlife; By denying man true death, Satan mocks Christ's resurrection through imperfect imitation of the act and puts distance between man and God through the former's loss of divine link upon physical destruction. Through this action the devil is able to transform the Earth into a second limbo, where a biologically functional yet spiritually bankrupt mankind is doomed to linger, disconnected from God by mindless suffering and incapable of ascension. Imposing immortality upon the world, Satan spits in the face of Christ's sacrifice and drives humanity into ignorance.

A world desperately in need of salvation finds its savior in the protagonist, who is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Hailing from a mediocre background as a fisherman from an island town, similar to Christ's own background as a carpenter from Nazareth, the protagonist is said to have abandoned his dreams in his hometown prior to his current occupation as an assassin. The protagonist is seemingly the only individual in Cruelty Squad's world capable of sustaining a connection to God; given that this link can be restored and severed at will, it is reasonable to assume that the protagonist possesses the same dual divine and human natures as Jesus Christ. The standard levels of Cruelty Squad don't seem to lend any credence to this notion, but are rendered irrelevant by the fact that none of the targets can be truly killed, and as such their events hold no real significance. Where the protagonist's true role as the second coming of Jesus Christ comes to light is in the concluding levels, specifically Archon Grid, Cruelty Squad HQ, and Trauma Loop. These concluding levels follow along a set path that mirrors the events leading up to Christ's crucifixion, victory over death, and ascension into Heaven. In Archon Grid the protagonist is given the means to restore his divine link at any time and defeats Abraxas, but finds himself trapped in ignorance; similar to Christ's pleas with God at Gethsemane that He might be spared the pains of His Crucifixion, the protagonist attempts to settle for material happiness but can find no alternative for the path set before him. Making a conscious decision to embrace his fate, the protagonist, through abandoning hope and attaining true death by means of soul emulation, parallels Christ's crucifixion and descent into hell by traversing the death barrier located in Cruelty Squad HQ, where he is made to confront and defeat LIFE's champion, who, by his resemblance to the protagonist, can be reasonably identified as the Antichrist. Following this battle is a confrontation with LIFE itself who recognizes the protagonist as Christ, the "sacrificial hero", but, similar to His encounter with Satan in the desert, tries to convince him to abandon his mission in favor of material pursuit. Unshaken, just as He was in the desert, the protagonist rejects Satan's pleas; transfigured with the garb of LIFE's champion, the protagonist is made into a harbinger of spiritual life. With no obstacles in the way of man's salvation, the protagonist locates the Cradle of LIFE in Trauma Loop and leads the bodies of the spiritually dead toward their souls contained within the monolithic force of DEATH, reuniting mankind with their lost souls and restoring their connection with God. Conquering spiritual death just as Christ did physical death, the protagonist shatters Satan's illusory control over mankind and leads them back to God, initiating a GOLDEN AGE of renewed faith.

Cruelty Squad, despite its cynical and often despressive surface, affirms through its story the ultimate victory of God over evil and, in many ways, reflects the mindset of an author who resents the dwindling belief of God in his own homeland; though it remains to be seen whether or not the population of Finland will return to their faith, Ville Kallio's post-modern message of salvation in darkness is one which cannot be ignored.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I played this for an hour or so and the game feels like having an identity crisis. It's some Dishonored/Thief3 mish-mash, but nothing feels as polished or salient as its inspirations. Thief was a simple game that pushed above its weight, which gave it its undying status, but this feels like it underwent a deliberate reductionist treatment that leaves it with nothing special left.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I played this for an hour or so and the game feels like having an identity crisis. It's some Dishonored/Thief3 mish-mash, but nothing feels as polished or salient as its inspirations. Thief was a simple game that pushed above its weight, which gave it its undying status, but this feels like it underwent a deliberate reductionist treatment that leaves it with nothing special left.

I agree, this isn't the next Thief but it is a pretty good stealth game regardless. I like the diegetic elements it has (the ring, the suitcase). It also seems to have a dedicated path to take, if you're ghosting, when you're in an area and there are a bunch of enemies around. The low budget is palpable. Areas are also not large, but there is a lot of verticality and interconnected areas with a bunch of shortcuts. Dark Souls influence is pretty clear.

 

[Hammerite]

Okay so the million-dollar question is, why would one buy this game when there's hundreds/thousands of fan levels for Thief you can play for free?

 

[notpl]

Okay so the million-dollar question is, why would one buy this game when there's hundreds/thousands of fan levels for Thief you can play for free?

Because out of those thousands of fan levels, maybe a dozen are worth playing and it's impossible to sift through them.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Okay so the million-dollar question is, why would one buy this game when there's hundreds/thousands of fan levels for Thief you can play for free?

For the simple reason this game isn't Thief, nor its trying to be

 

[CootKeeper]

Okay so the million-dollar question is, why would one buy this game when there's hundreds/thousands of fan levels for Thief you can play for free?

Because out of those thousands of fan levels, maybe a dozen are worth playing and it's impossible to sift through them.

maybe we need a kodex ranking of thief 1/2 fan levels, just like for RPGs

 

[Lithium Flower]

I don't understand why it is hard to grasp how something can be inspired by X without sharing the same design goals - and therefore being a distinct experience.

Thief manifests itself in Gloomwood when it comes to the player exploring a tense environment, initially against the odds, where open conflict is discouraged, stealth and exploration provide massive gameplay advantages, enemy behavior leads to dynamically developing cat-and-mouse situations, levels are covered include gradients of shadow and hazards, realistic sound propagation is simulated and important and so on.

Then there are bits of System Shock 2 like a real time grid inventory, the saving system encouraging you to roll with the punches, and general resource scarcity.

But the end gameplay state encouraged by Gloomwood is different from that of either Thief or System Shock 2. Thief's peak gameplay is ghosting around without killing anyone. SS2 is about optimizing your resources and character build on a macro level - the micro is a ceaseless pulse of respawning enemies that drives you forward.

In Gloomwood, on the other hand, you are incentivized to play in as completionistic way as possible, which includes killing every enemy on the map since there is no consequence to doing so beyond resources expended, they do not respawn, and that is the only way to completely render a level safe for optimal exploration and secret gathering. One could say that Gloomwood shares the same goal as Doom: kill all the dudes, find all the secret. Except you are not playing it like Doom, you are playing it like an imsim(TM) (R), in a dynamic environment and with resource management and so on.

So if that sounds good, then there is obvious value in exploring this game for you. If that does not sound like a tempting proposition, then your time is probably better spent elsewhere. I just feel like people are missing out if their first response to seeing a game with multiple influences is to compare them to a single such influence and reductively ask "what's the point of playing z=[x+y] when x already exists lmao?" Perhaps you are not introspective enough about why you enjoy the games you do, and not adventurous enough to investigate what makes those experiences different from others. Unlike me. I am brilliant and thoughtful - and above all, more measured and modest than anyone else in this goddamn world.

 

[SharkClub]

So I bought the game, I knew I was going to end up buying it anyway so I may as well get it over with and share some thoughts about it. Beat the demo before when it came out and the early access is only a bit longer than the demo was (though the levels are completely different).

The game is fine. It's fun enough, kinda easy even on the harder difficulty that was available (though the hardest difficulty isn't in the EA release, even though that stuff was all in the original demo). It is definitely not "Thief with guns", it's more like a bunch of different stealth, survival horror and immersive sims got thrown into a blender (one of which is indeed Thief), and the result is fine, good even. The movement speed is quite slow for how large some of the environments are, but because it's a shooty stealth game I have a feeling if you upped the movement speed a significant amount it would destroy any and all challenge. Garrett in Thief 1 & 2 is extremely agile in comparison to the player character in Gloomwood. The sound design for the weapons and fiddling around with stuff in your inventory is pleasing.

Mostly I'm just surprised at the lack of content available, this game has been in development for years and it looks like it's going to continue being in development for years before it is complete. There's various areas which are just inaccessible even before you reach the end of the early access demo and that just rubs me the wrong way. I spent a good deal of time searching for the watchtower key in the first level before finally just looking it up and finding out that the watchtower key isn't in the game and the watchtower is unfinished, despite various bits of information in the level telling me there's a dude trapped up there starving to death or something, which makes you want to go check it out because it seems like that is what the game is telling you to do. The early access levels are... less finished than the previously released demo was.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

The devs appeared to have made a mistake by saying that this game was "inspired by Thief". Honestly, saying that your game was "inspired" by any other game is always bad, unless it's pretty much a clone like Nox Archaist. I'm not big on Dishonored, but at least it's managed to carve out a legacy of its own, rather than always living in Thief's shadow - even if that's partly because it was mostly played by normies who have never heard of Thief. For fuck's sake, the store page has three reviews, two of which are comparing this game directly to Thief.

“Feels exactly like what you'd want from a Thief sequel.”
The Gamer

“Really does ring the old-school Thief bell.”
PC Gamer

That being said, I guess "game stitched together with elements from two good games (Thief and Resident Evil)" isn't a terrible pitch for an indie game. It's not like every game's gonna be the height of creativity or anything. I like those two games so I guess I'll buy this. Even if it's mostly to be contrary to that tranime reaction-image posting 4chan faggot that got posted last page.

 

[Lithium Flower]

So I bought the game, I knew I was going to end up buying it anyway so I may as well get it over with and share some thoughts about it. Beat the demo before when it came out and the early access is only a bit longer than the demo was (though the levels are completely different).

The game is fine. It's fun enough, kinda easy even on the harder difficulty that was available (though the hardest difficulty isn't in the EA release, even though that stuff was all in the original demo). It is definitely not "Thief with guns", it's more like a bunch of different stealth, survival horror and immersive sims got thrown into a blender (one of which is indeed Thief), and the result is fine, good even. The movement speed is quite slow for how large some of the environments are, but because it's a shooty stealth game I have a feeling if you upped the movement speed a significant amount it would destroy any and all challenge. Garrett in Thief 1 & 2 is extremely agile in comparison to the player character in Gloomwood. The sound design for the weapons and fiddling around with stuff in your inventory is pleasing.

Mostly I'm just surprised at the lack of content available, this game has been in development for years and it looks like it's going to continue being in development for years before it is complete. There's various areas which are just inaccessible even before you reach the end of the early access demo and that just rubs me the wrong way. I spent a good deal of time searching for the watchtower key in the first level before finally just looking it up and finding out that the watchtower key isn't in the game and the watchtower is unfinished, despite various bits of information in the level telling me there's a dude trapped up there starving to death or something, which makes you want to go check it out because it seems like that is what the game is telling you to do. The early access levels are... less finished than the previously released demo was.

I share your impressions on the difficulty (I did die a good half-dozen times, but it's really the AI that I wish was more perceptive and responsive - hopefully Blood Moon will help in that regard) and the movement speed dilemma. Thief had interesting movement acceleration courtesy of unreal engine which led to some silly shit like Quake-style bunnyhopping but did allow for a swift traversal of maps. Your base movement speed, even with a holstered weapon, is much slower in Gloomwood which is an issue considering backtracking to phonographs - and yet, like you say, increasing it significantly would destroy the challenge. Something like a movement speed bonus in cleared areas or a fast travel network that requires an expenditure of resources would be cool. A harpoon gun that shoots Thief-style rope projectiles so maybe that will help as well.

That being said your vertical mobility in this game is quite comparable to Garret's thanks to the nearly identical mantle - in fact, it's quite easy to get into the watchtower.

Spoiler

You stack crates all the way up to the windows but the easiest way is just to use 1 barrel and 1 crate up against the door at the bottom of the tower and crouch-jump through the gap in the steel bars. It is unfinished but at least there are some supplies there, a pistol, 4 cans of now-useless food, but most importantly a health syringe. Just be careful because you will need both the crate holding the syringe and the sack from the tower to stack on the other side of the door, or else you will get locked in.

The fishery generator crank, on the other hand, is one secret that is foreshadowed but completely unimplemented, presumably requires the Market Square location which supposedly is next in line to be released. Don't bother searching for it.

Regarding the amount of content currently present, this may be cope but I am hoping that the EA build is merely that which has been most polished/playtested and hopefully significantly less than the totality of the game so far developed. That is my assumption based on the fact that the old demo has a tilesets, level design, and enemies not present in the EA version. New Blood games usually have quite a slow development cycle but the results have been consistently decent - but of course it's a different dev so who knows maybe this one's a lemon. I sure hope not. I've really enjoyed the EA releases for this and Fallen Aces, probably more so than anything else NB put out, barring Ultrakill which is too different of a game to really compare. Never played this game's original demo but perhaps I should.

 

[SharkClub]

I share your impressions on the difficulty (I did die a good half-dozen times, but it's really the AI that I wish was more perceptive and responsive - hopefully Blood Moon will help in that regard) and the movement speed dilemma. Thief had interesting movement acceleration courtesy of unreal engine which led to some silly shit like Quake-style bunnyhopping but did allow for a swift traversal of maps. Your base movement speed, even with a holstered weapon, is much slower in Gloomwood which is an issue considering backtracking to phonographs - and yet, like you say, increasing it significantly would destroy the challenge. Something like a movement speed bonus in cleared areas or a fast travel network that requires an expenditure of resources would be cool. A harpoon gun that shoots Thief-style rope projectiles so maybe that will help as well.

Thief 1 & 2 are on Looking Glass Studios' Dark Engine, actually, not Unreal. You may be getting that confused with Deus Ex. Thief 1 has absolutely delicious movement and momentum to it that even Thief 2 sort of butchered by removing the bunnyhopping. The third map in Gloomwood could probably be traversed by Thief 1 Garrett in like half of the time it takes the Gloomwood player character.

And yeah, I did manage to get into the watchtower in the end, but I didn't do it by climbing through the hole above the door. I went and climbed the mountains around the side of the map and climbed up the tree, chucked a bottle at the window and jumped inside from the tree. You can also get out without taking damage by falling out of a window on to one of the higher parts of the roof below. The missing crank was another thing that is just absent but hinted at heavily, as you said, I forgot to mention that.

Oh, I also did this at the end of the third level because I was bored and was hoping for secrets.

Screenshots

Because autism I guess, I do random shit like this in Thief OMs and FMs a lot. Gloomwood barrel/crate stacking is a little bit harder than in Thief because the physics are a bit more loose and less rigid in Gloomwood.

 

[Lithium Flower]

You are completely right about me mixing up Dark Engine with DX's UE.

Lol, disappointment about unfinished content aside, the differing anecdotes and people finding at least 3 ways to get into this tiny locked tower that the developers did not even intend to be accessible sort of illustrate the crossroads this game is at right now. Clearly all the potential for a complex and dynamic experience is there. Will development flesh out and fulfill the potential to create a game that rewards the sort of old school autistic mindset we are all trapped in - or will the project remain with all that promise and so little substance??/?

 

[Baron Dupek]

devs busy wanking over tiny numbers

Zero clue what they were working on for five years

memes

 

[destinae vomitus]

But the end gameplay state encouraged by Gloomwood is different from that of either Thief or System Shock 2. Thief's peak gameplay is ghosting around without killing anyone.
In Gloomwood, on the other hand, you are incentivized to play in as completionistic way as possible, which includes killing every enemy on the map since there is no consequence to doing so beyond resources expended, they do not respawn, and that is the only way to completely render a level safe for optimal exploration and secret gathering. One could say that Gloomwood shares the same goal as Doom: kill all the dudes, find all the secret.

Thief's peak gameplay is briskly sneaking around while putting out lights and eliminating or distracting anyone who's meaning to be a problem so that you can progress expediently. And whenever you fumble up, instead of quickloading like some spineless taffer you treat the inevitable conga-line of guards to a flash bomb or gas mine, or better yet you pull out your sword and put em fencing mechanics to use, it's in the game for a reason and offers usability even on expert. "Ghosting" is self-imposed challenge malarkey. Playing like that effectively eliminates many aspects of the game and not to mention makes the gameplay far less proactive, it's less so peak gameplay and more so a way of showing off your mastery/autism. Besides, I don't think Garrett is the type to twiddle his thumbs and patiently wait for every unaware dunce to let him slip by, but what do I know, maybe he carries an arsenal and murders dudes in the intro cutscenes just as a joke.

That is to say, it's not really much different from how you're proposing Gloomwood is meaning to be played if you ask me. At a fundamental level, in both you try and scour your way through the level while eliminating/bypassing obstacles by way of stealth and/or resource expenditure so that you can progress (and engage in kleptomania) in peace. The thing is though that Gloomwood (as is) doesn't have the objective variety of Thief, nor enemy AI on par or a difficulty equivalent to expert that'd impose some sort of restrictions, and outside of the fishery the level design doesn't have much breadth or complexity. As a result going about shanking or capping everyone is comparatively trivial and there's no disincentives holding you back from doing it. Since backtracking is meaning to be an element to some extent there's gonna be all the more reason to not trouble yourself with enemies left walking around. They need to start throwing some sort of curveballs later on or it's gonna get old.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Ghosting is LARPing in Thief. If the Gloomwood dev wants to create some more consequences for brainlessly whacking everyone like it's Splinter Cell Conviction, then he needs to amp up that "corpse eater" enemy I've heard mentioned before.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I think I have been conflating non-lethal runs (often enforced on Expert) with ghosting which I understand as no knockouts, though pretty sure T2 had some (most?) levels that imposed a cap on the amount of people you can KNOCK UP I mean out aha

But the end gameplay state encouraged by Gloomwood is different from that of either Thief or System Shock 2. Thief's peak gameplay is ghosting around without killing anyone.
In Gloomwood, on the other hand, you are incentivized to play in as completionistic way as possible, which includes killing every enemy on the map since there is no consequence to doing so beyond resources expended, they do not respawn, and that is the only way to completely render a level safe for optimal exploration and secret gathering. One could say that Gloomwood shares the same goal as Doom: kill all the dudes, find all the secret.

Thief's peak gameplay is briskly sneaking around while putting out lights and eliminating or distracting anyone who's meaning to be a problem so that you can progress expediently. And whenever you fumble up, instead of quickloading like some spineless taffer you treat the inevitable conga-line of guards to a flash bomb or gas mine, or better yet you pull out your sword and put em fencing mechanics to use, it's in the game for a reason and offers usability even on expert. "Ghosting" is self-imposed challenge malarkey. Playing like that effectively eliminates many aspects of the game and not to mention makes the gameplay far less proactive, it's less so peak gameplay and more so a way of showing off your mastery/autism. Besides, I don't think Garrett is the type to twiddle his thumbs and patiently wait for every unaware dunce to let him slip by, but what do I know, maybe he carries an arsenal and murders dudes in the intro cutscenes just as a joke.

That is to say, it's not really much different from how you're proposing Gloomwood is meaning to be played if you ask me. At a fundamental level, in both you try and scour your way through the level while eliminating/bypassing obstacles by way of stealth and/or resource expenditure so that you can progress (and engage in kleptomania) in peace. The thing is though that Gloomwood (as is) doesn't have the objective variety of Thief, nor enemy AI on par or a difficulty equivalent to expert that'd impose some sort of restrictions, and outside of the fishery the level design doesn't have much breadth or complexity. As a result going about shanking or capping everyone is comparatively trivial and there's no disincentives holding you back from doing it. Since backtracking is meaning to be an element to some extent there's gonna be all the more reason to not trouble yourself with enemies left walking around. They need to start throwing some sort of curveballs later on or it's gonna get old.

>'Quickloading bad'
>"Ghosting" is self-imposed challenge malarkey.

Damn, but go off, sis.

Seriously though, I also prefer situations in Thief when I roll with the punches and have to use a variety of available tools, but that doesn't mean that the game doesn't give you all the ability and encouragement you need to just reload (through the presence of a manual saves - you can tell me to be temperate with my saving habits all you want but I'd argue that is not consistent with how you see ghosting as the meme chevrons above hopefully demonstrate) and mentioning fencing is laughable when killing is so often prohibited on the Expert difficulty. TDS had more gameplay variety going on due to a much higher emphasis on supernatural threats, to be fair.

I don't think the AI is actually worse than the one in Thief. Their peripheral vision in particular is pretty good. The main problem is the tuning of their reactions - anything that puts them in the alert state causes a lengthy "leering in direction of perceived threat" animation to play which is just backstab bait, which is pretty broken since the canesword, unlike the blackjack, can one-shot enemies even in the alert state. Maybe that's even pretty close to how it was in Thief (it has been a while since I played) but I am just too used to the swift-yet-noticable reaction delay of guards in Deus Ex that I would argue would work perfectly well here. Without considering the unimplemented Blood Moon setting (which will apparently impose a further limitation on saves which I like very much,) the game's difficulty certainly falls short of Thief's Expert, but greatly exceeds that of, say, Dishonored IMO.

I do agree that Gloomwood is going to live or die on its ability to flesh out its gameplay by introducing new tools, enemies, and level design features/objectives that continuously necessitate experimentation. To that end I am cautiously optimistic. Recently read that there will be an additional tough enemy type (Corpse Duster) that spawns if you kill too many people in a level, so that's a step in the right direction.

Sort of tangential to the point, but here are the tools as they are now:

-Canesword with a weak basic attack that permits parrying and has a charged up stab attack that is an OHK to enemies caught unaware. So a combination of Sword and Blackjack in Thief terms.

-Two direct combat firearms that differ in efficiency and range:
--Revolver takes 2-3 shots to kill enemies and takes up 2 inventory squares, extra ammo stacks into another 2 squares per 10 bullets (allowing you to kill 5 huntsmen or 8 dogs at close-medium range for the investment of 4 inventory squares)
--Shotgun is more efficient being an OHK at a point blank to close range, but takes up 4 squares to carry and another 1 for extra ammo

-Suppressed Pistol that can swap between 2 types of bolts:
--Basic bolts do pitiful damage but allow you to take out light sources and activate interactive objects from afar
--Incendiary bolts are sort of like poison darts from Deus Ex on steroids, certain death to enemies who will also set others on fire if they run into them, at the risk of gaining attention if the enemy manages to run around long enough to alert others.

-Bear Traps, though I have not tested to see what they actually do but I would imagine that b

-Medicines for healing and food for restoring sanity (latter not yet implemented)

-Glass bottle throwables with a high distraction range that break on impact

So although the arsenal appears slim it actually roughly covers the gameplay roles of Sword, Blackjack, Health Potions, Mines, and the following arrows: Broadheads, Water, Fire, Gas, Noisemakers, plus bear in mind that the bear trap (ahaahahahahaah get it I said bear twice ahahahaha) and Undertaker's bolts have unique properties that add their on twist to the gameplay rather than merely replicating the Thief arsenal. A harpoon gun that fires rope arrows is promised as well. Hopefully more placable traps, such as proper mines, different throwables like flash bangs or oil pots, and consumables with effects beyond simple healing will be implemented as well - if it is any indication, there are key binds for 9 weapons.

But obviously all these tools will only be used to the fullest if the game continously ramps up its complexity as to encourage experimentation through its enemy and level design. Hence why my biggest concern is whether the game is able to consistently provide a good amount of challenge and variety as it continues to develop.

 

[Boleskine]

Mac's verdict:

Spoiler

Though he says it's too early and will revisit the game later.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Its kinda weird, I don't really know New Blood's deal as a publisher.

Some stuff in here. Great channel btw, quite a few cool guests.

edit: on that note


It's pretty retarded how the channel has such low views, really lots of good shit on there, bumped into it looking for Sgt.Mark IV interviews and it did not dissapoint.

 

[Jenkem]

Well.. MACK has spoken... Gloomwood sisters, I don't feel so good....

 

[Wunderbar]

MACK, that guy who bruised his arm and cried that his life was over?

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I guess Mack has his heart in the right place, but he is kind of retarded. I wouldn‘t treat his reviews as authorative.