Great job, Bioware!

[Brother None]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

Apropos, people already stumbled all over this, but perhaps this would be a good read, mr Gaider.

I have no intention of buying Mass Effect. I no doubt will some day, once it is available through some medium with less stringent or no DRM. True enough, if ME sounded like a better game I might consider a purchase, but I don't normally pay to get abused. I'm not that kind of guy.

And no, I never pirate. I hate pirates (software pirates, real-life pirates are pretty cool). Still, it's funny how game publishers think they can harass and bully PC gamers like this and expect the market to thrive. You think PC gaming dying? Hell, if it is in a bad way, it's not dying, it's being killed.

Bunch of asstards.

 

[WalterKinde]

Wow thats the claim they made for mass effect in that wired interview?
Man that is low and a big "FUCK YOU" to loyal bioware fans.
ME was not looking like a "MUST BUY" for me now its looking like a never buy even at bargin bin prices now.
I boycotted Jade EMpire after reading the review of pc version , so i guess ME is going to get the same treatment too.
Lets hope you guys (EA/BIoware) don't mess up dragon age with a simliar drm, at least make your last original fantasy rpg PC game a good experience for pc users before going exclusively console.

 

[Brother None]

Wow thats the claim they made for mass effect in that wired interview?

You mean this thing?

Yip, pretty revisionist history

 

[Volourn]

"I own a rather large game collection (including several Bioware titles), larger than most people's in fact. I am also an avid pirate. If I would actually want to pay for every single book, game, movie, tv show, or music I have read, played, watched, or listened to, then I'm afraid I would need a few mortgages on a house I don't own. The same would go for a lot, if not most people. You and your ilk would deny such (that is, I posit, most) people these experiences, based on nothing but your own personal greed. Hey, that's cool. Whatever makes your boat float, man. You should however get off your high horse and see yourself for what you really are."

Hypocriote. Youa ccused BIO of being 'greedy'; but it's YOUR greed that leads you to pirtae aka STEAL games. Whose the greedy, selfish, immoral one here? Not Gaider, not BIO, not EA.

Noobody is forced to but ME. If you want it; pay for it. If you cna't handle the protections cheme - which EVERYONE was warned about ebfor ehand hence it wans't like it was snuck in - it's their choice.

So, shut it, you fuckin' piece of shit theif!!!

You are not owed games. Period. If youa rne't willing to pay the money then don't fuckin' buy it or play it. Fuckface.

 

[Texas Red]

How about decreasing the god damn price? At least pirates who sell their copies offer a price that is affordable to people in this region. I won't spend 20% of my salary on a company that has purposefully lied to me about their product(read the obviously bought "reviews").

BTW, the last time I saw those 2 doctors or whatever shouting that that little module for ME is 10 hours long. The reality was that it was 10 times less than that. In fact, Bioware has lied about the length of their games all the fucking time.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

I can see I've upset you, your spelling is even more horrible than it usually is. Wipe that froth off your mouth, you're being rather ridiculous.

Hypocriote. Youa ccused BIO of being 'greedy'; but it's YOUR greed that leads you to pirtae aka STEAL games. Whose the greedy, selfish, immoral one here? Not Gaider, not BIO, not EA.

Of course I'm greedy, snookums. I like the things I like and I will attempt to feel my wants whenever I can. When fulfilling my wants means infringing other people's enjoyment of their lives however, I do not go further than my particular code of ethics will allow. Luckily, copying has no effect on other people's lives, so my conscience is clear. I get to support companies and games I like (love), while getting a far bigger bang for my buck than any idiot who confuses copyright law with morality.

Noobody is forced to but ME. If you want it; pay for it. If you cna't handle the protections cheme - which EVERYONE was warned about ebfor ehand hence it wans't like it was snuck in - it's their choice.

So, shut it, you fuckin' piece of shit theif!!!

Oh dear me, I must've missed that press release saying people wouldn't be able to get their legitimate copies of the game to work. I can be so absentminded!

You are not owed games. Period. If youa rne't willing to pay the money then don't fuckin' buy it or play it. Fuckface.

No one is "owed" anything, dearie. No one is owed not having their games copied, for example.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Oh, and by the way, in before Categorical Imperative.

Let's have some fun with that...

What is this? You are not Xi. You need to be quiet.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

What is this? You are not Xi. You need to be quiet.

First time i bait in the codex and the only one who seems to take it is a guy who is in the same side i was posting from. Being a troll is just not for me, i guess.

 

[wjw]

It's really suprising how each of these threads ends up the same way.

Okay, so Bioware/EA made a mistake by adding security system Securom to their game, it's a mistake because the system doesn't work properly. Yes it's stupid that people who legally bought the game can't play it. Will it keep people from buying the next Bio game... ? i dunno. I think the actual game experience will be much more important in considering a next buy. Downloading a crack to play your legal game, can't be considered immoral.

All those who are downloading the game illegal, it's stealing. No matter how you put it. If games couldn't be downloaded/copied the sales would go up. There are multiple threads about this subject, read them instead of starting another one here.

About those people who say: the game is too expensive. Agreed, any game that hit shelves is quiet expensive. However, if you have a little patience, say like: 6 months, than you only pay half the price or even less for the same game. What's wrong with a little waiting?

 

[Sir_Brennus]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

Dear Mr. Gaider,

I have to inform you that I didn't pirate a game in years. Actually I spent more money on games in the last three years than I would have needed to buy a car in a better condition than my vehicle is.

Noone wants to stop your income or destroy your company, that is, by now nearly impossible as you are a part of the world's second biggest gaming conglomerate. EA can't possibly die in a short time, because they have about ten times the assets than Interplay had - and they haven't gone down because of them selling their licences.

The fact that the game on the PC did cost you that much is very much debateable. It's a console game that has been ported by a contractor. So, how much did you pay them? This is what the game did cost you, not the whole developing cost.

What do I think of your copyright scheme? Well, to be honest: I am not thrilled. It felt somewhat okay that you protected your NWN1 Premimum Modules with an internet check, because noone could buy this stuff in a box - you needed some kind of method to control legitimacy. It felt okay, because there was no ring0 application installed, but only a serial number looked up in a database. That was trouble free enough.

But Mass Effect's SecuroRom check is something different. Let me tell you one thing: I bought Two Worlds by Zuxxess/Topware, which included a similiar system: You coúld play the game without the DVD, but you had to check your version one before playing it for the first time. I did that on a 0-800 telefon number, because I am a little paranoid about companies having a peek into my computer and I try to limit that as much as possible. After the initial registration the game worked on the computer until you installed it on a different computer or changed your hardware significantly. You could do that three times before you had to contact the customer support to continue the activation process.

At first sight the above mentioned method was not so different from Mass Effect's: it was annoying and prone to trouble. But it was not as bad as thought, because you could use the phone instead of the internet activation process and that worked trouble free. The check worked as part of the game and not as part of the copy protection, as StarForce did. It did not install any ring0 application on my system.

There have been cracks for Two Worlds that allegedly worked - it didn't test them because the system was that flexible.

So, Mr. Gaider answer this questions, please:

Can I play Mass Effect WITHOUT the DVD in the drive?
Am I able to activate my product by PHONE for a reasonable price on a german speaking hotline?
Is the activation process PART of the GAME and does not install an independent SecuroRom application ?
Operates the application under the guidelines of user installed programes and is the SecuroRom system NO RING0 application like StarForce or the Sony DVD and Audio-CD rootkit was?

If you can't answer any of this questions with a plain and simple YES!, please tell me why I shouldn't install a crack for my game that will be delivered in a week's time (and at that time will surely be freely available) that I spent 41 hard earned Euros on?

Give me reasons if you give me choice or you will make the same mistakes again.

Your's sincerly

Sir_Brennus

 

[Binary]

To be honest, I think this was probably EA's idea, not Bioware.

Anyway, how these companies don't understand that these "protections" only hurt the legal consumer and not the pirate, is beyond me.

I'm not buying games with stupid protections anymore. Seems companies are happy to scare people away from PC games and onto consoles.

 

[Dolar]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

I just want to clear something up here. While I am not a bioware fanatical fanboy, I have enjoyed many of your games. In fact there is not one I don't own on one format or another. I even own both the kotor's and jade empire on the xbox and PC.

As for mass effect, I did buy the game for the 360, and I played it there. But I just felt the game would be better with a mouse and didn't go all the way through the game once i heard the pc version was due soon. So there I was, day one I braved my local Best Buy to pick up a copy, shelled out my 50 bucks. I take it home, and the game can't find my Internet connection... I have tried every workaround, Nothing has worked. 2 days now, and nothing at all has made my computer able to activate my game because of the draconian DRM.

I hate game pirates, and I hate the part they may have played in the overall apparent down swing in the current pc gaming market. I have never pirated a game, and never would. But I, your paying customer am now forced to search the internet and virus riddled crack sites in hope of finding a crack so i can play the game I payed for. Not only did I pay for it, but i paid for it twice.

Just looking at the torrent sites, I see there are full copies of the game, with cracks up for DL. So, in the end, who was hurt by your DRM? It was not the pirates, who seem to be happily playing the game. No, the person who was hurt was me, your paying customer.

Do you see why people don't like DRM? It's not because they want to pirate your game, thats going to happen if you use DRM or not frankly.

So I beg you sir, and anyone else at bioware, don't make this same mistake with dragon age. Please. It is a game I have been looking forward to ever since the day it was announced. Don't let fear of pirates ruin what could be the best game you guys have produced in the last 5 years.

 

[aron searle]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

If i buy you're product, and it doesent work, and the store wont accept it back.

You're a theif.



But no seriosly, i won't be buying you're game until i can get it DRM free

 

[Mareus]

Oh, and by the way, in before Categorical Imperative.

Let's have some fun with that...

conclusion: bioware is stupid.

Evil, not stupid. EVIL.

There's the evidence:

"Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end and never merely as a means to an end."

1. Bioware makes a game so people can have fun, this is an End.
2. Bioware also wants to make money, this is an End.

We have to realize wich is the MAIN "end" there, and wich is the "end" that just comes as a "means" to that main "end".

1. Can you have fun with the game without paying for it? Not if left to Bioware.
2. Can you pay for the game and then not have fun with it? Yup.
3. Must you first pay for the game or have fun with it? Pay for the game.

You can pay and not have fun, but you can't have fun and then not pay... What is the true end here? Yay. "Making Money", and humanity is just a "mean" to that "end". Also, they gave evidence of not caring for a few paying customers getting fucked in their pursuit of monetary gain and moral corruption.

So, is Bioware moral? No. For being Moral the End related to Humanity should come first and not able to become a mean, and "pay" should not leave anyone without the game. For an example: "Have fun with the game and then send us what money you can so we can eat and make another one." That would be Moral, from Bioware's side, and the inmoral ones would be those that while being able to send their money would not do it.

Now to the Evil Pirates, Thieves and Butchers of the Cyber-Seas:

1. Pirates make a crack so that anyone can enjoy Bioware's game, regardless of personal conditions and context.
2. Pirates add a text file to their download asking that if you like the game and can buy it please go and do so.
3. Pirates ask for nothing in exchange of the crack, keygen, xploit, etc.
4. Pirates distribute the crack, seed the CD images, and many other needed things without any obligation to do so.

You can say that "Glory" and "Challenge" are the ends of the pirate, but then there no need for 2 & 4. Also, if you read carefully the quote it says "always at the same time as an end" so, as long as any end other than Humanity does not make Humanity a mere mean you are still golden. Their Ends, if those even exist, complement with Humanity as an end (since they do not interfere with people having fun with the game regardless of context), Bioware's ones do not.

So, we can conclude:

Pirates = Moral heroes of the Cyber-Seas, fighting for those who can't defend themselves.
Bioware = Evil corsairs and privateers under EA's imperialist, amoral flag - Pillaging and sacking in the name of the crown and under the protection of law.

And all of this is actually quite similar to Bioware's belief of Ultimate Evil being to ask for money after making a good deed! The plot thickens!

Good Fun! :wink:

(don't flame little me... please? Just having a little fun there.)

This is fucking brilliant. Well done, Rambling Sage. :D

 

[Brother None]

To people talking about "people not being able to play because of DRM"

I agree, it's shit.

But it's exactly as much shit as - say - someone buying a Troika game on release day and finding it won't run because of an early game-stopping bug.

That will be patched. Just like this will be patched. The difference is of course that one problem is a part of the game and other a part of the security - and thus more evitable. But it's not different in any other way: the fact is that a guarantee that a product will immediately run and run well on release day on your computer has always been pretty scarce for PC productions.

Of course SecuROM messing it up "feels" more f'd up, but when it comes to pure business-consumer relations, you'd be hard-pressed to hold up to any economist that the situation is really different: the product you bought doesn't work, and the company is obliged to fix it (and not even that, really (see: Gothic 3)).

And in that sense, a crack is not that different from a fan patch - though I don't think companies would agree with that.

How about decreasing the god damn price? At least pirates who sell their copies offer a price that is affordable to people in this region. I won't spend 20% of my salary on a company that has purposefully lied to me about their product(read the obviously bought "reviews").

So don't buy it?

I've never stolen an Audi just because I think they're overprized and only driven by jackasses.

No one is "owed" anything, dearie. No one is owed not having their games copied, for example.

No, actually, "not having my property stolen" is pretty much a right.

The fact that the game on the PC did cost you that much is very much debateable. It's a console game that has been ported by a contractor. So, how much did you pay them? This is what the game did cost you, not the whole developing cost.

That's debateable, Sir Brennus. No one except possibly Microsoft were delusional enough to think this was an Xbox360-only game. Since its production planning probably started with the assumption that would be sold on both the X360 and the PC, its production costs were probably tailed to that. Just because "technically" this is a port because it's released later, the reality is that this is the same as - say - Fallout 3 being made for 360/PS3/PC. It's not like Bethesda should only ask full price for the 360 version just because that's their first platform. Same goes here, no matter the time difference.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

i think bioware is a pretty cool guy. eh fucks customers over with drm and doesn't afraid of anybody.

 

[Herbert West]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

there's already a cracked *.exe
the funny thing pirates will now play the game while legitimate customers won't.

I bought the game yesterday, and was unable to play it due to DRM issues. I posted about that on the official Bioware forums, and got a chorus of people having exactly the same problem (namely, that Mass Effect didn't believe we had internet and wouldn't let us start the game). I eventually figured out one way to solve the issue, which worked for me and a couple of others, and someone else found another approach, which worked for some of the rest. But there are still people posting in the thread who can't get the game they paid for working. And the only post from anyone at all affiliated with Bioware offered advice already available in the FAQ, and which my OP specifically stated had already been tried without effect.

I also submitted an official support request at the EA website, and should therefore have received a response within 24 hours . . . which never happened.

So why shouldn't people download the crack? I paid $50 for the game and then wasted five or six frustrating hours trying to get it to work. My problem was never officially acknowledged, and I never received an explanation, a solution, or an apology. If I hadn't managed to fix my issue -- I should say Bioware's issue -- on my own, you had damn well better believe I would be downloading that crack right now and not feeling the smallest iota of guilt.

People who think that Bio wanting money for their game is wrong should go back to kindergarten. And yes, pirating a game instead of buying it is stealing. That's obvious and there's no need to restate it.

The point is the abusive DRM which hurts none other than customers who legaly purchased your product- they've spent their hard-earned money in good faith, expecting to enjoy one of your games. Due to your choice of DRM measures, some of them can't do that- and they're left alone with their problems. Problems they absolutely shouldn't have- they've trusted you with their money.

Whereas pirates aren't bothered in the least by your DRM. They couldn't care less. It doesn't hurt them at all- there's a crack in the works, problably due in a few days or maybe it's out even now as we speak.

There's no unhackable DRM. If it can be made, it can be unmade. As crackers have proved time and again, disabling DRM seems to be a trivial matter for their combined abilities- it's unavoidable. It doesn't stop piracy, it doesn't even seem to slow it down.

Ergo- as it is, Mass Effect DRM is aimed at pirates, but they are already mocking it. Instead, it hits legal, paying customers with full force. It can't be named anything else than total failure.

Personally, I'll wait for some codexers opinion about this game. If it's deemed worthy, I will pay for it. But before I even run it, I'll download a crack to avoid DRM problems I shouldn't have.

 

[MetalCraze]

another conclusion: wasn't bioware's decision, ea is stupid.

To be honest, I think this was probably EA's idea, not Bioware.

it was Bioware - according to some interview about their DRM posted here at Codex (the one where they speaking about the removal of 10 days activation limit I believe) one of their members was saying that they want it by themselves to not let their game be stolen.

 

[dagorkan]

The problem with most of you is that you're spoiled children.

If you know beforehand that there are issues with DRM on a game (95% of you I bet) but want to play that game you basically have an offer and a pro and a con to accepting it. The pro is that that you will probably have fun, the con is that it might mess up your system. What you decide to do is your choice, if you are responsible and don't want to risk your computer then you don't buy the game, simple as that.

You gave up a couple of hours of video-gaming because you're responsible, good for you, now go and use that time to go play another game without DRM or a game you previously owned or watch a move or read a book or hang out with friends. Another decision for YOU to make.

It's not Bioware's problem, it's YOUR problem. Bioware is not limiting your freedom, they made an offer, YOU didn't take it. They are not stopping you playing another game or reading that book or seeing some friends. YOU decided not to play their game because of the risks.

Thieving the game after having made the choice doesn't solve the issue, it UNSOLVES it. What you've done is duck the responsibility issue and turned you an immoral person.

Choice and consequence are right there motherfuckers

YOU don't want to take responsibility, YOU don't want to make decisions...

And the decision isn't even that difficult. You're not deciding whether to risk your life to save some Jewish children in WW2 Germany - all you have to decide is whether to risk some spyware being installed on your computer to play a motherfucking video game! Get a fucking grip on yourselves

Sir Brennus is the exception, good post. He realizes it's his choice and what the problem is and is looking for an alternative solution, that is what is what adults do

 

[Disconnected]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

Isn't it great to see everyone talking about SecuROM & nobody talking about whether they actually like your game? I bet it's highly satisfying to the SecuROM, but what about you - is the reaction everything you hoped for?

I hope it bugs the shit out of you to see your DRM is a more memorable experience to your customers than your product.

Anyway, it's hard not to think of your company as greedy when it has gone from selling games at normal market prices, to leasing out installs for at least the same price.

If it's any comfort though, I don't think you deserve to be fucked with. I think you deserve to be ignored & forgotten. And if reviews were independent, rather than paid by you & your boss, they'd say the same about every other DRM-using games. To use Brother None's Audi analogy, publishers & developers like you are trying to sell people cars without the fucking engine & you're using rhetoric to the effect that "It's unreasonable to expect the fucking engine & you're just being greedy and evil".

Well fuck you. Cry all you want, you're entitled to no more sympathy than any other professional fraud.

And if people bought your shit, then fuck them too. Between the lot of you, you're killing PC gaming.

As for Brother None's analogy: nothing but a fucking fallacy. Since when was it ever acceptable that Operating Systems that come with a price tag in return for the promise of convenience & ease of use, aren't fucking backwards compatible? The answer is never. It has nothing to do with games not being developed by magicians & psychics, but everything to do with OS developers promising one thing & delivering another. Too bad EA DRMWare thinks that's behaviour worth emulating, but it doesn't make then any less a bunch of assholes who rather than your money, deserves a kick in the nads.

 

[Q]

I always pay for games I liked. But with such DRM, I will no doubt download crack - just to play. Well, I have no Internet at home, only on work, and I don't want to take so many troubles just to play what I'm already bought.

The games must be valued as art, not as a commercial success.

And Futile Rhetoric is somewhat right.

And The Rambling Sage's analysis, though unserious, contains some truth.

 

[fastpunk]

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

Then stop renting the damned thing for the price of a full game! Install limits... fuckin hell, you just need some common sense to see that it's just plain wrong.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

What is this? You are not Xi. You need to be quiet.

First time i bait in the codex and the only one who seems to take it is a guy who is in the same side i was posting from. Being a troll is just not for me, i guess.

You are not Xi. Only Mighty Xi may use the all-powerful Categorical Imperative as God intended. I wish it weren't so.

I am also not entirely sure how pointing out this simple and well-known fact means I've "taken the bait".

 

[MetalCraze]

meanwhile Reloaded cracker group is also released Mass Effect incl. crack. I'm sure the dark side (or better to say renegade, amirite DGaider?) part of the hivemind knows that reloaded never fucks things up. except it fucked Bioware in the a.

in other news - legitimate customers are still unable to play their legitimately owned game.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

meanwhile Reloaded cracker group is also released Mass Effect incl. crack.

Release note:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of our now former testers thought that it was nice to leak our crack to
a friend. Somehow this crack ended up with DETONATiON who thought that
disguising it a bit would allow them to get away with it.