KickStarter Grim Dawn

[Haba]

Anyways, new Grim Misadventures is up, introducing a new area for the expansion; Ugdenbog. Meh.

GEE WILLIKERS, ANOTHER SWAMP IS JUST WHAT THE GAME NEEDED!

OH BOY OH BOY!

 

[Grunker]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break though. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

 

[ArchAngel]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

No internet connection needed, it can truly be played as SSF. More user friendly for HC as space key pauses the game so you can do that and quit the game instead of log off like HC players in PoE do.

Combat is nicer to play as there is a physics engine and combat sounds are better. PoE is very sterile, after a while everything is just walking XP and possible currency drops.

 

[prodigydancer]

Grunker I have very little experience with PoE, so I can't directly compare it to GD. It's just too ugly for a graphics whore like me.

Don't expect anything from GD that you wouldn't expect from TQ 2.0 because in this case "spiritual successor" isn't just words. So if you hated TQ, chances are you'll very soon remember why. Other than that, it's a solid ARPG with a rather generous drop rate and fast leveling. If you like experimenting with builds, there's probably still some room for that (especially right now with new sets added in the last patch).

 

[ArchAngel]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

No internet connection needed, it can truly be played as SSF. More user friendly for HC as space key pauses the game so you can do that and quit the game instead of log off like HC players in PoE do.

Combat is nicer to play as there is a physics engine and combat sounds are better. PoE is very sterile, after a while everything is just walking XP and possible currency drops.

Also end game is not about mapping but doing multiple "uber labs". Multiple because there are multiple themed rogue dungeons, not just one like Uber Lab.

 

[Cyberarmy]

What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

If you like Path of Exile and Diablo kind of games that's all the reason you need to play Grim Dawn.

I was a die hard PoE fan but GD converted me with its no online needs, "hit feel" and better gear system. Only thing I miss from PoE is league system.

edit: Also I had much more fun playing GD.

 

[Emmanuel2]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break though. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

IMHO, none whatsoever apart from the offline, mods and graphics is just a matter of taste. PoE is better in every aspect, from earlygame (yes even the infamous super boring 8-11+ hour grind to Act 4 Merciless) up to endgame. Worse itemization, generic/boring skill where most builds will feel the same, the illusion of depth/variety when it comes to mix/matching masteries, etc. That's just me though but hey, it still got me playing for 200+ hours before running out of things to do. Even without finding a single exalt drop in my 1k+ hours of PoE, I'd still prefer grinding there as it's just faster and more visceral.

Though, the endgame isn't all that cracked up to be in terms of difficulty, even in hardcore, nor in variety but they do bring something new to the table. PoE and MedianXL has it much harder/better, heck, even TL2's synergies.

EDIT: If you want a great offline ARPG, go play Grim Dawn even if you hated TQ like me.

 

[Grunker]

Thanks for the inputs. Offline is of little note to me as I have a 200mb connection that has like one drop every 4 months. I like PoE's graphics though I do agree that their cohesive expression lacks somewhat which can make them feel a bit bland. Also the lore is complete and utter shit.

But I am and always will be a gameplay whore - I think I'd play shit in ASCII over PoE if it was good enough. So I'm mostly interested in how Grim Dawn plays and what its strengths are in that area. I do really like and appreciate good lore and atmosphere very much, but I see it as a bonus (or, in PoE's case, a necessary evil) rather than a reason to choose the game.

I did play Titan Quest briefly once and didn't like it, but I wasn't as much of an wARPG-fan back then as I am currently.

EDIT: The concept of "many uber labs" sounds really interesting, Lab is one of the things I enjoy the most in PoE.

 

[prodigydancer]

I'd say gameplay has improved since TQ. One of the frustrating things about TQ was incredibly dull Normal with no challenge at all - right until Dragonians in Act 3 who could easily one-shot you if you didn't have enough fire resistance. In GD Veteran difficulty is fairly hard everywhere with no major spikes (except some really optional bosses in Act 1). Elite is actually somewhat easier if you have a decent build.

 

[Emmanuel2]

But I am and always will be a gameplay whore - I think I'd play shit in ASCII over PoE if it was good enough. So I'm mostly interested in how Grim Dawn plays and what its strengths are in that area. I do really like and appreciate good lore and atmosphere very much, but I see it as a bonus (or, in PoE's case, a necessary evil) rather than a reason to choose the game.

Gameplay whores for life.

Grim Dawn has its strengths on:

* Easy/accessible character building with a clear cut end goal provided by the developers themselves through sets and the skill trees themselves. No experimentation/moderate theorycrafting needed to get a hang of the early endgame if you've played other ARPGs. This could either be good or bad, depending on your preferences.
* It has SOME choice and consequence in some of the quests despite being superficial/miniscule. Other ARPGs simply don't have them.
* Faction system
* Good/forgiving droprates
* An actual crafting system but not as good nor as indepth as in the D2Mod Eastern Sun's.
* An improved and much faster TQ, I really hated how "ragdoll" or how it feels like you're hitting giant slabs of stone with a wet noodle in TQ, Grim Dawn fixes that which is why I mentioned that if you hated TQ, you'd certainly get a much different reception despite being built upon the same engine.
* A wide variety of elements/damage types to choose from. We're not limited to the elements + poison and physical anymore.

As for lore, it's worse than in Path of Exile and I don't even like lore. Atmosphere isn't good as D1 nor in PoE, but it's still good regardless especially the first time around.

Lastly for the "Uber labs" part, it isn't like the lab in PoE. You won't have deadly traps, conditions, bosses with gimmicks, etc. It's just a straight up dungeon run (with a hilariously generic/uninspired boss at the end of each) that requires a consumable key where if you die while inside, you'd have to restart the entire thing.

 

[ArchAngel]

Thanks for the inputs. Offline is of little note to me as I have a 200mb connection that has like one drop every 4 months. I like PoE's graphics though I do agree that their cohesive expression lacks somewhat which can make them feel a bit bland. Also the lore is complete and utter shit.

But I am and always will be a gameplay whore - I think I'd play shit in ASCII over PoE if it was good enough. So I'm mostly interested in how Grim Dawn plays and what its strengths are in that area. I do really like and appreciate good lore and atmosphere very much, but I see it as a bonus (or, in PoE's case, a necessary evil) rather than a reason to choose the game.

I did play Titan Quest briefly once and didn't like it, but I wasn't as much of an wARPG-fan back then as I am currently.

EDIT: The concept of "many uber labs" sounds really interesting, Lab is one of the things I enjoy the most in PoE.

You might think offline means little but your internet speed is not what is a problem with online but delay. I doubt you have less than 30ms delay in PoE and in GD you have 0 and you can feel that when playing the game.
Gameplay is lot more visceral in GD with blood, bodies flying, sounds of hits done very well.
But is true what Emmanuel2 said about PoE (late game) being faster. GD does not have the clear speed meta of PoE, you don't zip through maps and clear them within minutes. It is closer to D2 where current PoE is closer to D3 in that aspect.
That also means GD is deadlier.

Itemization is cool in both games. PoE has some really cool unique items that enable builds (things like Mjolner or Cospris), but GD has active and passive skills/auras on a lot of gear (not just legendary items) and you can do all kinds of stuff with that.
Also I like that in GD you are not dependant on random chance or trading to get access to your basic active skills, you can preplan your characters and play SSF with 100% assurance you will have skill X and Y

 

[ArchAngel]

As for lore, it's worse than in Path of Exile and I don't even like lore. Atmosphere isn't good as D1 nor in PoE, but it's still good regardless especially the first time around.

Lastly for the "Uber labs" part, it isn't like the lab in PoE. You won't have deadly traps, conditions, bosses with gimmicks, etc. It's just a straight up dungeon run (with a hilariously generic/uninspired boss at the end of each) that requires a consumable key where if you die while inside, you'd have to restart the entire thing.

I think Lore in both games is pretty cool. PoE hides it better and by that I mean it does not tell you what is going on directly but you need to talk to everyone and read everything to get the whole picture (I even had to read some wiki entries for the full picture), GD main lore is mostly told through main characters with lots of little added stories told through letters and such. Both are OK as far as aRPG games go and both are not cinematic like D2 or D3 are.

Uber lab is different than PoE yes, it has no traps but fuck traps. Both are rogue like dungeons with no town portal and only one life and while GD "Labs" does not have triple boss fight it has cool death rooms and such.
Also GD has that survival mode end game.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Also this is one of the few games you get to use dual pistols and walk around in Warhammer inquisitor gear, burning and melting faces.

 

[Emmanuel2]

I think Lore in both games is pretty cool. PoE hides it better and by that I mean it does not tell you what is going on directly but you need to talk to everyone and read everything to get the whole picture (I even had to read some wiki entries for the full picture), GD main lore is mostly told through main characters with lots of little added stories told through letters and such. Both are OK as far as aRPG games go and both are not cinematic like D2 or D3 are.

Basically this. While PoE hides it through snippets via flavor text on items, quest information, NPC side dialogue, and just exploration ala Dark Souls, Grim Dawn does it in an "in your face" fashion where it shows you stuff after stuff just by questing excluding that one secret quest that basically requires journal entries. Both serve well within the established confines of their genre. You can ignore my opinion on Lore since I just "passively" read/notice them thereby "passively" evaluating them.

That also means GD is deadlier.

You have a ton of means + sources to reduce incoming damage and the developers made it sure that even newer ARPG players can do fine without actual research/no outside advice by actively tweaking masteries towards player comfortability.

It was deadlier around B29-B30/31 but I'm not too sure about the deadlier part now because of changes on general difficulty. Remember when Phantasmal Blades was broken? It could do Ultimate Log in 2 minutes without getting a ton of damage even when compared to pure tanks at that time and where the only thing that beats its Log kill speed is a squishy blademaster. It was also the first (and only) build to have gone through pre-nerf Ultimate in hardcore and that was an issue in and on itself.

 

[Sykar]

But I am and always will be a gameplay whore - I think I'd play shit in ASCII over PoE if it was good enough. So I'm mostly interested in how Grim Dawn plays and what its strengths are in that area. I do really like and appreciate good lore and atmosphere very much, but I see it as a bonus (or, in PoE's case, a necessary evil) rather than a reason to choose the game.

Gameplay whores for life.

Grim Dawn has its strengths on:

* Easy/accessible character building with a clear cut end goal provided by the developers themselves through sets and the skill trees themselves. No experimentation/moderate theorycrafting needed to get a hang of the early endgame if you've played other ARPGs. This could either be good or bad, depending on your preferences.
* It has SOME choice and consequence in some of the quests despite being superficial/miniscule. Other ARPGs simply don't have them.
* Faction system
* Good/forgiving droprates
* An actual crafting system but not as good nor as indepth as in the D2Mod Eastern Sun's.
* An improved and much faster TQ, I really hated how "ragdoll" or how it feels like you're hitting giant slabs of stone with a wet noodle in TQ, Grim Dawn fixes that which is why I mentioned that if you hated TQ, you'd certainly get a much different reception despite being built upon the same engine.
* A wide variety of elements/damage types to choose from. We're not limited to the elements + poison and physical anymore.

As for lore, it's worse than in Path of Exile and I don't even like lore. Atmosphere isn't good as D1 nor in PoE, but it's still good regardless especially the first time around.

Lastly for the "Uber labs" part, it isn't like the lab in PoE. You won't have deadly traps, conditions, bosses with gimmicks, etc. It's just a straight up dungeon run (with a hilariously generic/uninspired boss at the end of each) that requires a consumable key where if you die while inside, you'd have to restart the entire thing.

No Hack&Slash beats D1 in terms of sheer atmosphere. Not a single one of them which is why once a year I fire up my old D1+Hellfire and get my Sorcerer to level 35 +/- and just enjoy the good old feels.

 

[Hobo Elf]

One of the strengths of Grim Dawn is that pretty much all playstyles are available from the get go. What I mean is that if you want to make, for example, a thorns / revenge tank then you aren't at the mercy of unique items to make it work. There are plenty of low level drops that support this style as well as the useful Devotions. I mean, having good loot to twink your character with will obviously make it easier, but it's not mandatory. If that's what you want your first character to be then it's possible. Builds aren't walled behind specific loot drops.

 

[ArchAngel]

One of the strengths of Grim Dawn is that pretty much all playstyles are available from the get go. What I mean is that if you want to make, for example, a thorns / revenge tank then you aren't at the unique items to make it work. There are plenty of low level drops that support this style as well as the useful Devotions. I mean, having good loot to twink your character with will obviously make it easier, but it's not mandatory. If that's what you want your first character to be then it's possible. Builds aren't walled behind specific loot drops.

That is how D2 also worked and I loved that.

 

[rado907]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break though. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

Grim Dawn is less grindy and less competitive than PoE. So if you just want to maul monsters and don't want to spend untold hours trying to trade, pick GD over PoE. In GD, you can hit the XP cap and get decent (though not perfect) gear by just going through the entire content on all difficulties. And then roll another char.
If you are 100% hardcore and don't mind the trading game and serious grinding, then from what I understand PoE is the true successor to D2.

I must have sunk ~100 hours in each, and I don't think I'll go back to either. The grinding and the horrible trade system in PoE kill me. And GD got boring after two full playthroughs. Both are good games. Everything considered, I'm more impressed with PoE, it really pushed boundaries. While GD is more like Titan Quest redux.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I played PoE for ~30 hours and came away with the biggest 'meh' I could muster. The horrific grind of it is a killer; I'm not a child/uni student with endless reserves of time, anymore. By contrast, GD is thoroughly enjoyable start to finish and respects what time you do have to pour into it. But, obviously, opinions are like assholes.

 

[udm]

I'm still waiting for these fuckers to give me my physical goods (and they're not even replying to my emails)

 

[sser]

So, this isn't a troll post to incite a which-is-better-and-why discussion (nice lead-in there, Grunker), but can you guys highlight the main reasons for dedicating some time to Grim Dawn over PoE?

I've played PoE since release and in the current league (Hardcore Essence) I have a level 77 Shadow with 3 level 80+ rips left in my wake. I suspect I'll soon be ready for a break though. What are the main reasons I should spend it on Grim Dawn?

Do you own or have played Grim Dawn at all..?

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

No Hack&Slash beats D1 in terms of sheer atmosphere. Not a single one of them which is why once a year I fire up my old D1+Hellfire and get my Sorcerer to level 35 +/- and just enjoy the good old feels.

Indeed, I fired up D1 with HD mod not long ago and it still remains the best. I really hope they will release it on mobile with Battle net.
GD is better than Titan Quest so that's that. It really deserves every penny.

 

[Projas]

I haven't played this in like a year, do the monsters still scale to your level? That was like my number one problem with it.

 

[ArchAngel]

I haven't played this in like a year, do the monsters still scale to your level? That was like my number one problem with it.

Each maps has a certain level range, they only scale within that range. And you pretty fast outlevel these ranges.

 

[Projas]

I haven't played this in like a year, do the monsters still scale to your level? That was like my number one problem with it.

Each maps has a certain level range, they only scale within that range. And you pretty fast outlevel these ranges.

Alright, thanks, that doesn't actually sound that bad.