Great job, Bioware!

[Darth Roxor]

I can't believe people still post here and repeat everything that was said before another thousand times.

 

[elander_]

omg I've used my 3 installations of bioshock and tech-support say they don't believe me that I've bought the game. Honest guys! Love'em all!

These guys are the true pirates. They are the ones who are getting their hands in people pockets.

 

[Fez]

VD's arguments seem reasonable to me. He doesn't like the obtrusive and disruptive DRM and other annoying stuff of that ilk and he doesn't like the "Robin Hood" syndrome.

This thread will go in circles until it finally spirals into Retardoland.

 

[aries202]

As far as I know : there are some cracks and hacks out there for Mass Effect for PC. But they seem to make The Galaxy Map unplayable and also make it so that you can't play anymore.

I don't know quite what happened but in the bioware tech forum for MEPC there are many people who posts they have had to use a crack just to get the game to run. These posts are not deleted - at least not as of late last night European time. The Bioware seems aware of the many tech problems legal owners of MEPC are having and is apparently hard at work trying to fix these problems.

Several people of the Boware tech forum mentioned that they had used the crack to get their LEGALLY bought game (without the shouting of course) to work but that they couldn't play anymore when they got their own ship after about an hour. This seems like something similar as to what Titan Quest did but unless the devs. etc. make exactly clear to people why they can't play the game anymore, i.e. that they can't play because they used a pirated cracked version of the game, tsuch measures are futile, I find.

As for the three installs. Let me again remind youthat it is not three installs; it is three activations. You can install and uninstall as many times as you want on the same machine - if you don't reformat or re-install windows xp or windows vista.

As for the whole drm scheme and debate; it looks like Bioware and EA at least seem to have held the pirates at bay for at least 2 says or so. However, Bioshock was still cracked within two weeks time or so. My best qualified guess is that this will also happen to MEPC - eventually. As always, I won't be doing it, since I don't condone piracy in any way, shape or form.

 

[MetalCraze]

at some point I was reinstalling xp each 2 weeks - 1 month.
as for bioware tech-support - it is an utter piece of shit. note how they are sending many customers having the problem with the game to -EA tech-support-.
it's like EA knows more about Mass Effect than the devs who've made it.

This thread will go in circles until if finally spirals into Retardoland.

it is time.

 

[sah]

Found this on the internet, it's about Mass Effect: Translated:

The security seems to be better than expected, leaked versions give alot of trouble: you can't save, or can't continue the game without cheating/using the console. So i am not gonna use the leaked version, but BUY (Booya!!) the game in the store when the price has dropped.

I know from practice negative comments under torrents are a deterrent. Not that they encourage 100% leechers to buy a game, but some of them, yes. That said, if 100% games were 100% secure, I would have taken up a different hobby (gardening?) a long time ago.

 

[Shannow]

The security seems to be better than expected, leaked versions give alot of trouble: you can't save, or can't continue the game without cheating/using the console. So i am not gonna use the leaked version, but BUY (Booya!!) the game in the store when the price has dropped.

Because there probably won't be a working cracked version out by the time the price drops?

 

[aron searle]

I can't believe people still post here and repeat everything that was said before another thousand times.

Irony

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I uh...don't get "vendettas" over entertainment products. I really don't give a shit if someone hates or likes the same video games as me.

No I'm more refering to the fact you explicitly state you are in no way a fan of the Codex...and yet...you come back here...why?

(Not my first post by the way)

According to the search it was. I'm not that determined to e-stalk you.

I have no clue what the hell these quotes, (out of context I might add) are supposed to prove. Most were made in jest and the people who I was talking to knew so.

Sure they are...

Do you really think I give a flying poodle dick what anyone thinks?

Obviously you do with all that rage you spill all over the place...

No one has asked me to "back up my claims" because I never made any, having roughly 10 or less posts since I registered here four years ago.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... ht=#186038

How exactly does someone "back up" a personal preference in something?

You don't. But you also come across as a really annoying person when you try to shove absolute relativism down people's throats.

The only shitstorm on this issue is between pirates who feel a need to justify to themselves their criminal activities and people who don't break the fucking law.

I think an appropriate analogy for the situation might be jaywalking. If someone was to jaywalk and then have another person go and say that their jayalking as equivalent to trespassing in front of a lot of people, I'm sure they'd want to defend themselves.

You don't get to talk about anyones wit or intelligence until you at least learn what a straw-man argument actually is. A straw-man is when you set up a ridiculous and inaccurate caricature of your opponents argument or beliefs and then proceed to easily tear them down, all the while ignoring his or her actual position.

The vibe I am getting is there are two type of rpg fans, those who like Fallout and those who like things besides Fallout. The hardcore Fallout fans pretend that they like "quality Rpgs" but in reality they only like Fallout and will never like or say anything positive about any game that is not an exact clone. They think every single game should be played from a 3/4 isometric view, must have turn based combat, must have dialogue trees and so on and so fourth. Well guess what, your tastes are not the only tastes that matter and you may as well not buy games anymore because no one is going to make a game just for you unless you wanna pay for it.

I'd keep quiet too if I knew the second I announced real time, first person perspective or anything else the Fallout fanboys will hate that they would throw us down and gang rape us until we didn't have assholes anymore. I don't know why your company bought the rights but God be with you brother.

I was speaking in purely a metaphorical sense Very Happy I can't even go to the No Mutants Allowed forums because they treat that game like it is a religious experience. I wish Bethesda would just re-release Fallout 2, with the 2 crossed out and a big 3 written over it. Then they can finally all have the sequel they truly desire.

Someone here suffers from "I didn't actually read the post" syndrome. I don't like the Elder Scrolls either, I just don't shit my fucking pants when someone else does like you obviously do. Unfortunately when you finally get around to moving out of your parents basement one of these decades you will learn that the world is full of people who like different things. You can't provide evidence for "this sucks" and "this is good" because opinions can't be qualified. It's unfortunate that kids like you are allowed access to public forums before you learn that just because you are incapable of understanding why someone may like something you hate does not mean you know something they don't or that they are mentally inferior to you.

Point out the straw men in the above please because I am oh so incapable of doing it...

"Pot i'd like you to meet the kettle, i'm sure you'll have plenty to bitch about."

Mr. Gaider has as much right to treat others the way he is treated

And vice versa.

just like any other human being.

Uhhh....I guess Codexers aren't human beings to you.....l

You seem to want to take the moral high ground here, while flinging insults at everyone here. I guess I'll play my egomaniac card and ask why in the hell are you assuming I'm one of the gibbering hordes here? I just generally don't like it when someone walks in and shouts "You're all assholes" to a group of people.

Do you know how many game developers, hell entertainment figures in general actually take the time to show up at fan sites and talk to people?

He's pretty welcomed whenever he does anything constructive, but lately it's all snide remarks that, while less immature than what he's getting here, aren't exactly a shining example.

And his reward for giving people his time, time he could be spending with his friends and family, is to be insulted and talked down to.

His choice. Hell, the idiots ad homineming him to no end are only making him more secure in the fact that the Codex is a loony bin.

drowned out by loudmouths like yourself who should spend less time bitching and more time making their own fucking games instead of telling others how to make theirs.

Thanks for grouping me in with the "hivemind" Mr. "Treat People the Way You Want to Be Treated". I don't disagree that some people here have lost their mind a bit in this thread, but you definitely pulling some serious double standards here.

 

[OccupatedVoid]

 

[MetalCraze]

where do you get those wh40k comics? they look pretty badass

 

[Foamhead]

Point out the straw men in the above please because I am oh so incapable of doing it...

I'd be delighted to shit head, since my clear explanation which used the smallest words I could think of wasn't dumbed down enough for you.

No I'm more refering to the fact you explicitly state you are in no way a fan of the Codex...and yet...you come back here...why?

I never said anything like this and have only once or twice pointed out some peoples repugnant behavior. You see I happen to believe in this thing called "basic human decency"

You are obviously taking this thread very very personally due to your cheap ass pirating ways and total lack of respect for the right of others to their opinions. You don't think people should lump pirates with murderers and rapist? (Which no one here said by the way, another straw-man on your part) Well guess what, too fucking bad. I don't know what oppressive post-communist shit hole you live in but in my country people have the right to believe whatever they want.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

'Repugnant'

 

[DefJam101]

Well guess what, too fucking bad. I don't know what oppressive post-communist shit hole you live in but in my country people have the right to believe whatever they want.

They also have a right to be criticized for that; in fact you probably deserve this if you use phrases like 'I believe x' and tell someone you don't know that they live in a post-communist shit hole.

 

[Xi]

I think a lot of people have missed the entire point of DRM. The best description of its existence comes from Valve who have labeled DRM, aka their Steam variant of DRM, as the cure to "Day Zero" piracy.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1016

RPS: How solid is Steam against the activities of villainous pirates?

Lombardi: It’s solid in what we call “day zero piracy”. We encourage people to preload, so we give the bits of a game away on Steam, but those pieces are useless until we supply the magical final parts that allow all those things to become game pieces, the same will be true of using Steamworks from a disc. All the art assets and game assets will be useless until a user authenticates them and gets the final pieces. What we’ve seen, and what many others have seen, is that piracy really frustrates in that period when you send the disc to the replicator and then the trucks take it from the warehouse to retail. What you find is that during that two week window some guy grabs a copy from the chain and uploads it. So few up to three weeks people can only find this game on the piracy sites. Gamers are generally good people and they pay for all kinds of stuff, but if piracy is the only place they can get it, temptation piles in. The pirates always are going to have some version of the game thrown together after the title is released, but it’s when good gamers get tempted away pre-release that we feel the really nasty piracy occurs. The year Half-Life 2 came out we had distributed all the bits via Steam, and then released both the retail shelf and digital game on the same day. What we saw that year was Doom 3, one of the GTA games and Halo 2 all coming out around the same time, and all getting “day zero” piracy. And there was nothing for Half-Life 2, those guys who might have been tempted weren’t tempted and sales were great.

So, for the DRM to actually prevent a functional pirated version for about a week or two, is the entire goal. These companies believe that most legitimate customers will purchase the product within this time frame. The goal was never to convert a pirate, someone who will never purchase, but instead to convert the people who may casually pirate the game, or pirate the game to get it faster. The DRM adds to the likeliness that people will purchase within the day zero(release window) and it is believed that this is the time frame to actually increase sales from DRM. There are numerous companies that remove DRM 6 months to a year down the road of release simply because they acknowledge that it is no longer affective. Blizzard being a great example via a patch.

DRM is just a fact of life because piracy exists. I think we can all agre that we hope to see less, and less obtrusive DRM in the future. Steam, and Impluse offer far superior solutions and even add extra service on top of the DRM/Authentication systems. I guess it's the 3 install thing that kind of sucks, but like a lot of flks have already said, if you run into this issue get a crack and continuing moving as by the time you actually run into this problem they will be available or an official patch will have removed the DRM anyway.

Love it or hate it, it's just a fact of life.

Edit: Oh yeah, and lets not forget about the Backlash from the Anti-DRM crowd when Half-life 2 was being released. Many people responded in the same way as the new ME Anti-DRM crowd is today. The result was null, however, as Half-Life 2 sold a bundle of copies practically proving that DRM does not, in fact, hurt the sale of a product and actually encourages it for the initial release. The people who say "I won't buy games with DRM" are a small minority, or at least, the piracy crowd will buckle when they want to play it bad enough and nothing is available.

If you don't believe me, go do a search on google for old forum posts about half life 2. You can practically find identical threads to this one written in 2004. Pretty funny actually.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

What country?

Argentina.

I spent a couple of years going back and forth between this little hole and a neighbouring one so the general situation may be a little better or worse right now, but 'they' tell me it is still spot on for a wide sector of the population.

It's a platform. What you build on it depends on what kind of person you are. There are people who should be shot and they'll do evil stuff under any system. There are people who have a huge capacity for good and they'll do good and care about other people under any system. Capitalism is neither good or evil in itself, but rules and laws (country-specific and thus society- and local culture- specific) can affect the direction of capitalism development and what it brings to society. I don't think it worked all that well in Russia and it can probably described as evil there, but the lack of laws governing capitalism is to blame.

You are right with that. Sorry.

Sometimes it is too easy to get the people mixed with the idea they use as an excuse.

So has Mass Effect been cracked or not? I'm hearing conflicting reports - that the cracks are fakeys/don't work.

Mass Effect is already cracked - That's a fact. There is a glitch on the Starmap, but a workaround and some xploits are already doing the rounds. A problem with the save system is already patched, they just told me (i do not know for certain but trust in the lady who passed the news to me).

Now, the amusing thing about this is that the true 'victims' of all this Drama are the guys who bought it and can't play it. Those guys do not know where the fucking north is, and they are expected to: find a crack that is not full of evil code, then know they must look out for the patches, then find patches that are not full of evil code, then know they must look for the exploits and workarounds, and then not get conned into downloading some shit full of evil code... And ALL that so they can play the game they paid full price for. Meanwhile the pirates just play the shit they downloaded last week while they wait and test things.

On the other side this shit is no "Oh, Bioware! You are so cool!" - Not a selling point to the DRM. This shit is quite usual - The same happened with Night Watch, for an example, but then nobody cared. The same happened with Darkstar One, for another example, and then little more than a week later there was an image patch that corrected the... Starmap Glitch! Bio is not even original in choosing what part of the game to boobytrap, for fuck's sake.

The only pirates 'going legit' are the newbies who haven't seen this kind of thing a thousand times already and do not know anyone who can explain to them how things works... And the kids who must have it NOW and actually have the money to go and buy it, so were being Jerks in trying to pirate it. The stupid thing is that after the go 'legit' there is still the chance they will need to go back to the cyber-seas for being able to play it - If they do not get one of the crazy bugs and have to wait for a patch all the same.

[Edit]

On the other side they go and win some extra sales because of the time won, yes... And they went and lost some extra sales because the rumors about the DRM, the bugfest, the people who will not install DRM in their machines, the online activation, the limited amount of activations, and the fact that if you have trouble with the DRM you can't just go download and download the crack the easy way. And then the DRM was not free.

So... the point was?

[Moar Edit]

@ Xi:

I said that i thought it was bad if even ONE legitimate customer couldn't use the product he paid for. I never said "Thousands of guys are having problem" - I said some are having problems and thus were, on principle, conned out of their money. For being on the side of clean cut, well defined morals you seem to have trouble understanding the concept of"Screwing one = Screwing a lot"

But maybe you are a politician and it's just natural.

[Even Moar Edit]

@ Xi:

I have no personal vendetta, nor i am making any more assumptions than you on that matter. I forwarded a point of view and asked a question. You answered by "Your point of view is WRONG because MINE is RIGHT." Hell, guy: You are getting a bit zealot-like on all this matter. If i had a personal vendetta i would be lashing against all that VD say, instead of just going my merry way and puting it as "Something to think about."

Now - You say HF2 sold well. HF2 has been pirated. So? Is piracy killing developers or not? In any case a good DRM would work both ways: Serious pirates get their game, not-so-serious pirates go and buy it. Just make a DRM that does not shaft any customers. Can we be friends now?

[Last edit, i promise]

Clarification: I do not doubt it will sell well. What i doubt is that it will sell that much better because of this DRM instead of because of it being a Bioware game, with good word-of-mouth because of the Xbox version, and all the... ummm... hype? More or less.

But let's just leave it at that - You have your point, i have mine, and both have not really much evidence to say A or B. I also have lost the push to go on and on and on with all this thing - I already got interesting answers and some good discussion to think about. This thread is surely time and soul consuming.

 

[Xi]

TRS, you're pretending that lots of legitimate purchasers are having issues with the DRM. This is not the case though. A few people are struggling with it because of their PC health/internet connections, but please stop pretending that ALL legitimate purchasers had LOTS of problems installing and running the product, this is not true. Please provide proof of such things because I cannot find anything that indicates mass problems to such an effect. Again, you're dreaming about a scenario that does not exist.

On the other side they go and win some extra sales because of the time won, yes... And they went and lost some extra sales because the rumors about the DRM, the bugfest, the people who will not install DRM in their machines, the online activation, the limited amount of activations, and the fact that if you have trouble with the DRM you can't just go download and download the crack the easy way. And then the DRM was not free.

So... the point was?

The point is that you're speaking bullshit. You have nothing, other than you're personal vendetta and delusions that DRM is bad and piracy must therefore be good. Like Half-Life 2, ME on the PC will sell good because of this DRM and it will have good word of mouth because of the console version. Much like HL1 promoted HL2 sales. So stop pretending, you are simply wrong on this one. Wait until they release sales figures, and you will not be so impressed with your current delusions on the matter.

Edit: Oh and to clarify, I do not really care for DRM either, and am somewhat miffed about the 3 activation scheme, but I have come to terms with the fact that piracy exists, and because it exists, publishers have to pull this kind of bullshit to ensure, at least, moderate sales of a product. Just because you do not like capitalism, and think that it is all just greed, does not mean that it is. It's just another system, one that is highly regarded as the most functional system in existence, that has been proven to work. The more money they make, the more they will spend on ME2, and future products. Again, I feel that your POV is just wrong. Along with your interpretation of Kant, but I will respect your perspective because we are all a product of our environments and upbringing and you could not help but think this way. The difference is that we are all empowered to view it differently after this conversation. That said, I have yet to be swayed to your side of the argument, and find it flawed in my own mind, while not wanting to go into detail on why. I merely don't have the stamina, and convincing one person isn't rewarding enough in my mind.


RE-Edit:

@ Xi:

I said that i thought it was bad if even ONE legitimate customer couldn't use the product he paid for. I never said "Thousands of guys are having problem" - I said some are having problems and thus were, on principle, conned out of their money. For being on the side of clean cut, well defined morals you seem to have trouble understanding the concept of"Screwing one = Screwing a lot"

But maybe you are a politician and it's just natural.

I've already said that preventing a single person any grief is impossible and therefore is a ridiculous goal. If the DRM was not there, people would complain about system requirements, and if system requirements were low, people would complain about how they meet the spec and the product still does not work. You need to leave you perfectionist idea at the door and realize that the reality is much different and far less stressful.

 

[pkt-zer0]

The point is that you're speaking bullshit. You have nothing, other than your personal vendetta and delusions that DRM is great and sales must therefore increase as its result.

Like Half-Life 2, ME on the PC will sell good because of this DRM

I guess the fact that Half-Life 1, without such DRM, vastly outsold Half-Life 2 can be conveniently ignored.

Bleh. Go go ass-raping paying customers!

 

[Xi]

The point is that you're speaking bullshit. You have nothing, other than your personal vendetta and delusions that DRM is great and sales must therefore increase as its result.

Like Half-Life 2, ME on the PC will sell good because of this DRM

I guess the fact that Half-Life 1, without such DRM, vastly outsold Half-Life 2 can be conveniently ignored.

Bleh. Go go ass-raping paying customers!

'
I forgot that half-life 2 had been out for 10 years, my bad. Stop using such stupid arguments. Diablo 2 sold 80 million copies and it had DRM, what's your point again?

Edit: Oh and Half-Life one had Product keys and CD-Checks, what is your point again? Hell even The Witcher has DRM and you said it didn't, or someone did, earlier in this thread. I'm tired of chasing the facts for you! Sheesh...

 

[MetalCraze]

Diablo 2 sold 80 million copies? but you're wrong. only 17. though yep - it's a minor difference.

 

[DefJam101]

Oh yeah, and lets not forget about the Backlash from the Anti-DRM crowd when Half-life 2 was being released. Many people responded in the same way as the new ME Anti-DRM crowd is today. The result was null, however, as Half-Life 2 sold a bundle of copies practically proving that DRM does not, in fact, hurt the sale of a product and actually encourages it for the initial release. The people who say "I won't buy games with DRM" are a small minority, or at least, the piracy crowd will buckle when they want to play it bad enough and nothing is available.

You're basically correct up until this; I don't ever remember HL2 DRM backlash. The only backlash I heard about it was that Steam sucked ass.


And by the way; Steam did suck ass back then. The bullshit about not being able to play a single player game while not connected to the internet, for instance. Now it's quite tolerable, in some cases it's a very nifty little program. I like it.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I'd be delighted too shit head, since my clear explanation which used the smallest words I could think of wasn't dumbed down enough for you.

So do it. And then take into account those were your posts where you basically put up a huge straw man argument labeling the Fallout fanbase/Codex as something they weren't.

I never said anything like this

Anyone with self respect and intelligent things to say decide quite rightly that the codex "acid test" isn't worth passing and go on their merry way. All you have left are cranky, arrogant elitist fuckknobs who never have anything new to talk about other then how super wonderful Ultima and Fallout were and the nonstop back and forth mental masturbation between users.

Seems a pretty negative opinion of the Codex exhibited by you. Still wondering why you bother coming here.

and have only once or twice pointed out some peoples repugnant behavior.

In between the time you drop generalizations about a bunch of people you don't know.

You see I happen to believe in this thing called "basic human decency"

Pretty selective about it, huh? You defend Mr. Gaider, but then turn around and call everyone on the Codex "elitist fuckknobs". You're not helping your case here.

You are obviously taking this thread very very personally

Nope. Around page2 I figured this was a joke thread and posted a joke response. Around page 10 I posted a wall o' text about why the moral argument either way was pointless. And around now I'm just arguing with a self-righteous relativist who feels the need to shove his opinions down other's throats, much to the opposite of what true relativism is all about. Plus, I'm not the one flinging ad hominems and insulting people, am I?

due to your cheap ass pirating ways

I think I'll echo some words back at you I say in one of your not-so-stellar responses to VD. Do you suffer from "I didn't read the post syndrome"? I pretty clearly pointed out I'm not a

and total lack of respect for the right of others to their opinions.

That seems your problem, and others...not mine.

Well guess what, too fucking bad.

Weren't you just talking about opinions being respected and people having a right to them before? Flip-flop much?

I don't know what oppressive post-communist shit hole you live in

Oh so I guess I can't think a country like that is nice. What if it's my opinion though? I thought you were all about human decency and rights to opinions?

but in my country people have the right to believe whatever they want.

Please don't be the type who perpetuates the stereotype.

 

[DefJam101]

On the other side they go and win some extra sales because of the time won, yes... And they went and lost some extra sales because the rumors about the DRM, the bugfest, the people who will not install DRM in their machines, the online activation, the limited amount of activations, and the fact that if you have trouble with the DRM you can't just go download and download the crack the easy way. And then the DRM was not free.

So... the point was?

The point is that you're speaking bullshit. You have nothing, other than you're personal vendetta and delusions that DRM is bad and piracy must therefore be good. Like Half-Life 2, ME on the PC will sell good because of this DRM and it will have good word of mouth because of the console version. Much like HL1 promoted HL2 sales. So stop pretending, you are simply wrong on this one. Wait until they release sales figures, and you will not be so impressed with your current delusions on the matter.

What? How is that bullshit?


He just said that the lost sales from DRM rumors, the bugfest, the people who will not install DRM on their machines, the online activation, and the limited amount of activations would counter the sales gained from having an un-cracked game at release. He never said it would sell bad, he said that a couple extra to no extra sales would be gained by including DRM, which screws over the occasional customer. Assuming this is true; it makes no real sense to include DRM.

Not to mention that this DRM was cracked a day or so after release. You aren't going to get any extra sales from that, anyways (according to the '2 weeks' theory). If the goal of DRM is to prevent the game from being pirated in the opening few weeks, then this DRM has failed horribly, and no extra sales will be gained. Why are you two talking about this?

 

[Xi]

What? How is that bullshit?

He just said that the lost sales from DRM rumors, the bugfest, the people who will not install DRM on their machines, the online activation, and the limited amount of activations would counter the sales gained from having an un-cracked game at release. He never said it would sell bad, he said that a couple extra to no extra sales would be gained by including DRM, which screws over the occasional customer. Assuming this is true; it makes no real sense to include DRM.

Like I was saying, this same backlash existed with HL2, and it still sold well despite such claims. Also, Valve has not abandoned Steam do to lack of sales. Maybe we can argue that sales would have been higher without steam, but that's seems a bit delusional to me. Valve explicitly believes that their method for DRM works fairly well and actually converts sales. They have good sales figures to prove this too.

Not to mention that this DRM was cracked a day or so after release. You aren't going to get any extra sales from that, anyways (according to the '2 weeks' theory). If the goal of DRM is to prevent the game from being pirated in the opening few weeks, then this DRM has failed horribly, and no extra sales will be gained. Why are you two talking about this?

Checking around local torrent sites, the DRM has still not been 100% defeated and the pirates are struggling to get it to work properly. So in a sense, it's still working as some of these people, the ones who really want to play it, will be converted into purchasers because they don't want to deal with how difficult it is to pirate.

Again, DRM has not been shown to lower sales, and in fact many titles that utilize DRM have sold well, including all of the best selling games of all time. Maybe those games didn't have this Elaborate online activation scheme, and I admit it is pretty intrusive when it comes to ME and the 10 day activation and 3 time install thing, but there are no signs that it will sell poorly do to its DRM. There is however, a grain of truth to the fact that it will sell better because of the DRM.

We cannot see the direct sales results for all of these games, if DRM caused a decline in sales, I doubt EA would be backing it so strongly. Fact is, they sell a lot of games and have been using this scheme for a while, they have statistics and information we cannot see. If DRM lowered piracy but also total sales, then I doubt they would be so apt to back it. Case in point, both trusted and untrusted publishers believe in the use of DRM. Some go further than others, but all utilize it. Whether you like it or not, they do seem to think there is a case for it. They have information that we do not. I think valve has been the only company that's been forthcoming about such information, but even they admit that it does make a difference if done right.

Maybe stardock is the exception, but they aren't pushing the same unit sales as these companies are, not even close.

 

[Foamhead]

I'd be delighted too shit head, since my clear explanation which used the smallest words I could think of wasn't dumbed down enough for you.

So do it. And then take into account those were your posts where you basically put up a huge straw man argument labeling the Fallout fanbase/Codex as something they weren't.

I never said anything like this

Anyone with self respect and intelligent things to say decide quite rightly that the codex "acid test" isn't worth passing and go on their merry way. All you have left are cranky, arrogant elitist fuckknobs who never have anything new to talk about other then how super wonderful Ultima and Fallout were and the nonstop back and forth mental masturbation between users.

Seems a pretty negative opinion of the Codex exhibited by you. Still wondering why you bother coming here.

and have only once or twice pointed out some peoples repugnant behavior.

In between the time you drop generalizations about a bunch of people you don't know.

You see I happen to believe in this thing called "basic human decency"

Pretty selective about it, huh? You defend Mr. Gaider, but then turn around and call everyone on the Codex "elitist fuckknobs". You're not helping your case here.

You are obviously taking this thread very very personally

Nope. Around page2 I figured this was a joke thread and posted a joke response. Around page 10 I posted a wall o' text about why the moral argument either way was pointless. And around now I'm just arguing with a self-righteous relativist who feels the need to shove his opinions down other's throats, much to the opposite of what true relativism is all about. Plus, I'm not the one flinging ad hominems and insulting people, am I?

due to your cheap ass pirating ways

I think I'll echo some words back at you I say in one of your not-so-stellar responses to VD. Do you suffer from "I didn't read the post syndrome"? I pretty clearly pointed out I'm not a

and total lack of respect for the right of others to their opinions.

That seems your problem, and others...not mine.

Well guess what, too fucking bad.

Weren't you just talking about opinions being respected and people having a right to them before? Flip-flop much?

I don't know what oppressive post-communist shit hole you live in

but in my country people have the right to believe whatever they want.

Please don't be the type who perpetuates the stereotype.

I do respect your right to your opinion and anyone else's no matter how stupid. You are obviously the kind of person who needs to extrapolate inaccurate meanings from peoples comments in order to keep arguing an indefensible point of view. You simply like arguing so i'm finished giving you your endorphin rush.

Oh so I guess I can't think a country like that is nice. What if it's my opinion though? I thought you were all about human decency and rights to opinions?

I'm sure there are lots of nice places and nice people in the many post communist shithole countries out there, they are still shitholes because of the lack of human right, lawlessness and endless poverty. I'm not much of a believer in cultural relativity, some places are better then others.