Grimoire Thread

[Dorateen]

Not that I'm aware of. Starting at the shrine, I didn't have access to the mind read spell, and never brought up the subject with Rosy. Discovering Little Daisy was a complete surprise.

 

[unseeingeye]

Not that I'm aware of. Starting at the shrine, I didn't have access to the mind read spell, and never brought up the subject with Rosy. Discovering Little Daisy was a complete surprise.

Same, and I only knew about her sister from a previous play through. I suppose Mind Read if available is the only way.

 

[unseeingeye]

I've been reacclimating myself with the manual and information such as what spells are learned at what level by which classes, and what weapons and armor certain classes are restricted from using, that kind of thing. I am still hesitant on multiclassing though because I had only a rough idea at start of where I would like my characters to end up. Would anybody have any suggestions about which levels are ideal to begin changing classes for my party? For reference my party consists of a Human Warrior, a Saurian Berserker, a Wolfin Ranger, a Drow Assassin, a Barrower Cleric, a Human Thief, a Feyfolk Wizard, and an Aeorb Sage. For every character that had the option I put all of my bonus points at creation into attributes with the initial rolls for each being between 38 and 42 and so far my party levels are between 5 and 6, with each character having somewhere around 40 to 50 bonus points stored up other than the Drow Assassin who has about 16 points.

I don't think I want to do very many class changes and for some characters (the Saurian Berserker, or the Barrower Cleric) I may only change class once or not at all.

For the Wizard, I was thinking to change first to a Sage, then Thaumaturge, and end on Necromancer.

And for the Sage I was thinking to change to a Wizard, perhaps with Thaumaturge in between.

Is there an ideal level to makes the changes for these two casters? I studied the spell lists but I'm not familiar with which of the higher level spells are worth leveling up for before switching classes, so I am holding off for now.

I noticed the Cleric gets a Cure Paralysis at level 12, so I was thinking either to not ever change her class or if I were to do so then only after level 12, but the experience requirements at that point may prove to be a deterrent?

For the Thief I intend to change to a Bard, but I have no idea at which level I will do this. She has a decent amount of bonus points saved up at level 6 currently (I think around 48) so I know that a Jester will be out of my reach without other class changes of which I don't know if I could even manage were I to try changing into a Cleric, then a Templar, then a Bard before trying for Jester. But this would ultimately negate my purpose of having a Bard before very late in the game, so I don't know if it is worth trying or if I should just switch to Bard soon (maybe after level 7, or 8?). She is my Inspection and Lockpicking focused character, and my thinking was to change to Bard once I have at least Inspection fairly high and after changing to Bard then focus on Music. Currently my Sage can at least use instruments from the inventory though his Music skill is fairly low as I focused on Ancient History and Sorcery (since I plan on ending on Wizard and I think they share the same casting skill).

The Drow Assassin I was thinking to try changing to a Warrior for a few levels, then end on Pirate? But I also have been playing with the idea of switching her to a Hand to Hand expert and focusing on Lethal Blow, Ninjitsu, and Iron Hands? Currently she has a decent amount of points in Backstabbing, Bladesmanship and Lethal Blow, and she gets so many extra attacks that often land the killing blow or critical blows, and I started to put some points into Robbery, though I am feeling more attracted to the Hand to Hand idea unless that is a waste on a character that doesn't have powerful unarmed attacks? And if I change class after building her up as a Hand to Hand expert, will she even still be capable in this capacity?

As for my Human Warrior I am undecided whether or not I ought to change him to a Berserker for Lethal Blow or just leave him as a Warrior in order to retain the equipment access. Similarly with my Wolfin Ranger and Saurian Berserker, I created these three front line characters without multiclassing in mind, but if it is suggested to do so I would. My Warrior is using Swords, my Berserker is using Axes, and my Ranger is using Spears (with some points in Archery as well). If I were to never class change these three, but continue to focus on Lethal Blow for the latter two and their respective weapon skills, then unload all of their accumulated bonus points into Speed, Strength, Agility and Constitution, would they remain viable to the end?

I know I'm asking quite a lot here, but if anybody could advise me even generally on points such as the ideal levels to multiclass magic based characters, I would be sincerely grateful.

 

[Dorateen]

I know I'm asking quite a lot here, but if anybody could advise me even generally on points such as the ideal levels to multiclass magic based characters, I would be sincerely grateful.

I think level 8 is the magic number for class changes, in general. After that, the experience requirement to advance grows exponentially making further leveling very slow. The path from Wizard to Necromancer is the same one I took, and about level 8 is when the character made each change.

One thing that is important to remember is that the spellcasting skill can change between professions. While a wizard uses Sorcery, for example, a Necromancer uses the skill Necromacy, which governs the effectiveness of his magic. So you will need to start pumping points into the new skill accordingly.

I also switched our party's Thief to Bard, but that was late in the game. I realized having a high speed bard to act first and use crowd control instruments would be very valuable. Same with the Cleric, I kept him single class for most of the game, wanting to obtain those high level spells (like Cure Paralysis) and only switched to Templar near the end game.

 

[unseeingeye]

Thank you very much Dorateen!

I did know about the spellcasting skills being somewhat exclusive; so for the Wizard that I intend to end on Necromancer I've only put a very small amount of points into the Sorcery skill (just to make her not completely useless in the meantime) and the majority of my Mental category points have gone into Scribe, in anticipation to eventually building up the Necromancy skill once I make the switch.

The Sage however I have loaded up on Sorcery since I intend on switching him to a Wizard and I believe they share the same spellcasting skill? If I do end up deciding to put some in-between levels as a Thaumaturge I suppose he is going to be kind of useless for a while, but ultimately will be excellent as a Wizard. Since the Aeorb Sage seems to get such a boost to Mental skill points earned at each level up, I already have Ancient History at 100 and Sorcery at over 50, plus Scribing is I think 34, and he started off with several other Mental skills over 20, definitely Invocation and Incantation were and so were Barter, Assaying and Diplomacy! Of course he has like 1 or 2 points per level in Martial and Physical Skills but at least I was able to put a point into Swimming and Climbing. So far I've raised all of my characters to a minimum level 12 in Swimming, with several over 20.

Ok so if level 8 is the magic number then I'll stick with that; besides since I have a Sage going Wizard and a Wizard who will at least pass through Sage, I think that I will eventually gain access to some of the higher level spells for these classes. Like you I think I'll leave my Cleric alone until passing level 12, and then just before hitting level 13 (if its even possible?) I'll switch to Templar and end on this class. I've never used a Templar before but I assume they can wield the Hammer & Mace skill weapons? I hope so because that is where I've been dumping all of my Martial skill points!

This leaves me with only being uncertain about when to change my Thief to a Bard, and whether or not switching my Warrior to Berserker is worth gaining Lethal Blow in exchange for equipment limitations. My Warrior has been focusing exclusively on Swordsmanship, though before I found him a Longsword in a chest he gained a few levels in Axe & Scimitar because I took the Hand Axe from my Saurian Berserker and equipped it on him, considering the Saurian race has Hand to Hand dice rolls that are significantly higher than that of the Hand Axe. I bring this up because now I wonder - are there even any swords in the game that have the "Lethal" attribute? I've only seen it so far on Axes, Spears and Daggers; I have my Saurian Berserker now wielding an axe and my Wolfin Ranger a spear for this very reason, while putting points into Lethal Blow.

Which reminds me of one other question that I can't seem to resolve on my own; does Lethal Blow actually increase through use, or do I need to continue putting points into this skill? I've seen the "Critical Blow" remark appear in the combat log many times, each time killing the enemies immediately, yet I've never gotten an after-battle notification that this skill has gained a point, and all three of my characters with points in this skill (so the Saurian Berserker, the Wolfin Ranger and the Drow Assassin) show the same amount of points no matter how many times this happens until I put points into the skill myself. Does it just take many instances of landing it in order to acquire a point? Or maybe I'm mistaken and these "Critical Blows" are unrelated, maybe it will say "Lethal Blow" when the skill is triggered? I'm confused because everything I've ever read online about this skill indicated to me that it does go up naturally on use, and so far each of these characters have between 30 and 45 points in it all of which I put when levelling up. If the skill does go up through use then I don't want to be wasting points, so I'm hesitant to spend them now.

 

[Dorateen]

does Lethal Blow actually increase through use, or do I need to continue putting points into this skill?

Lethal Blow will go up through use, but very slowly. There might be a correlation between the higher the skill value, the more often you see the increase. I would definitely pump points into it on every level up, I think it's the most important skill in the game.

 

[Nightshade]

I got it couple of years ago - cost me less than a dollar. I managed to launch it once or twice, but I will probably leave this game brew in my GOG library for a while, because first I'd like to remember how it was to play games similar to it - like, I need to revisit Might and Magic titles. I wanted to buy some Wizardry games on GOG as well but they are too expensive...

I'm really glad a lot of people seem to be loving it, though. It feels like a passion project where a lot of heart was put into it, but I honestly don't know anything about the game's creator other than the fact he's kind of a lunatic, LOL.

I need to get into this classic grid RPG mood, recently I've been playing more of those newer titles and I am sick of restarting all the time.

 

[unseeingeye]

Lethal Blow will go up through use, but very slowly. There might be a correlation between the higher the skill value, the more often you see the increase. I would definitely pump points into it on every level up, I think it's the most important skill in the game.

And of course, a few hours after making that post asking about it, I saw Lethal Blow gain a point through use immediately following combat! So the only character who has had an increase is my Wolfin Ranger and his Lethal Blow level is 48. I don't know how many occurrences it takes for it to raise through use but I definitely saw a critical blow notice from that character many times before it finally triggered the single point raise.

I agree that it is the most important skill in the game! So I will definitely continue putting points into it for each of my three characters who currently have it available. The exception may be the Drow Assassin since I was considering raising the Iron Hands and Ninjitsu skills (and Hand to Hand but that can raise through use), with Robbery on the side. That is kind of a lot of important skills for points to be spread across, so maybe once I get Lethal Blow up to 60 or 70 I ought to start concentrating all of my points into those other two skills. I still don't know if it will end up being a stupid idea since the Drow don't get Hand to Hand bonuses like the beast races do, but I am very much wanting to take her in that direction at some point.

So far my party did everything I could find in Crowl including the Crusader Temple, Catacombs, the Crypt of Monks and then the Sacred Pools but I couldn't get beyond a gate down there so I moved on to the Gardens of the MidKnight. I cleared up the full map for the wilderness there and my last save was in the Spirit Caves, where I will continue exploring next time I'm able to play. I was replaying Wizardry 6 with the intention of importing a party into Wizardry 7 and finally finishing that game (still haven't after all these years, I always get pretty far into it then get caught up doing something else and by the time I go back inevitably feel the need to restart), but I'm putting that completely aside for now in order to fully focus on Grimoire. The last time I played and was determined to finish Grimoire ended up not happening because I'd restarted numerous times and finally made a party I was happy with, only to then realize how disastrously I'd been progressing and that I needed to study the multiclassing aspect more. This time around I feel much more confident in my party and am cautiously going to begin multiclassing once I approach level 8, as you suggested. The game is seriously awesome and every time I come back to it I become obsessed all over again.

 

[unseeingeye]

I got it couple of years ago - cost me less than a dollar. I managed to launch it once or twice, but I will probably leave this game brew in my GOG library for a while, because first I'd like to remember how it was to play games similar to it - like, I need to revisit Might and Magic titles. I wanted to buy some Wizardry games on GOG as well but they are too expensive...

I'm really glad a lot of people seem to be loving it, though. It feels like a passion project where a lot of heart was put into it, but I honestly don't know anything about the game's creator other than the fact he's kind of a lunatic, LOL.

I need to get into this classic grid RPG mood, recently I've been playing more of those newer titles and I am sick of restarting all the time.

It is definitely worth the attention it demands, and has been as enjoyable to me as Wizardry 7 has, something I never thought I'd be able to say about another game.

I like many different kinds of CRPGs but Wizardry 7 is for me the overall best experience I've ever had, and for another game to deliver the same kind of addictive combat and party leveling mechanics, the same open exploration of a surreal, dreamlike wonderland, it is a precious and rare thing to cherish. Moving through Crowl or the Spirit Caves reminds me very much of the melancholic atmosphere imbued within the environs of Wizardry 7, the mostly deserted streets and empty buildings of what was apparently once a thriving community established by a high civilization, and the strange Gigersque caverns haunted by undead creatures is very reminiscent of the horrors waiting below ground in the former game.

The YouTuber Michael Snow has a video essay on Wizardry 7 that accurately describes the impressions that game have made on me and I assume many others; he describes the actual gameplay as a kind of "archaeological" mode wherein rather than have the player follow a clear narrative the player instead begins totally lost and clueless about what to do and has to explore the world to uncover its history, only having the actual point of the games narrative slowly make itself apparent, but meanwhile the experience of discovery is itself the actual fun. He compares it to the way the Demons and Dark Souls games are explored and I fully agree with this comparison. Grimoire has music going fairly consistently (and it is wonderful!), and is very brightly colored, where Wizardry 7 colors are relatively muted and it is remarkably silent with gusts of wind the only regular sound (that for me helps to elaborate the flowing of my own imaginative recreation of what is only suggested on screen), yet Grimoire still manages to relay very much the same brilliant kind of atmosphere and I really can't say enough good things about it.

No matter how much time seems to go by, I always find myself going back to replay games that have always been masterpieces, the Gold Box games, the Wizardry series, Daggerfall, Might and Magic series, Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate 1, etc. It is ultra rare that a game comes out for many years now that just completely absorbs my attention, and so far a game like Grimoire to have come along during the past decade is unbelievably fortunate. I know there are a few games that are kind of similar that are being made, like The Darkness Below and Mystic Land, and I really enjoy the recent game Islands of the Caliph, it really brings me joy to know that there are capable people out there who care enough about the experience such games offer to go about making new ones.

 

[v1c70r14]

 

[Butter]

Every good games slips at least one deadline.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

"Available: April/May", but cleverly neglected to specify the year.

 

[Yugomorph]

David Wildgoose

Cuck

 

[Taluntain]

Good to see that Cleve's prediction about that Baldur's Gate vapourware going nowhere turned out to be spot on.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Good to see that Cleve's prediction about that Baldur's Gate vapourware going nowhere turned out to be spot on.

I mean, the latest installment went back to its turn based roots.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Good to see that Cleve's prediction about that Baldur's Gate vapourware going nowhere turned out to be spot on.

I mean, the latest installment went back to its turn based roots.

Yeah but it uses meme 3D engine instead of a much superior step engine.

 

[Vormulak]

Good to see that Cleve's prediction about that Baldur's Gate vapourware going nowhere turned out to be spot on.

I mean, the latest installment went back to its turn based roots.

With the garbage ass 5th edition ruleset and unbelievably easy fights.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Wizardry IV mistreats the player. Grimoire is somewhat daunting, but generally pretty fair and easygoing. There is a slightly bullshit enemy that one-shots you if it penetrates your armor. The game doesn't tell you, but you can stack the Armorplate buff to make those attacks almost never land.

I left things like that in there, particularly stacking, so even newbs would realize there were exploits in the game that could make the combats fairly easy. I got the Nuclear Pineapple in Wiz 7 at the start as soon as I could after I read about it in a FAQ file on a BBS and thoroughly enjoyed the game after using it again and again on tough opponents.

If a game is cleverly engineered to have no exploits or the equivalent of cheat codes hidden in it, that game sucks. Good blobbers have exploits.

 

[Cael]

Wizardry IV mistreats the player. Grimoire is somewhat daunting, but generally pretty fair and easygoing. There is a slightly bullshit enemy that one-shots you if it penetrates your armor. The game doesn't tell you, but you can stack the Armorplate buff to make those attacks almost never land.

I left things like that in there, particularly stacking, so even newbs would realize there were exploits in the game that could make the combats fairly easy. I got the Nuclear Pineapple in Wiz 7 at the start as soon as I could after I read about it in a FAQ file on a BBS and thoroughly enjoyed the game after using it again and again on tough opponents.

If a game is cleverly engineered to have no exploits or the equivalent of cheat codes hidden in it, that game sucks. Good blobbers have exploits.

Figuring out the "exploits" in a game without resorting to the interwebs is 60% of the fun.

I mean, did anyone know the settler exploit in the original Civilization?

 

[Dorateen]

Does anyone else find it amazing that it's been seven years since the release of Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar.

The earth shook and tyrants trembled that early August morning, when the Golden Baby dawned over the landscape of digital storefronts. And the world was never the same.

 

[Abu Antar]

In seven years, maybe we will get a screenshot of the sequel.

 

[Caim]

Does anyone else find it amazing that it's been seven years since the release of Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar.

The earth shook and tyrants trembled that early August morning, when the Golden Baby dawned over the landscape of digital storefronts. And the world was never the same.

"The game became flesh and made its dwelling among out Steam libraries. We have seen its lgory, the glory of the one and only Grimoire, who came from Cleve, full of grace and truth."
- John Carmack 1:14