Vapourware Greed Monger Insider Thread (drama inside)

[EJoe]

James,
Can you post all your chats about the coding and modelling part?

I think you can move on...

You've clarified lots.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Like I said... I'd rather just put the past in the past and leave it there. Dragging all this stuff back up isn't going to help anyone. Bottom line... you guys haven't heard the last of MMOI... We are working on some stuff and will announce it once we are ready. Joel is sending me the remaining T-Shirts and I'll figure out the best thing to do with them... Being on a fixed income the way I am I don't have much money but I'll do my best to ensure they get into the hands of the backers... May take some time but it's the best I can do. It's an obligation we agreed to when we took over GM and unfortunately the torch falls to me to make sure that Obligation is met.

 

[Intrigued007]

So ... Another new project?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/project-city-life.355776/

With (mostly? all?) store bought assets. Again.

What happened to the Zombie Survival Game? Already gave that one up, huh?

 

[Jigawatt]

 

[Azrile]

So ... Another new project?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/project-city-life.355776/

With (mostly? all?) store bought assets. Again.

What happened to the Zombie Survival Game? Already gave that one up, huh?

He got lit up pretty fast in that thread. Did you catch the part where he had actually announced that game last year? And yeah, it looks like all of the screen shots are just a single asset from the asset store.

So this guy who has never completed a single game, in the past 12 months has now announced he will develop 3 MMORPGs along with another game or two just for good measure. ANd it looks like our very own DarkPenquin has signed up to be the new community manager... of a game that consists of nothing. James, what happened to Lumpyman...Is he single-handedly going to finance this game like he did GreedMonger? I think with all this excitement surrounding the launch of your new game, you and Lumpyman need to do another Google Hangout. PR man.... more PR!!!!

 

[Azrile]

from James ´We attempted to make the most out of a bad situation and we fell short. Future projects will be managed much differently... For starters you guys won't even know about them until we have something worth showing off...'

So he starts a thread for a ´new game´ that uses screenshots taken from a single asset from the asset store.... way to show off!!!! anyone with $10 can do the same thing.

And honestly.. reading those chat logs... it is hard not to laugh out loud when James talks about his ´business partner´ Joel Lumpyman. This is the same ´business partner´ who said that mailing out a dozen t-shirts was a financial hardship and he would have to do it over the course of a few months. Lumpyman is about as much of a businessman as James is a developer.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

He got lit up pretty fast in that thread. Did you catch the part where he had actually announced that game last year? And yeah, it looks like all of the screen shots are just a single asset from the asset store.

So this guy who has never completed a single game, in the past 12 months has now announced he will develop 3 MMORPGs along with another game or two just for good measure. ANd it looks like our very own DarkPenquin has signed up to be the new community manager... of a game that consists of nothing. James, what happened to Lumpyman...Is he single-handedly going to finance this game like he did GreedMonger? I think with all this excitement surrounding the launch of your new game, you and Lumpyman need to do another Google Hangout. PR man.... more PR!!!!

Ive been offering my advice and input to james and he asked if I would help out with the community (not exactly sure where you got 'community manager' from but okay- Had he asked for that specifically I would have said 'yes' anyhow- because james is my friend)

The advice ive offered is much as the same as what most everyone has been saying but in a less asshole-ish way. Dont put the cart before the horse and dont announce games or say anything in public until you have something to show.

I cant help with the community if there is no game and thus no community and another self inflicted internet crisis that was totally avoidable.

Its pointless discussing a game that does not exist and I knew the what the outcome would be if the internet learned about 'city life' and there was nothing concrete to show so my advice was to keep all of this away from the public realm- Make the game to the point it could stand on its own merits and speak for itself. With the attacks that were certain to come (and have come) once people learned about this- there is no defense beyond the same 'talking points' that have been the defense in the past .

I understand totally why everyone has jumped his shit here so I have nothing to say since I would be doing the same under different circumstances. I just know that he doesnt have ill intent and he really doesnt understand why everyone's jumping his shit and theres no reason to kick a guy when hes down.

I want to help james and see him follow through and succeed. Once he has a game finished I will do anything in my power to help it to grow, get the word out, help with the community- Whatever- but trying to defend something that doesnt exist after other non existing things have been 'promised' and 'defended' is a foolish and pointless endeavor. My advice to him now is to totally avoid the fucking internet and whats being said and work on the game. The only way people will believe anything thats said is to have something concrete to see for themselves. No amount of pretty,sugar coated, used car salesman,politician promises and words will do anything but make matter worse. words are words and the timewhen words worked here has long been passed.

This entire thing could have been avoided or postponed until there was something to show which would speak for itself.

So- All I can say is 'wait and see' and 'give him a chance to prove himself'- He either produces a game or he doesnt. if he produces a game it will stand or fall by its own merits- if he walks away from this one I think you wont hear much publicly from him again. hes not asking anyone for money and not using any GM assets or work that I amaware of. there will be no kickstart or crowdfunding either- So give him a chance to prove himself one way or the other.

 

[PoppinBy]

Reading that unity thread... Apparently there's ANOTHER person who talks to James privately and vehemently defends them... (claiming to know the big picture before revealing they have no clue (this isn't aimed at DP, I know he's got his facts straight))
Makes you wonder. Not sure what exactly, but wonder all the same.

if he walks away from this one I think you wont hear much publicly from him again

Stop me when I say I think I've heard that one before.

Anyway as someone in the unity thread pointed out, everything else aside were I in your position (that is to say both in private correspondence with James and giving a shit about his fortune) I would do my utmost to pressure him into working on a game that is far, far simpler than what he's been attempting over and over. Something single player for starters. Something that he can take from start to finish, look back on and admire the fact he completed a project, before moving onto a more complex but still quite simple thing, rinse repeat until he's put together something unique. Doesn't have to be anything special, but something that there was no tutorial for, something that required a decent amount of him solving problems by himself. Then something that's not all that far removed gameplay wise from a multiplayer game. Then at least one game that can be played by small groups of people before trying to move onto something as daunting as an MMO.

At his current rate he will never get anywhere because he will always bite off more than he can chew. Hell, that doesn't even touch upon it, it's more like he's trying to swallow a whole watermelon.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Reading that unity thread... Apparently there's ANOTHER person who talks to James privately and vehemently defends them... (claiming to know the big picture before revealing they have no clue (this isn't aimed at DP, I know he's got his facts straight))
Makes you wonder. Not sure what exactly, but wonder all the same.


Stop me when I say I think I've heard that one before.

Anyway as someone in the unity thread pointed out, everything else aside were I in your position (that is to say both in private correspondence with James and giving a shit about his fortune) I would do my utmost to pressure him into working on a game that is far, far simpler than what he's been attempting over and over. Something single player for starters. Something that he can take from start to finish, look back on and admire the fact he completed a project, before moving onto a more complex but still quite simple thing, rinse repeat until he's put together something unique. Doesn't have to be anything special, but something that there was no tutorial for, something that required a decent amount of him solving problems by himself. Then something that's not all that far removed gameplay wise from a multiplayer game. Then at least one game that can be played by small groups of people before trying to move onto something as daunting as an MMO.

At his current rate he will never get anywhere because he will always bite off more than he can chew. Hell, that doesn't even touch upon it, it's more like he's trying to swallow a whole watermelon.

Everything you said has been suggested.

Ive suggested mobile games.

Right now he needs redemption plain and simple and the more complex he gets with his ideas the more likely it is to fail .

Anyhow, you're right. People have been telling him these things- People who happen to be on his skype and are seen defending him are all being honest with him, people who are offering advice and Someone from here who is a Pro (not going to say who) came into our skype also and said pretty much the same things.

Advice is taken- or isnt.

I wouldnt be much of a friend if I was lying to him- I havnt lied to him. he does what he wants and we are still going to be friends , all i can do is offer advice and offer to help once there is a game finished (or nearly finished) at which point I will work my ass off for free and with not even want 'future blah..blah.." to help my friend. but the ball is in his court to actually make something FIRST.

Statements that sound like they come from a politician and "give 'us' another chance" means fuck all... At this point he has to produce ...

But yeah- wait and see is the only defense I have. i'm waiting with everyone else and giving my advice regardless of if its taken or not. he doesnt need all this stress and shit but he is his own worst enemy sometimes.

 

[PoppinBy]

Everything you said has been suggested.

My apologies for assuming they hadn't then. Guess it's a lost cause.

Hell, speaking from experience even mobile games are a pain in the butt to make, you've got all sorts of idiosyncrasies between devices and their software that you need to work around, not to mention trying to make a game that runs well despite the hardware limitations.
Our team spent last week scrambling to get all our games working on iOS9 after the pre-release of the final version killed the sound in them.
(Could have been worse, apparently many of our competitors games simply didn't work at all)

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Not much into Mobile Gaming... Don't even have a Mobile device to be able to test on... PC Gaming is where it's at IMO.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

My apologies for assuming they hadn't then. Guess it's a lost cause.

Hell, speaking from experience even mobile games are a pain in the butt to make, you've got all sorts of idiosyncrasies between devices and their software that you need to work around, not to mention trying to make a game that runs well despite the hardware limitations.
Our team spent last week scrambling to get all our games working on iOS9 after the pre-release of the final version killed the sound in them.
(Could have been worse, apparently many of our competitors games simply didn't work at all)

Thats funny you mention that about mobile games- thats exactly what someone else said when I brought it up lol- Shows that my advice can be shit but I'll still keep giving it . =P

 

[PoppinBy]

Thats funny you mention that about mobile games- thats exactly what someone else said when I brought it up lol- Shows that my advice can be shit but I'll still keep giving it . =P

Well, not quite. The mobile market is absolutely fantastic for budding game devs because they can make something comparatively simple and stick it in the app store for a couple of bucks. Unless it's really bad there'll no doubt be a bunch of people who try it out. If you can take it one step further and make something with a cash shop and trite pay to win content you seem to be able to rake it in.

Off the top of my head I can think of one example: Brave Frontier, a game with lacklustre storyline, gameplay and levelling/evo mechanics (hell, even the art for it could be more vibrant) yet through the combined powers of RNG and a cash shop it's become remarkably popular.

Whilst trying to make something that works consistently crossplatform can be challenging, it's not exactly necessary to do it if your game doesn't aim for grandeur. Certainly something with 2D graphics is a darn sight more achievable too.

 

[InnitBruv]

Thats funny you mention that about mobile games- thats exactly what someone else said when I brought it up lol- Shows that my advice can be shit but I'll still keep giving it . =P

Haha, here in my country we use to say that if advice were useful, they would not be free...

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Haha, here in my country we use to say that if advice were useful, they would not be free...

Not only is my advice free- But comes unsolicited (you dont even have to ask and it'll be given) lolz.

You get what you pay for. =D

What you say holds alot of truth however- In my case im not tech savvy and couldn't program 'hello world' to save my life. Thats a major part of the disconnect when I try to give any advice based on logic and business in a field I dont understand. I say I dont think something can be done - But who the fuck am I? Just a dumb pot smoking penguin giving free advice hahahahahahahahaha.

I'm not a programmer, not someone in the industry in any capacity- I'm a gamer with a little bit of business sense and understanding of how the world works (IMHO) but when it comes to the technicalities behind programming/game development James is a hell of a lot more knowledgeable of his capabilities and the tech than I am so I'm not going to argue a point of contention past just giving my suggestion. If he says i'm wrong about time/cost/ability I leave it alone. I state my opinion and thats about it.

I have no money or investment riding on any of this beyond the fact I want to see a friend succeed and I would be remiss in my duties as a friend if I didnt offer my opinion- Even if its wrong.

I think james has a good heart and alot of dreams and having those dreams makes him susceptible to taking reckless chances in his associations and business dealings. Ive seen this guy want to believe things so badly that logic becomes moot. People around james manipulate him for their own reasons and he falls for the shit because he wants to believe certain things.

The woman defending him on the unity forum and one other person (besides me) are really his friends and trying to keep things grounded- Even to the point of trying to get other people who are really part of the industry to give a wake up call- But big talk and promises win because james is a dreamer. The people he generally listens to are the ones who have agendas and are (in some cases) fucking scumbags. And when shit falls apart james is left holding the bag while the ones with all the big talk and promises slink back into the sewer.

James never promised to fund GM- Send the T-shirts or anything else beyond what he was told would happen. because he believed things that tilted towards his dream becoming a reality.

Ehhhhhh- hes gunna get pissed at me and I should stop.


theres alot people arent privy too- I know that doesnt mean shit to anyone but it is what it is. Alot of things thatll never be understood because sometimes the people really causing the problems are gone leaving james to deal with things. james has some issues and he doesnt need more but when you have (or can get) assets and shit that are worth money the worst motherfuckers will promise anything . james brings some of this on himself and he doesnt understand why people are pissed- But he really doesnt get it. This isnt a bad guy trying to scam- this is a dreamer whos been misled by many people with agendas for many reasons and lets it keep happening because the lights are prettier than the reality of things.

Anyhow...

I hope you guys will back off- But dont expect it and I understand everyone's point. Let him produce something or not. Kicking on the vulnerable even when they keep putting a 'kick me sign' on their own back is only fun for so long - let him produce something or fade away. This is deeper than the cold hard facts.

 

[Azrile]

DarkPenguin, I think you are a really nice person, very funny in that google chat and all that.. And in a way you seem very similar to that nice lady in the Unity thread that tried to defend James.

The problem is that you guys are enabling a pathological liar. The more ´morale boosters´ he finds every few months, the less likely he is to actually learn anything. His harshest critics and his most beloved ´morale boosters´ have been telling him the same thing for 3 years. Shut the fuck up until you have something to actually show. Yet he continues to make excuses for why something doesn´t work, then makes promises for the future, then takes a screenshot of something from Unity and declares ´ Just give me a chance I WILL complete it this time´. This has been 3+ year with this liar, and like always, every few months he finds someone new who steps in to defend him and boost his morale.

He has never created anything close to a playable game, and yet he has now announced 3 MMOPRGs and 6 games overall. You say you don´t understand game making, and that is cool... but what you need to learn is that everything he has been showing, everything that looks like he created is just stuff he ripped from other people. GreedMonger was nothing except a $60 kit from Unity called Atavism. City Life is one art pack from unity store. His zombie game was one art pack from the Unity store. His ´networking solution´ is from somebody else. He takes other people´s stuff and either does nothing at all, or makes minor minor changes and acts like it is now ´his´. He gets called out on this all the time.. Did you see the Atavism thread where he tried to claim he created a custom housing system.. ON THEIR OWN FORUM... and of course people said ´uh.. dude, that is what comes with Atavism´.

´let him produce something or fade away.´ See, here is what you don´t get. Those are two GREAT options.... but for the last 3 years, James has taken a third option ´Do nothing, but still create threads announcing a new game or progress´.

We are laughing our asses off over on MMORPG. Remember when he took over GM a few months ago, and he and lumpyman continually posted like they were martyrs and doing it ´for the community´.. and making this big sacrfice taking over a dying game?.... yeah.. come to find out the only reason they took it over is because they thought there was a payday coming from the owner of Atavism.. then Lumpyman, the guy who was going to self-fund GreedMonger, yet can´t even afford to mail out a dozen t-shirts...

pathological liars.

 

[Azrile]

Well, not quite. The mobile market is absolutely fantastic for budding game devs because they can make something comparatively simple and stick it in the app store for a couple of bucks. Unless it's really bad there'll no doubt be a bunch of people who try it out. If you can take it one step further and make something with a cash shop and trite pay to win content you seem to be able to rake it in.

For small developers without a huge marketing budget, it isn´t really that easy. I was watching a video interview with a guy who did a very popular suduko book type game that for a few days was the #1 downloaded game on the apple store. He makes less than $2k a month for it.

The problem is just that it really is too easy to make mobile games, which means people are making a ton of them and there is no way to stand out from the pack without spending marketing money. There are ´gamejams´ that groups have, where you have challenges, usually it is something like ´create a game based around Halloween in a week´. And there are dozens of people who can knock out a very fun game in that amount of time without any pre-planning. I have been in ones where we were making minecraft clones in a week. And with the app store it is even worse because as soon as your game ranks anywhere on the charts, people will clone it within a week. There are teams of developers who do nothing except clone other people´s games and can compete with them before the original game has any chance to be unique.

The way people are making a living with mobile games is being able to knock out 50ish games per year, and make a few hundred dollars from each one. Other than that, you are better off recycling aluminum cans and buying a lottery ticket.

 

[Tybost]

Greed Monger Back In Production - 1/8/2016 - http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/08/a...reed-monger-is-apparently-back-in-production/

Massively is reporting that Greed Monger's original lead programmer, James Proctor, has revived the Greed Monger site and announced that the game is back in development. According to a post on the forums, systems are in development for PvE encounters and a 'beta land rush'. The site itself is largely empty, though there are new forums for interested parties to check out.

 

[Delterius]

It never Ends.

 

[InnitBruv]

The food stamps must have come in and the company now has some capital to continue game development production.

 

[jcd]

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[InnitBruv]

You are not Mastermind

Damn thats a nice avatar :D
That is why I chose mine when I made the account, didnt even know that user lol...

Back to the topic though, anyone heard if they delivered the tshirts ?

 

[GM_JamesPro]

No, T-shirts haven't been sent out yet. I've put in a couple requests to Joel to send me the t-shirts so I can get them out. Still waiting for him to send them to me.

 

[SerratedBiz]

man i had some real fun searching for an appropriate gif for this thread

Spoiler

 

[InnitBruv]

No, T-shirts haven't been sent out yet. I've put in a couple requests to Joel to send me the t-shirts so I can get them out. Still waiting for him to send them to me.

Thanks for the clarification. But why Joel (who at that time swore to send them to everyone) and said he only needed to get the poly bags and was ready to ship... why did he not send them?

If it was for the lack of cash, then why on the google hangout he said he had funds to complete the game... but not funds to ship the tshirts which were the least you could do for the backers who lost so much money?

And one last word of advice James, both your name and past and future projects are tarred with fail, deceit and distrust that people will either mock you or never trust you again... so my advice is that you forget making any game whatsoever with your James Proctor handle/name, make a game in oblivion hidden away from everything/everyone/media and when it is ready and functional you come out and say: Hey guys, this is the game I promised to make and here it is.

That way you have a good chance of people believing you can make games and will show the naysayers that your persistence has paid off.

Otherwise the gaming community will sabotage any project you have and the negativism surrounding you, Jason and anything Greed Monger will not affect you emotionally thus making a self fulfilling prophecy of failure before you even have a chance.

I am not sure if this is the case, but since you got so many Greed Monger assets and things done you might have a feeling that you can carry on with it and finish it, but know it will be an uphill battle with many factors throwing stones at you while you try to climb this steep mountain.

Good luck in your efforts nevertheless.