Grimoire Thread

[Tarrant]

Am I the only one who realizes rpgdude19 and Lady Error are the same person, and the former is literally only used to like her own posts/shit on people she disagrees with?

Seems a little sad to have an alternate for that reason. Or is that a thing here?

 

[aratuk]

[…]
Anyway, I look forward to that $100 refund.

You didn't get banned for saying the game was totally broken and totally unbalanced. You got banned for telling others on the forum I said that and correcting me when I posted to correct you. You could say what YOU want. Telling people what I said is full blown retard. You went full autism spectrum on me and you got ejected.

Felipe is likely to be one of your more sympathetic critics, Cleve. From what I've noticed, he's been tweeting mostly nice things about Grimoire as he's been playing it, although he is notably harsh about things he finds fault with. I'd venture that he completed the game despite its perceived unfinished state because he's a pretty deeply invested RPG player, what with his RPG history book project and all. A lot of people have fun playing beta versions of games, whether or not they're compiling a book.

If I were a developer in your shoes, I'd unban Felipe and let him repost his criticism, as much as it might hurt my feelings. Consider responding to him, point by point, and don't get too hung up on whether he misquoted you. In the long run it's constructive to engage with sincere, informed criticism.

 

[Latro]

It has enemies, like the Dark Fairies or those fucking ninjas, that can kill your entire party before you can even act.

Isn't that a Wizardry staple for late-game mobs?

Most bosses can be stunlocked forever with Charm, Paralysis, Flesh to Stone, etc

OK, then wait for Cleve to balance it or don't stun-lock them forever.

The ones that are immune to these will die with a single Critical Strike or by using items like the Vorpal Sword.

An explicit design goal for Grimoire is to reward the player with awesome, memorable items. Again, let Cleve balance it or don't use it.

Enemies attack your character on the upper left more than anyone else.

ok and? enemies mostly attack your front row, or attack most vulnerable member if possible (aka mage) in most turn based games. another genre staple.

Spells like Freezing Sphere deal over 1000 in AoE damage, which kills any enemy in the game.

ok, don't use it

Because XP rewards make no sense, you can't level up your party properly. Viata and I never got anyone to Lv 10 to do the class change.

now here's a real complaint, good job! Let Cleve go and re-balance the late game then, but this isn't really a major thing that stops the game from being unplayable.



Point is, an exploitable combat system is not BROKEN. If you really want to sell yourself as this RPG guru, you should watch your words. BROKEN makes me think the game is literally unplayable, or buggy road-blocks that never let players finish the game - of which, Cleve has made his express mission to stamp out within days of this 20-year old game being released.

I don't know about your standards, but if I have to choose carefully my weapons & spells to AVOID killing bosses in the first turn, then I'd say the combat is damn fucking broken.

Again, it's pure semantics. However, BROKEN = Unplayable in the context of a $40 videogame. Huge turn-off for people curious about a neanderthal and his magnum opus, don't you think?

 

[Great Deceiver]

felipepepe, some of that stuff you're complaining about was present in sacred cows such as Wiz 7, which was a big-budget game for its time with a significant debugging effort behind it. Some stuff could use more polish sure, and I'm sure Cleve is aware of it, but I for one think it's refreshing that a developer doesn't really put balance at the top of his priority list. It's a whimsical game made by one guy - seems you were expecting something that was designed by committee and that went through 5 proper balance patches.

 

[Covenant]

'Don't use X broken item' is a terrible defence of having broken items in the game in the first place.

There's a difference between expecting the player not to use the cheat code for God mode, and expecting them to have to assess every piece of cool gear they pick up and make the judgement of whether it's actually going to be ultimately detrimental to their experience because it's overpowered. Simply by their existence, badly balanced items/spells/whatever detract from the game.

 

[Nerevar]

Am I the only one who realizes rpgdude19 and Lady Error are the same person, and the former is literally only used to like her own posts/shit on people she disagrees with?

Seems a little sad to have an alternate for that reason. Or is that a thing here?

 

[Tarrant]

Am I the only one who realizes rpgdude19 and Lady Error are the same person, and the former is literally only used to like her own posts/shit on people she disagrees with?

Seems a little sad to have an alternate for that reason. Or is that a thing here?

I LOL'd.

But seriously, in this case, it really is the same person. Registration dates, zero posting history on the latter despite being a 5 year old account, perfect uniformity of support for the former account and denigration of others' posts.. I mean, I can't be the first person to point this out. Heh

 

[:Flash:]

Where in the IndieGoGo campaign were you assured a Steam key when you donated? If you believed this game was Early Access why did you play for over 100 hours? Something is not quite right there.

You are right, he wasn't assured a Steam key. He was assured a DRM free version, delivery 100% guaranteed in May 2013.


It's really funny to see how Cleve with his tough guy antics is in reality such a special snowflake. Even the Hipster mobile SJW game devs aren't such crybabies. Hey Cleve, perhaps you should go to the gym, your buddies can give you a group hug, if felipepepe has been mean to you again.

But I appreciate that Grimoire continues to deliver entertainment even after launch, and even to people who didn't buy it.

 

[felipepepe]

Huge turn-off for people curious about a neanderthal and his magnum opus, don't you think?

Do you realize that if Cleve had actually, you know, balanced these things - or released it as Early Access - then this whole discussion would be unnecessary?

felipepepe, some of that stuff you're complaining about was present in sacred cows such as Wiz 7, which was a big-budget game for its time with a significant debugging effort behind it. Some stuff could use more polish sure, and I'm sure Cleve is aware of it, but I for one think it's refreshing that a developer doesn't really put balance at the top of his priority list. It's a whimsical game made by one guy - seems you were expecting something that was designed by committee and that went through 5 proper balance patches.

What an absurd false equivalency... so we can only get AAA design-by-committee games or totally unbalanced games?

What about Knights of the Chalice? AoD? Underrail? Undertale? Tales of Maj'Eyal? Salt & Sactuary? Dwarf Run? Telepath Tactics? Stardew Valley? FFS, there's Avadon or the Jeff Vogel games... all these were released fully working and balanced - and in less than 20 years. Why the hell should Cleve get a free pass?

Not to mention that Grimore is the most expensive of them all.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Plenty of games I consider great could be cheesed.

Dark Sun & charm or dominate person
KoTC and wand crafting
Fallout and shooting for the eyes
...

Doesn't make them less awesome. I don't get it when people complain about these things in a single player RPG. Limit yourself and enjoy, or destroy utterly, and enjoy.

 

[Latro]

Do you realize that if Cleve had actually, you know, balanced these things - or released it as Early Access - then this whole discussion would be unnecessary?

show me a truly balanced crpg in any of the codex top 10 of all time lists

 

[Latro]

Look at the damage Joshua Sawyer has done to this community.

 

[felipepepe]

Do you realize that if Cleve had actually, you know, balanced these things - or released it as Early Access - then this whole discussion would be unnecessary?

show me a truly balanced crpg in any of the codex top 10 of all time lists

Show me one as broken as Grimoire. If you actually played it, that is.

 

[Rpguy]

Plenty of games I consider great could be cheesed.

Dark Sun & charm or dominate person
KoTC and wand crafting
Fallout and shooting for the eyes
...

Doesn't make them less awesome. I don't get it when people complain about these things in a single player RPG. Limit yourself and enjoy, or destroy utterly, and enjoy.

The problem is , in the other games you mentioned, you don't have to exploit and you'll have fun and do fine. In grimoire the combat is so broken later that you HAVE to exploit or die

 

[Lord Andre]

Do you realize that if Cleve had actually, you know, balanced these things - or released it as Early Access - then this whole discussion would be unnecessary?

show me a truly balanced crpg in any of the codex top 10 of all time lists

Show me one as broken as Grimoire. If you actually played it, that is.

Arcanum.

 

[valcik]

Show me one as broken as Grimoire. If you actually played it, that is.

Fallout 2, crashed a lot more and we've finished v1.0 dozen times before installing official patch. Granted this was before STEAM or the Early Access term existed, which leaves me wondering whether STEAM makes balls shrivel..

 

[Tigranes]

And so the wars have begun.

Do you realize that if Cleve had actually, you know, balanced these things - or released it as Early Access - then this whole discussion would be unnecessary?

show me a truly balanced crpg in any of the codex top 10 of all time lists

Show me one as broken as Grimoire. If you actually played it, that is.

Arcanum.

Now now, that's a cheat answer, you could say that about any game!

 

[felipepepe]

Arcanum.

That's the obvious answer, excellent. Now, here's the FIRST LINE of our review on the Top 70 list:

Arcanum is a vast, sprawling, buggy mess, with wonky combat, questionable mechanics and a sense of game balance that would make the Dark Souls developers commit seppuku.

So yeah, these games are fun DESPITE the glaring flaws, and I reserve my right to say the same about Grimoire, thank you very much.

Of course, we all know the difficulties Arcanum went through and how Troika went bankrupt. Maybe things would be different with Steam, releasing it on Early Access. Cleve, on the other hand, has no excuse.

 

[Lady_Error]

Show me one as broken as Grimoire.

Unbalanced combat =/= broken combat

 

[felipepepe]

Semantics.

You know what's undeniably false? 600hs of gameplay.

 

[Taxnomore]

I'm absolutely shocked at Cleve showing signs of retardation when dealing with human beings.

 

[Callisto]

* grabs popcorn *

 

[Tarrant]

Show me one as broken as Grimoire.

Unbalanced combat =/= broken combat

It's funny how suddenly only the dictionary definition of 'broken' applies when it comes to criticism of Grimoire, despite the fact that the colloquial definition among gamers has *long* been understood to be precisely what you claim it isn't: grossly imbalanced or otherwise not performing as intended, whether too powerful, too weak, too wonky, etc.

If mere semantics are the foundation of your argument, why even bother? Why waste everyone's time, including your own?

 

[Lady_Error]

Semantics.

Of course it's semantics, those two words mean different things.

You know what's undeniably false? 600hs of gameplay.

It depends on how you play the game. Also, here are the exact words from the store page:

"600 hours of play possible in a single game"

On onslaught and hardest difficulty, it's definitely possible.

 

[Lord Andre]

Arcanum.

That's the obvious answer, excellent. Now, here's the FIRST LINE of our review on the Top 70 list:

Arcanum is a vast, sprawling, buggy mess, with wonky combat, questionable mechanics and a sense of game balance that would make the Dark Souls developers commit seppuku.

Then I would say that's a shitty and cliche way to start "our" review of a game that's part of the Holy Trinity. Whoever wrote it learned to write by reading Gamasutra.

It's probably taken out of context though to prove your point.

For those curious, the other 2 games of the Holy Trinity are Fallout 1 and Planescape Torment.