Great job, Bioware!

[Unradscorpion]

This is my stop, I have to get off the FAILtrain, you people enjoy your ride.

 

[Xi]

Let me ask something: would you have any complaints against the limited number of activations even if it was possible to identify the consumer without error, and tie the purchase to the person?

I've run into this issue myself with "Fate" and after two installations I had to call them to make it work again. So, no I think the 3 activation method does kind of suck as it is a bit too intrusive, but I recognize the right for them to add such measures to their software, it's their software after all. Still, I'm not going to disagree with you on this, they need to continue refining DRM until it is so seamless and functional that these type of issues no longer exist while the DRM serves its anti-piracy purpose.

So to go beyond your question a little, the ME DRM is pretty seamless, because the actual securom happens during loading and the user never sees it, but this measure of intrusive 3 activation is a bit much. There are other ways they could have done it. Maybe IP checks, Hardware comparisons, etc. Still, most people won't feel the effect of the 3 install because it is very unlikely that people will format/reinstall the software in such a short period of time. Most people will play the game in its entirety and not play it much after that. /shrug So I guess a highly re-playable game could pose more of a challenge for this, and it's a shame that a lot of games aren't very re-playable, but I don't blame DRM for lowering the re-playability or anything.(A game that you play off and on for years, aka fallout, daggerfall, etc.) Just needs some refining.

Edit: Even 5-10 would be better as it would circumvent too much passing around of the software online, and would be highly unlikely that anyone would achieve so many install/uninstalls. It is pretty invasive in this regard.

 

[Depressinator]

This thread is seriously depressing.

I've been making an unannounced RPG for about a year now but stuff like this seriously makes me wonder if there is any point, though it's too late to quit now I guess.

As has been pointed out, why do you need to play a whole fucking game to decide if it's worth buying. I plan to have a playable demo that shows all the basics of the game and showcases my writing and design ability, and if being able to play til you've gained 3-4 levels isn't enough to decide then what is?

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week. That's it. That's its whole goal, aside from stopping casual copying for friends. The reason is that if the game is not cracked then their immediate sales will be doubled (as has been show again and again and again). That takes the wind out of any of the bullshit arguments that people are spewing here. The reason being that these people CAN afford the games and they want it so badly they HAVE to have it right away, they can't wait a week for a patch.

You can't tell me they are not enjoying these games if they desperately need it so much they will buy it if no crack is immediately available. Well, you can, but it just shows you are a lying asshole.

The problem is, these companies do take things too far. There is really not any big point to having the activation bullshit. It's extremely invasive, and it adds little or no actual security. It's like trying to lock the door with 100 locks that take forever for people to pass through when every window in the house is wide open. I think the problem is business people are making these decisions, not people with computer science knowledge (aka people who have a fucking brain). Not that I imagine any bioware programmers fall into that category, having seen their forum posts many a time.

I guess for me since I will probably only have digital download DRM is not even an option in the first place, unless I did something like a steamlike system. I am not sure how much shit like that really helps, though. I am guessing that ultimately I will be one more casualty and I will end up making one game, wasting my entire life savings to do it, having quit a job making lots of money.

I'm probably literally throwing out hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a game that won't even pay my rent, and there are commie assholes in this thread who are talking about their rights to steal what I am making. You'd think the dumbfucks who are in the mess they are from communism would get it by now that it doesn't work, but I guess some Russians are just that unbearably stupid. Communism isn't practical, you dumbfucks. There's no such thing as free! Never has been, never will be. As much as the commies and niggers might hope for it and pray for it, it aint reality. By merely existing and stuffing your pieholes, you are draining the resources the rest of us who actually do something positive for society need to get things done.

If you can afford to have hardware that will run a modern game you can afford to buy a fucking game. Suck it up and be men, you fucking pussy faggots! You are not entitled to play every fucking game ever created any more than you can go out and pick and choose what car to drive this week. If you drop it off afterward, what harm does it do anyway, right?

If you only bought 5-6 games a year instead of pirating a million games the world would be a ten times better place. First, you might go outside more than once a month. Second, the people who deserve to be paid for their work would be (ie someone could make a good game and still pay his rent). Third, when you spent your money you'd be careful with it and not buy just any overhyped crap on the day of release like a fucking drone, but would buy shit that's worth buying (ie not mass effect, which is mediocre FPS masquerading as an RPG - RPG doesn't mean 'a game with a story' you shitheads!). Then we might actually see a decent game made more than once every 5 years when some deluded dickhead like me goes the troika route and makes the foolish decision to waste a shitload of fucking money on something with no chance of breaking even.

If people truly 'tried before they buyed' then we would not have the mess we do, so obviously that's a lie. I am sure a few do that, but if you have ever played a game to the end and not payed for it, then you are a pathetic lying piece of crap if you make that claim.

 

[pkt-zer0]

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week.

It's not really working, then. Two days until Mass Effect is even released in Europe, and it's already cracked, AFAIK.

 

[WalterKinde]

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week.

Plus if thats the only reason (personally i don't believe thats the only reason the drm you see on ME and Bioshock is there its a way to kill second sale as well as limit consumer rights but that is just me) why is there never an official release by the game publishers that "well give us six months and by then the drm will be removed via a patch".
If its about really limiting the p2p download crowds wouldn't that be a reasonable statement to make for the game publisher?

 

[elander_]

"There's no such thing as free! Never has been, never will be."

Air.

 

[Barbader]

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week.

It's not really working, then. Two days until Mass Effect is even released in Europe, and it's already cracked, AFAIK.

FIVE cracks yet and not really cracked at all... Great job Bioware!

 

[DefJam101]

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week.

It's not really working, then. Two days until Mass Effect is even released in Europe, and it's already cracked, AFAIK.

FIVE cracks yet and not really cracked at all... Great job Bioware!

Mass Effect has been fully cracked for over 3 days now. All you need is a cracked .exe and a readily available program.

 

[Barbader]

Mass Effect has been fully cracked for over 3 days now. All you need is a cracked .exe and a readily available program.

The last (modified)crack release was today and was almost succesful but seems that errors still present. The triggers of the protection wasnt removed in his completitude.

 

[DefJam101]

Mass Effect has been fully cracked for over 3 days now. All you need is a cracked .exe and a readily available program.

The last (modified)crack release was today and was almost succesful but seems that errors still present. The triggers of the protection wasnt removed in his completitude.

Trust me, I know it's cracked. I've seen the program. I've tried using it on my retail version, my friend from another forum is playing the game pirated right now. It's cracked.

 

[Raapys]

What annoys me is the fact that despite all this piracy annoying companies like Bethesda are still making a profit.

 

[Xi]

What annoys me is the fact that despite all this piracy annoying companies like Bethesda are still making a profit.

Morrowind PC didn't sell very well. The console version out paced it by a lot.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... mitstart=3

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Publisher: Bethesda Softworks
Developer: Bethesda Softworks
Released: Apr ’02
Estimated Sales: 300,000
Franchise Sales: 990,000
Revenues: $11.7 Million
Game ranking: 88.5%

Take this with a grian of salt, as I've seen different numbers for games on this list elsewhere, but this seems pathetic no?

Didn't the Xbox and PC combined do something like 4 million units? Basically, the PC version didn't do that well. They pretty much silently switched to the consoles and are just releasing a port of the console versions to the PC anymore. Morrowind was well received I thought too.

 

[Foamhead]

This thread is seriously depressing.

There's no such thing as free! Never has been, never will be. As much as the commies and niggers might hope for it and pray for it, it aint reality.

Judging from stellar writing like this we can all be sure it will be an RPG tour de force, the likes of which have not been seen since "Ethnic Cleansing" by resistance records.

 

[ushdugery]

You are all trying to stake yourself some sort of moral high ground when in all society it is impossible to say truthfully that you have your hands clean of blood. Small example; almost all western supermarkets have their sell by date as at least seven days before their used by date, yet stealing from their bins would get you arrested and in third world countries emerging economies there are food riots. Buying products that are chinese made or supporting a government that makes allowances for them supports their bad fuel policy helping to artificially raise the demand and hence the price and also oppression of tibet. The american and many other governments have for years paid tithe to the north korean government effectively paying for a dictatorship to continue running, these are just some examples but attacking each other on your morality on these issues is fucking stupid. All you can really have is small honesty and trust between those close like between developers and the fans that have supported them for years and allowed them to do what they love maybe not screwing them over is a good thing.

P.S. I also think trying to rationalise piracy as if it's some sort of moral imperative is stupid dishonesty towards yourself and it's only going to hurt you in the end.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week.

It's not really working, then. Two days until Mass Effect is even released in Europe, and it's already cracked, AFAIK.

FIVE cracks yet and not really cracked at all... Great job Bioware!

Mass Effect has been fully cracked for over 3 days now. All you need is a cracked .exe and a readily available program.

Actually, all you need is love and the one cracked .exe-file out of five that works.

edit: Also, piracy is wrong. I bought my Mass Effect and I think everyone else should too! Oh! 'Tis lonely being a Mass Effect purchaser!

 

[MetalCraze]

you're not alone. there's a whole thread about how wonderful and interesting Mass Effect for PC is with thoughts on great non-linear minigame sidequests and some volournian flavour.
the game is also two times longer than anything apparently.
it also has less cliches than FF7

 

[Faceless]

Even more startling: Oblivion hasn't even sold one copy on PC. :shock:
These sites are not reliable for software sales.

http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=7312
http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=19294

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Rule: any site that replace "s" with a "z" is not a good source of information.

 

[Mareus]

This thread is seriously depressing.

Yep, because of the ammount of dumbfuckery and stubborness of some people that just cannot accept other people's oppinions.

As has been pointed out, why do you need to play a whole fucking game to decide if it's worth buying. I plan to have a playable demo that shows all the basics of the game and showcases my writing and design ability, and if being able to play til you've gained 3-4 levels isn't enough to decide then what is?

If you really believe that 30-60 minutes of playing a demo is enough for you to decide if the game is worth buying or not, then your standards are obviously so low that you can have fun by playing games like Doom 3 and other similar shit. Do you know how many demos I played only to discover the demo was the only fun part? Dozens! For every intelligent person that would be enough to stop putting their trust in demos. I ll just mention Kotor2 which 3/4 of the game was better than Kotor1, but then the last 1/4 was so badly done that in the end Kotor 1 felt much more satisfying for me.

What people don't realize is that the biggest point of DRM is to keep the game from being cracked the first week. That's it. That's its whole goal, aside from stopping casual copying for friends. The reason is that if the game is not cracked then their immediate sales will be doubled (as has been show again and again and again). That takes the wind out of any of the bullshit arguments that people are spewing here. The reason being that these people CAN afford the games and they want it so badly they HAVE to have it right away, they can't wait a week for a patch.

What the fuck are you rambling about? Where have you found a study how DRM increases sales? If anything DRM is screwing with customers and I really don't see how anyone can say this is good for buisness. If anything, DRM is turning paying customers to pirates, because nobody wants to buy something he will never own. It's like buying a movie, which you can only see 3 times, before having to beg for another activation. The worst part is that it prevents sharing of games with your friends! If someone ever said to me that I cannot borrow my book or a movie to my friends I would fucking hit him in the face and you can bet your ass I would never again buy a book or a movie. DRM is typical capitalistic crap that wants to prevent sharing of art and keep it exclusevily for people who have money.

You can't tell me they are not enjoying these games if they desperately need it so much they will buy it if no crack is immediately available. Well, you can, but it just shows you are a lying asshole.

I can assure you that waiting a week for a crack to be released by pirates is not a problem for any pirate. It is only problem for spoiled rich children which will buy the game anyway.

The problem is, these companies do take things too far. There is really not any big point to having the activation bullshit. It's extremely invasive, and it adds little or no actual security. It's like trying to lock the door with 100 locks that take forever for people to pass through when every window in the house is wide open. I think the problem is business people are making these decisions, not people with computer science knowledge (aka people who have a fucking brain). Not that I imagine any bioware programmers fall into that category, having seen their forum posts many a time.

I agree 100%.

I'm probably literally throwing out hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a game that won't even pay my rent, and there are commie assholes in this thread who are talking about their rights to steal what I am making. You'd think the dumbfucks who are in the mess they are from communism would get it by now that it doesn't work, but I guess some Russians are just that unbearably stupid.

Fuck you, you fucking capitalistic greedy asswipe. If you make a good game it will sell if not it will not sell, and I can bet my ass some of those communist dumbfucks will buy your game after trying the pirated version IF THEY LIKED IT. How this is lost profit for you I cannot understand. Pirates will spread your game to people who can't afford to buy every game that comes out. Those people will copy it further to their friends and some of those people will buy the original if they liked what they played, which they would otherwise NEVER do because people with money problems cannot afford to buy every game that comes out. Rich people will always buy games, while poorer people will only buy the games they liked. If there were no pirates, poor people would not buy games at all, so how is this lost profit to you I ask again?? The reason why you capitalist assholes are afraid of pirates is because they prevent people being tricked by marketing, shitty demos and bribed magazines. Capitalists are just trying to earn a fast buck by investing little into games and a lot into marketing, because they know most people are stupid enough to fall for the trick. That's why pirates hurt you. If you will blame it on communist pirates and say you went bankrupt because of them it just means you made a shitty game.

Communism isn't practical, you dumbfucks. There's no such thing as free! Never has been, never will be. As much as the commies and niggers might hope for it and pray for it, it aint reality. By merely existing and stuffing your pieholes, you are draining the resources the rest of us who actually do something positive for society need to get things done.

You selfish capitalistic emotionless moron, for your information first societies were based on the same principles as communism. Societies that didn't even understad the meaning of words like greed and lies. Something other societies (especialy capitalism) made very common, even desireable. Communists didn't drain the resources you fucking asswipe, or do I have to remind you that USA spends over 50% of world's resources and 50% of all polution comes from greedy capitalistic assholes from USA. Communism is about sharing and helping those in need, something you capitalistic morons will never understand. And the reason why communism failed is because of their leaders who failed to understand what communism is all about.

If you can afford to have hardware that will run a modern game you can afford to buy a fucking game. Suck it up and be men, you fucking pussy faggots! You are not entitled to play every fucking game ever created any more than you can go out and pick and choose what car to drive this week. If you drop it off afterward, what harm does it do anyway, right?

It's not the same, and affording the computer is not the same as affording games.

If you only bought 5-6 games a year instead of pirating a million games the world would be a ten times better place. First, you might go outside more than once a month. Second, the people who deserve to be paid for their work would be (ie someone could make a good game and still pay his rent). Third, when you spent your money you'd be careful with it and not buy just any overhyped crap on the day of release like a fucking drone, but would buy shit that's worth buying (ie not mass effect, which is mediocre FPS masquerading as an RPG - RPG doesn't mean 'a game with a story' you shitheads!). Then we might actually see a decent game made more than once every 5 years when some deluded dickhead like me goes the troika route and makes the foolish decision to waste a shitload of fucking money on something with no chance of breaking even.

I am a pirate and I buy more than 5 games per year thanks to trying them out first. Something I would otherwise never do IF I didn't have the chance to try the game out. The reason why your game will probably not sell is because you are too big of a moron to be able to create anything worthwhile (even medicore). Also, I would point the blame on greedy capitalistic assholes such as yourself who get into the gaming buisness for money while they should get into the buisness to create something positive. But I guess money comes first for people as yourself.

If people truly 'tried before they buyed' then we would not have the mess we do, so obviously that's a lie. I am sure a few do that, but if you have ever played a game to the end and not payed for it, then you are a pathetic lying piece of crap if you make that claim.

What mess, you asshole? You mean companies who earn billions of $ and make more and more shitty games?? That does not have anything to do with piracy. If anything, I remember the days when piracy was even more widespread than today, but that never prevented people making quality games. The problem is in your capitalistic aproach towards gaming, where you see it just as another way to make money instead of another medium which can push the art even further.

 

[Depressinator]

This thread is seriously depressing.

There's no such thing as free! Never has been, never will be. As much as the commies and niggers might hope for it and pray for it, it aint reality.

Judging from stellar writing like this we can all be sure it will be an RPG tour de force, the likes of which have not been seen since "Ethnic Cleansing" by resistance records.

Just because I'm not a politically overcorrect faggot like yourself doesn't mean I don't have a godlike IQ and a penis that could crush the sun.

@random people - Even a couple days buys them massive sales increases, but bioware is also stupid and greedy. If they were smart they'd release self cracks for some of their software after a given time. If they did, pirates might not even bother cracking it in the first place. All the activation shit is obviously just misguided and pointless, though.

 

[Depressinator]

I'm the biggest idiot eve.r

Won't argue with that.

 

[Depressinator]

You are all trying to stake yourself some sort of moral high ground when in all society it is impossible to say truthfully that you have your hands clean of blood. Small example; almost all western supermarkets have their sell by date as at least seven days before their used by date, yet stealing from their bins would get you arrested and in third world countries emerging economies there are food riots. Buying products that are chinese made or supporting a government that makes allowances for them supports their bad fuel policy helping to artificially raise the demand and hence the price and also oppression of tibet. The american and many other governments have for years paid tithe to the north korean government effectively paying for a dictatorship to continue running, these are just some examples but attacking each other on your morality on these issues is fucking stupid. All you can really have is small honesty and trust between those close like between developers and the fans that have supported them for years and allowed them to do what they love maybe not screwing them over is a good thing.

P.S. I also think trying to rationalise piracy as if it's some sort of moral imperative is stupid dishonesty towards yourself and it's only going to hurt you in the end.

Crazy as it might seem, two wrongs don't make a right. Your post is completely irrelevant even if any of your claims made any real sense, which is debatable.

 

[Mareus]

Fuck you, you fucking nazzie capitalistic moron. I hope you go bankrupt and that you spend the rest of your life digging through cans.

And guess what? I will still pirate games and you can kiss my fat pirate ass.

 

[Jasede]

I miss the days where you could make stupid people leave by just spamming shock porn.

 

[Depressinator]

Fuck you, you fucking nazzie capitalistic moron. I hope you go bankrupt and that you spend the rest of your life digging through cans.

And guess what? I will still pirate games and you can kiss my fat pirate ass.

Nazzie? Sounds like a nice houseplant of some kind.

I'm not too concerned with losers like you, anyway. Anyone who is a proseletizing pirate is either a total lunatic/dipshit that would never really get the kind of game I am trying to make and/or simply too poor to ever afford to pay for it in the first place.

It's annoying to see this attitude but I can only hope there are enough people like myself that realize that if no one buys games then we get stuck with the lowest common denominator shit like we are seeing over and over.

You seem to think I am some greedy capitalist, but I will be happy to simply be able to do this permanently for a living. I have moved into a house less than half the size of my other house and give up a job making six figures so that hopefully I can make the kind of game I myself want to play. It's a sad world where this is the only way to get an actual RPG, and sadder that even if I succeed by the time I am done I will be sick to death of my own game.

If you can't get behind that, which is basically me going through extreme personal hardship in order to make you personally the kind of game codexers claim to want to play, then you need a new tag that is much stronger than the "DUMBFUCK!!!" tag I have chuckled at so many times. Maybe if you wait long enough they will have a publicly funded RPG with C&C that is funded through the magic of socialism instead of capitalism - ie, we admit people are too stupid to decide for themselves and forve them to pay for whatever the government decides a game should be like. Perhaps a teletubby themed RPG.

PS - if you can't figure out if you like a game after an hour or two or playing and reading a couple player reviews, you are probably too stupid to play games anyhow.