Great job, Bioware!

[Warden]

Soulless and greedy applies more to him than to the 'corporate suits', he's the one without principle. These 'corporate' guys have families to feed as well, they're doing their jobs.

Feed them with diamonds?
Yeah, it would be better they go to feed starving children in Africa... ... if we want to be pathetic.

 

[dagorkan]

But do Skyway and Futile Rhetoric give the money they save on video games to feed those African children or to some other charity?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Raapys]

Publishers need to stop thinking about the people that aren't going to buy the game, and start thinking about the people that do pay for it. It's a sad day now that legitimate customers have to go look for crack to avoid the stupid DRMs and CD-checks. Even requiring an internet connection for an offline game in the first place is just plain silly.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

But do Skyway and Futile Rhetoric give the money they save on video games to feed those African children or to some other charity?

Somehow I doubt it.

What makes you think I save any money on video games?

 

[Warden]

Anyway, why you all discuss about this idiotic topic (piracy) so much?
When I discuss about biowhore's (that's supposedly a DIGTAL game developer) politics it's -OH-MY-GOD-, yet it's OH-SO-SUPER-SWELL to discuss about the politics.. against/pro piracy. :idea:

Who cares about piracy.. are you a developer/publisher? How does it concern you? Discuss about more important issues like earthquakes and tsunamis and global warming etc.

 

[dagorkan]

I don't care about pirating or Mass Effect or any of Bioware's game, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people in this thread... I'm allowed to do that right?

 

[Warden]

But do Skyway and Futile Rhetoric give the money they save on video games to feed those African children or to some other charity?

Somehow I doubt it.

They wouldn't pirate them if they had enough money to buy them without bigger damage to what they can eat. Imagine a fatty like dgaider giving up food for playing DIGTAL pc-games.. OH MY GOODNESS.

 

[Warden]

I don't care about pirating or Mass Effect or any of Bioware's game, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people in this thread... I'm allowed to do that right?

From my point of view.. of course. I'm pretty neutral on the issue of piracy. Couldn't care less.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people in this thread...

And you have done this where? Do you even know what the word means, pally?

 

[Thor Kaufman]

games should be open source because open source means it's free omg

 

[dagorkan]

Yes my dear, I have.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

There's the evidence:

"Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end and never merely as a means to an end."

1. Bioware makes a game so people can have fun, this is an End.
2. Bioware also wants to make money, this is an End.

We have to realize wich is the MAIN "end" there, and wich is the "end" that just comes as a "means" to that main "end".

1. Can you have fun with the game without paying for it? Not if left to Bioware.
2. Can you pay for the game and then not have fun with it? Yup.
3. Must you first pay for the game or have fun with it? Pay for the game.

You can pay and not have fun, but you can't have fun and then not pay... What is the true end here? Yay. "Making Money", and humanity is just a "mean" to that "end". Also, they gave evidence of not caring for a few paying customers getting fucked in their pursuit of monetary gain and moral corruption.

So, is Bioware moral? No. For being Moral the End related to Humanity should come first and not able to become a mean, and "pay" should not leave anyone without the game. For an example: "Have fun with the game and then send us what money you can so we can eat and make another one." That would be Moral, from Bioware's side, and the inmoral ones would be those that while being able to send their money would not do it.

Now to the Evil Pirates, Thieves and Butchers of the Cyber-Seas:

1. Pirates make a crack so that anyone can enjoy Bioware's game, regardless of personal conditions and context.
2. Pirates add a text file to their download asking that if you like the game and can buy it please go and do so.
3. Pirates ask for nothing in exchange of the crack, keygen, xploit, etc.
4. Pirates distribute the crack, seed the CD images, and many other needed things without any obligation to do so.

You can say that "Glory" and "Challenge" are the ends of the pirate, but then there no need for 2 & 4. Also, if you read carefully the quote it says "always at the same time as an end" so, as long as any end other than Humanity does not make Humanity a mere mean you are still golden. Their Ends, if those even exist, complement with Humanity as an end (since they do not interfere with people having fun with the game regardless of context), Bioware's ones do not.

So, we can conclude:

Pirates = Moral heroes of the Cyber-Seas, fighting for those who can't defend themselves.
Bioware = Evil corsairs and privateers under EA's imperialist, amoral flag - Pillaging and sacking in the name of the crown and under the protection of law.

And all of this is actually quite similar to Bioware's belief of Ultimate Evil being to ask for money after making a good deed! The plot thickens!

Good Fun! :wink:

(don't flame little me... please? Just having a little fun there.)

If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me.

Isn't it great to see everyone talking about SecuROM & nobody talking about whether they actually like your game? I bet it's highly satisfying to the SecuROM, but what about you - is the reaction everything you hoped for?

I hope it bugs the shit out of you to see your DRM is a more memorable experience to your customers than your product.

Anyway, it's hard not to think of your company as greedy when it has gone from selling games at normal market prices, to leasing out installs for at least the same price.

If it's any comfort though, I don't think you deserve to be fucked with. I think you deserve to be ignored & forgotten. And if reviews were independent, rather than paid by you & your boss, they'd say the same about every other DRM-using games. To use Brother None's Audi analogy, publishers & developers like you are trying to sell people cars without the fucking engine & you're using rhetoric to the effect that "It's unreasonable to expect the fucking engine & you're just being greedy and evil".

Well fuck you. Cry all you want, you're entitled to no more sympathy than any other professional fraud.

And if people bought your shit, then fuck them too. Between the lot of you, you're killing PC gaming.

As for Brother None's analogy: nothing but a fucking fallacy. Since when was it ever acceptable that Operating Systems that come with a price tag in return for the promise of convenience & ease of use, aren't fucking backwards compatible? The answer is never. It has nothing to do with games not being developed by magicians & psychics, but everything to do with OS developers promising one thing & delivering another. Too bad EA DRMWare thinks that's behaviour worth emulating, but it doesn't make then any less a bunch of assholes who rather than your money, deserves a kick in the nads.

Publishers need to stop thinking about the people that aren't going to buy the game, and start thinking about the people that do pay for it. It's a sad day now that legitimate customers have to go look for crack to avoid the stupid DRMs and CD-checks. Even requiring an internet connection for an offline game in the first place is just plain silly.

QFT

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Yes my dear, I have.

I've asked you two questions, both of which you've failed to answer. Well played, sweetie.

 

[Kingston]

I just don't get DRM. It doesn't stop piracy, it fucks up computers, so why have it? Why? If I buy a game, I damn well expect to do whatever the fuck I want with it, including installing it on several machines or borrowing it to my friend or reselling it, its *my* DVD now. What if movie DVDs had this DRM shit? You can't watch it on more than three DVD players? It has a chance of breaking your machine? People would go apeshit.

Get rid of DRM and I will buy it.

 

[Thor Kaufman]

This is where you are wrong, Kingston.

Not the people should have the power over their computers, their lives or other stuff but the corporations and the government. Jeez you're silly

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

its *my* DVD now

The DVD - Yes. The game - No. Remember Morrblivion?

 

[serch]

Quick question: can one's action that affects nobody but himself be immoral?

1º) An unknown percentage of pirates would buy the game if the did not have an illegal option.

2º) You violate the right that a creator of an intellectual property has to determine who enjoy it and in what conditions, so you discourage the growth of an industry that does not guaranty the enforcement of the rights given by the Law.

3º) You are a free rider, charging over the shoulders of legal customers the sustaining of a hobby you all enjoy.

 

[MetalCraze]

EULAs are written by soulless greedy corporate machines that will die alone.

And you're a soulless greedy little communist who will die alone.

how can I be greedy if I share? but oh shit I can't share my games with friends because those guys at EA/Bioware won't be able to buy another ferrari this month and probably won't release another shitty shallow arpg next year. oh wai- how can it be bad?

also read what Kingston wrote.

 

[Sir_Brennus]

I just don't get DRM. It doesn't stop piracy, it fucks up computers, so why have it? Why? If I buy a game, I damn well expect to do whatever the fuck I want with it, including installing it on several machines or borrowing it to my friend or reselling it, its *my* DVD now. What if movie DVDs had this DRM shit? You can't watch it on more than three DVD players? It has a chance of breaking your machine? People would go apeshit.

Get rid of DRM and I will buy it.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Settec-Alpha-DVD-protection-used-on-German-Mr_-Mrs_Smith.html

 

[Mareus]

1º) An unknown percentage of pirates would buy the game if the did not have an illegal option.

And how many people would not even try the game if there were no pirates? And then that friend gives the game to his 5 friends, etc. And from so many people, some will like the game so much they will actually buy the original version. The fact is you have no evidence how piracy effects sales. I could as well say that piracy has helped games become more widespread and will in the long run only increase the sales of the original games.

2º) You violate the right that a creator of an intellectual property has to determine who enjoy it and in what conditions, so you discourage the growth of an industry that does not guaranty the enforcement of the rights given by the Law.

More capitalistic propaganda. If the people who wrote books had the same viewpoint as you described, I guess we would still live in middle ages. When the printing machine (excuse my lack of english) came out around the year 1500 it meant more books for the poor and more education.

3º) You are a free rider, charging over the shoulders of legal customers the sustaining of a hobby you all enjoy.

And you sir are a drone brainwashed by capitalistic moral values which will in the long run destroy everything human in humans. But I guess it's ok, as long as the law says it's ok and as long as companies make more money out of it.

 

[MetalCraze]

What if movie DVDs had this DRM shit?

IIRC Blu-ray players already have this bullshit on the hardware level. they won't play your blu-ray movie unless it has a special info in a special sector of the disc. you can't also copy it directly because blu-ray recorders released for people on hardware level can't record that sector. only special blu-ray recorders on factories. now imagine if the blu-ray track with that small sector will get scratched.
however oh cruel world - it doesn't stop pirates from simply recording it using "analog hole" - simply recording what is shown on a pc screen using special software.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

1º) An unknown percentage of pirates would buy the game if the did not have an illegal option.

An unknown percentage of pirates does buy the game after pirating it, which they may not have done otherwise.

2º) You violate the right that a creator of an intellectual property has to determine who enjoy it and in what conditions, so you discourage the growth of an industry that does not guaranty the enforcement of the rights given by the Law.

What if I don't want those filthy Jews playing my games, can I put that in the EULA too? No? Damn, now I'm discouraged. You've lost me as a potential game developer, man.

No. Intellectual property is meant to preserve the profitability of creativity. Well, guess what -- games are profitable, and there's certainly no dearth of new ones. Intellectual property was never meant as a tool for the producer to dictate who uses his product, or how and when it's used. It was meant to encourage various industries by making sure they would be able to cover the costs of production, as well as make a profit.

3º) You are a free rider, charging over the shoulders of legal customers the sustaining of a hobby you all enjoy.

Or alternatively, everyone ends up pitching in to fund the companies they love, while enjoying a far larger collection of games than they would have otherwise. In the same way that I might get a subscription to Showtime for shows like Dexter and Penn & Teller: Bullshit!, and catch an episode of Weeds on an otherwise boring evening that I would've filled somehow anyway. I certainly wouldn't have paid for Weeds, just like the person who paid for Showtime to watch Weeds and Californication might not have paid for Dexter, but ends up catching an odd episode and enjoying it. Everyone pays for different parts of the pie, but ends up getting the whole pie -- that's the beauty of unlimited, costless reproducibility.

 

[aron searle]

They wouldn't pirate them if they had enough money to buy them

fuck

off

 

[Hory]

Fapping in the toilet?

And this choice doesn't have consequences at the level of society? If people didn't "fap in the toilet", many would be forced to compensate by finding other sources of sexual satisfaction. Some might get off their ass and actually find a woman. From there, the ramifications are endless. Some might stick to sex, some might marry her, some might just rape her because they're desperate.

Second, fapping the bathroom is by itself a consequence of social norms. Maybe sex isn't such a big taboo in other cultures, or maybe it is worse and fapping is being actively supressed. Or maybe some families just live in a one-room house.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

2º) You violate the right that a creator of an intellectual property has to determine who enjoy it and in what conditions, so you discourage the growth of an industry that does not guaranty the enforcement of the rights given by the Law.

Can the so called "creations of the mind" of Intellectual Property exist outside their context? Or, more so, can the mind exist outside it's context? There is a simple answer to that second question, and that is "no" - we could go into that but that would be far outside the topic (we can in another thread if you want). Is an Intellectual Property a creation of it's "Creator" or a creation of it's context by means of it's creator? Would those guys at Bioware have created Mass Effect in the absence of the Cultural Context that gave them the symbols, meanings, inspirations, and ideas behind this 'creation'? The answer to that is also "no", since Mind and Context are closely related. So why has Bioware the right to deny or condition the access of that Cultural Context to the same Mass Effect IT made possible?

Also, it didn't grew to be an industry because of Intellectual Property and the Laws that protect it. It grew to be an industry because it was a natural product of a given Cultural Context. The industry, and the laws, came after. So why should we care about the industry? Games are not a product of such industry, the industry is a product of games. And why should we care about laws protecting an industry instead of protecting the Cultural Context that allows that Industry to thrive in the first place?

Bioware is not paying to the descendants of the first guy who thought "let's do shit to have some fun", as far as i know. Not to the guy who first thought "Let's make some shit in the computer so people can have some fun." Not to the first guy who thought "Let's write some shit about people in space so people can read it and have some fun." Not to the first guy who thought "Let's have some weird blue aliens in our thing about shit in space." Etc, blah blah. So why should we pay to the first guy who said "Let's make some shit and call it Mass Effect so people can have fun." ? Because he said so? No, thanks.

People will pay them to make more shit like Mass Effect if they like the product, as always happened when people liked something and wanted more. Art, games, and a whole lot of other crap thrived far before there was even the concept of Intellectual Property. It is just greed, pure and simple - It is not "we want to make a living and be able to continue with our craft", it is "We want all we can get our dirty paws on."

And the pirates say "Fuck you." Good for them.