Guilty Gear Strive - ArcSys fighting game

[Latro]

If I have to put Axl anywhere, it would be mid. Loses cleanly to Chipp and disadvantage matchups vs a competent Ram, Gio, and Nago.

on the flip side he can definitely make Sol work for it (and zato if/when he is top tier)

system mechanics are basically anti zoner:

- meterless air blocking, so even if axl AAs you blocking you still stack bar for RRC and dash RCs

- dash blue RCs allow you to score huge whiff punishes. If axl f.S’s you can 66brc
for a c.s ch combo. In turn Axl has to pick wisely between combo extensions or his own dash RCs to escape punishes.

- small stage, less room to breathe
(probably why they made ressen cover full screen this time)

competent axl players will take advantage of j.s simply because he doesn’t need to worry about 66brc as much

 

[RoBoBOBR]

couple of mods:
https://gamebanana.com/mods/297353 combo counters stays the same size
https://gamebanana.com/mods/297288 removes big ass COUNTER message

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

God, Ky is shit rofl.

I'm just being a little BABY because I am so close to ascension but the ALGORITHM has decided to throw, and I shit you not, 4 Ramms my way. All different players and all resulted in me watching the bitch cuddle with a puppy.

I resume my duty from Floor 9 Hopeful back to Floor 7 terror.

 

[Latro]

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

May and Sol carry people at least 3 floors above where they should be. Can't sway me otherwise. Those two are private elevators.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'm going to say it:

Ky is worse than Faust.

At least Faust has the element of surprise to steal wins off characters he probably shouldn't. Ky is just bad because he does nothing that stands out or makes you want to choose him over anyone else.

A character that needs meter to do anything to get results other characters can easily attain with far less effort. Dragon Install is shit, bring back Greed Sever.

 

[Latro]

Ky is fine. No frills footsie character. Best Kys I fight actually zone with both grounded and aerial fireball, and I can attest (since I play axl) that his normals are super powerful. Once Sol and Ram eat nerfs he’ll be a comfortable B+ character (or A when they buff him)

Ky will easily bully you into corner and then spend PRC meter doing that overhead spark move to get you to slip up (might even be 50/50 not sure). Only other characters I have to respect at Ky range are Sol and Ram (who are busted)

Ride the lightning also gives him easy nearly half life confirms on both ground and air, so that’s fairly scary if he knows how to confirm (and wall break essentially gives him another half bar immediately!)

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Ky's fireball recovery is pure balls in this game. He can't sit there trying to zone when a majority of the cast can easily exploit his recovery and get in for free. His neutral buttons are always on the verge of "okay" but the real flaw is even off CH the chances of getting a good punish is low because 214S has t-rex arms hitbox and 236K is only ever worth doing if you can RC it when the second hit takes a vacation.

He doesn't have any true mix, getting into a corner vs. Ky is one of the least scary things in this game because all he can do is try to throw when you learn crouch blocking negates a majority of his offense. The only time he starts to feel like a character is if you have meter to RC but again it's a hollow point when everyone else can just blow people up with meter vs. Ky having a chance to do something with meter.

The shock gimmick is pretty underwhelming too and barely feels like it makes much of a difference, DI is a cruel joke to saddle to an already weak character, and I have no idea why he's in this game outside of the Ryu/Ken dynamic Sol/Ky have.

236K needs actual consistency when you CH, the second hit being ambiguous makes this move suicidal in Strive. At least let it hard knockdown so you can 236HS and get him going like in other GGs. 214K needs to be a true overhead so there's some sort of fear for the opponent that loves to crouch block, maybe lessen his fireball recovery, have 214S hit confirm better.

His damage isn't bad, but getting to pull off his damage is a fucking journey to Mt. Doom and much of it feels like a combination of overwhelming top tier characters and shoddy shit to the character himself just mentioned.

Why play Ky when you can:

Play Sol or Giovanna for autopilot damage at no effort.
Play Ram or Nago to hit people from across the ocean.
Play May to never worry about having to respect anything.
Play Millia for superior setplay.
Play Zato for better mix and corner rape.
Play Faust to feel better about losing when you inevitably get kicked out of Heaven.

 

[Latro]

- Sol is busted but once he gets nerfed will have his traditional difficulty of trying to get in on people
- Gio is overly reliant on dash throw and relies on conditioning to break people open, even harder to get in on people from midrange
- Nago has to actually worry about meter management and a teleport bite is obvious when he’s close to burst
- Ram is busted, see Sol
- May is busted
- Millia is an air dash set play character
- Zato has zero defensive options and has to rely on Eddie to pin people down

So wait and see. Sure Ky is worse than Sol but so is the rest of the cast.

“He doesn't have any true mix, getting into a corner vs. Ky is one of the least scary things in this game” no, he can pressure Axl in the corner pretty hard and has superior counter poking. Ky never had any real mixup, although I’m saying this as someone who has been blocking greed sever spam for years.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Honestly, I don't find Millia (or Zato) too retarded like the others but Millia playing like Millia still is more to prove my idea that they half-baked Ky in this game because he feels significantly worse than in +R and Rev 2. Feels like they gave him no real compensation for glaring shortcomings and Foudre Arc is a straight downgrade from Greed Sever. Same character assassination happened to Faust, imo.

I can't speak much for Axl vs. Ky because I've only faced like 4 Axls that knew what they were actually doing and it was as Faust and a trial run as Potemkin so you can imagine how fun that was for me.

 

[Nathir]

Well, I finally got to celestial floor. Not that it matters much as it's all about luck and which opponents you get. E.g. Yesterday I got offered the promotion. I get put up against a lvl 8xx Ram who completely destroys me 2 games in a row. Today I got matched against a lvl 5xx Zato and I somehow managed to go 2-1 vs him. Then I got a Ky who was also playing for promotion and went 2-0, ending Ky's run. And I went 1-0 against an Axl who also had the promotion matches. Basically, I'm trying to say it's way easier if you get matched with people who are essentially floor 10 participants. Oh well. Now I can get destroyed by the 700-1000 lvl VIPs.

Some random thoughts about the game. Damage is way to high. It's really easy to do 60% of damage in one combo. Like zero skill required. Then all you need is catch them off guard with a super or throw to finish it. I know they consciously made it so, but I think it should be atleast slightly lower. Sol going HS into shoryuken should not do 40% of my life bar.

Throws are insanely good in this game. They were always good, but were a more defensive option. Now they are incredibly good on offense aswell. Because you don't need to FD cancel your dash to throw anyone can go for throws super fast and super easy. The whiff animation is easily punishable. This creates a mindgame that is more reminiscent of SFV then any past Guilty gear. Now I liked SF5 well enough, but I always felt like I have to guess in that game. Strive similarly also feels a lot more guess heavy then previous GG games while on defense.

Some moves are just dumb. Like Sol's bandit bringer is + on block for some reason. May is + if she whiffs dolphin. I jump up and get counter hit trying to counter. While something like Zato's crouching slash can be punished with a jump in. Sol's DP recovers incredibly fast. If you are not right next to him, forget about punishing him. But no other DP recover as fast. Giovanna is + on (almost) anything. There are many more examples of things that seem completely arbitrary and make no sense. Frame data seems to be way more important then in previous games. Especially since FD pushes the opponent back for a very short distance and drains your meter super fast.

 

[RoBoBOBR]

Sol's bandit bringer is + on block for some reason

It isn't though. Regular one is -2, air version can be plus but only if it connects at like knee height (and that is the way dive kick type moves always are -- you connect them low enough and they are slightly plus).

May is + if she whiffs dolphin.

You are being silly here. Nothing is plus on whiff. Here S Dolphin is fast, so don't try countering it (especially from jump). It's -5, so you get your turn when you block it. HS Dolphin is way slower on startup and that's the one you should hit her out of, i recommend a fast attack for that, like Ky's 5K or Sol's 2K.

Sol's DP recovers incredibly fast. If you are not right next to him, forget about punishing him.

His S DP was always quite fast on recovery, but it is still -22 on block, and any attack triggers a counterhit. You just got to be ready to punish it. Strive also made DPs throwable from the start, and strike invincibility runs out quicker -- so it can lose even to an air attack sometimes.

Giovanna is + on (almost) anything.

Gio has one normal attack with a plus (close Slash) that should be respected but she needs to be in your face for that, and two specials (spiral arrow type kick, and hop kick) which can be beaten by a well timed 6P.

 

[Latro]

They were always good, but were a more defensive option. Now they are incredibly good on offense aswell. Because you don't need to FD cancel your dash to throw anyone can go for throws super fast and super easy.

tick throws and regular dash throws were always a big part of GG, see axl's tick throw game (big part of the character and his meterless throw combos, ky's vicious corner game)

Damage is way to high. It's really easy to do 60% of damage in one combo. Like zero skill required.

so you would be ok with the big damage if it required a 1f link or a FRC? in actuality that just cuts down the number of times you eat big damage when you should have :D. they simply wanted to level the execution field between the intermediate and advanced players. I can hop on plus R right now and the majority of people are doing super basic gatling mashing, the actual veterans do conversions that do 35%-50%

This creates a mindgame that is more reminiscent of SFV then any past Guilty gear.

not quite, one can still lay on pressure with endless blockstrings with intentional frametraps, counterpokes, and reactionary airthrows to keep them in the corner. not to mention jump cancels off of certain normals, to lay the pressure on. part of what makes Ram so good is that she can absolutely keep you locked down in the corner until she decides to dash throw or tick throw (which isn't very different from classic GG). i've played very good Sols and Kys who have more or less demonstrated that their corner game is still really strong (especially if they actually know how to RC appropriately, ky has fuzzy 50/50's off a jump cancelled c.S) and has not changed that much (plus R sol's gameplan isn't drastically different from GGST)

 

[Nathir]

Sol's bandit bringer is + on block for some reason

It isn't though. Regular one is -2, air version can be plus but only if it connects at like knee height (and that is the way dive kick type moves always are -- you connect them low enough and they are slightly plus).

May is + if she whiffs dolphin.

You are being silly here. Nothing is plus on whiff. Here S Dolphin is fast, so don't try countering it (especially from jump). It's -5, so you get your turn when you block it. HS Dolphin is way slower on startup and that's the one you should hit her out of, i recommend a fast attack for that, like Ky's 5K or Sol's 2K.

Sol's DP recovers incredibly fast. If you are not right next to him, forget about punishing him.

His S DP was always quite fast on recovery, but it is still -22 on block, and any attack triggers a counterhit. You just got to be ready to punish it. Strive also made DPs throwable from the start, and strike invincibility runs out quicker -- so it can lose even to an air attack sometimes.

Giovanna is + on (almost) anything.

Gio has one normal attack with a plus (close Slash) that should be respected but she needs to be in your face for that, and two specials (spiral arrow type kick, and hop kick) which can be beaten by a well timed 6P.

Ok, I forgot to say I have no idea about actual frame data and never looked that stuff up. I just wanted to say it seems really important to know such things for this game. Some moves just seem to do too much for how easy they are to use. And the examples I gave were basically what I remembered that looked punishable but wasnt, or things that moved the character too much for almost no risk. Terrible wording by me, I know. Just makes it look like the game is very pre-planned if that makes sense? Where in the past it was a lot more freeform.

 

[Latro]

it looked freeform because of the RC system (which looks instantaneous) not many specials were + oB. you can look at dustloop and compare framedata, usually 2k and 5p are plus and the occasional 5h/6h pressure reset move.

 

[Nathir]

They were always good, but were a more defensive option. Now they are incredibly good on offense aswell. Because you don't need to FD cancel your dash to throw anyone can go for throws super fast and super easy.

tick throws and regular dash throws were always a big part of GG, see axl's tick throw game (big part of the character and his meterless throw combos, ky's vicious corner game)

I know that, and never said otherwise.

Damage is way to high. It's really easy to do 60% of damage in one combo. Like zero skill required.

so you would be ok with the big damage if it required a 1f link or a FRC? in actuality that just cuts down the number of times you eat big damage when you should have :D. they simply wanted to level the execution field between the intermediate and advanced players. I can hop on plus R right now and the majority of people are doing super basic gatling mashing, the actual veterans do conversions that do 35%-50%

Well it would be better then what we have now for sure. Like it or not , execution was always a big part of fighting games. I know they want to level the execution field, I just don't agree with the damage you get for how little effort you need to put into it. Makes rounds more of a coin toss. Again, Sol HS into DP doing 40% is plain bad design. Anyone can do 3 hits into wall break/and or RC = 50% hp gone. I'm watching pros play the game and except for something like Millia (maybe, didn't actually play her) all the combos are super easy. It removes all the hype. I can watch Toruso Eddie in +R and he does shit I know I will never do. Now I watch Ogawa on youtube and he is doing the same stuff as everyone else, including me. Ok, he does squeeze out an extra hit here or there, but it only matters at the top level. It basically makes it so all the hype moments boil down to "oh he reacted to that". Also your 35-50% number meant you were playing a high damage character or got your best starter. Zato for example in +R does not get that much damage from an average combo. Unless you start looping shadow galleries, which requires setup and is way more execution heavy then simpler combos. Risk/reward. Higher execution requirements reward higher damage. Now my biggest conversion comes from the second frog hit, which puts the enemy into sliding state. And it requires zero effort to combo after it. GG never had 1f links anyway I think. Iirc Slayer had some 2f links but that was it.

This creates a mindgame that is more reminiscent of SFV then any past Guilty gear.

not quite, one can still lay on pressure with endless blockstrings with intentional frametraps, counterpokes, and reactionary airthrows to keep them in the corner. not to mention jump cancels off of certain normals, to lay the pressure on. part of what makes Ram so good is that she can absolutely keep you locked down in the corner until she decides to dash throw or tick throw (which isn't very different from classic GG). i've played very good Sols and Kys who have more or less demonstrated that their corner game is still really strong (especially if they actually know how to RC appropriately, ky has fuzzy 50/50's off a jump cancelled c.S) and has not changed that much (plus R sol's gameplan isn't drastically different from GGST)

Oh I know that. The problem is that everyone is super easy to block. The reason Ky needed to rely on tick throws in +R is because he had no way of opening people up. You could block him forever. But he was really good at making you block, because of his frametraps and good normals. Now this is basically every character (except for Millia and I-No from my experience). Also in the past games for most characters you didn't actually get that much out of a throw. Now? If I'm in the corner I can do throw into RC into wall break for 50%. It's hillarious really.

 

[Latro]

Again, Sol HS into DP doing 40% is plain bad design. Anyone can do 3 hits into wall break/and or RC = 50% hp gone.

Coming from other videogames big punish combos doing that much isn't crazy. Gio perfected me 11-13 seconds in (!!!) and it was about as long as a third strike round where they eat a low confirm or a jump in. If you compare Strive to the other GGs you will not like it because they have started from scratch breaking conventions, but if you have experience from other games you can see the change in design philosophy into something very coherent.

Higher execution requirements reward higher damage.

Which means the pool of competitive of players is substantially lower because even Strive with it's lower combos still requires more labbing to really get everything out of the character. SF does not require you to take advantage of all the options you have in the corner to break them open, airdashing, jump cancelling, or the RC system.

re: zato. honestly it's week 2, it's a bit much to presume Zato is figured out. give it a few months.
re: "The reason Ky needed to rely on tick throws in +R is because he had no way of opening people up." that's pretty much everyone without a command grab or unblockable setups though.

btw, you can gatling into 5d and that's just a 20f overhead (uncharged), RC and you can get the combo. there's more tricks here to open people up thanks to this, I think. 20f overhead is much faster than most 5d's in GGXX (glancing at the framedata the standard seems to be 24f). If I'm not mistaken anything 20f and lower is considered very difficult to "react" to unless it was seen coming.

 

[Latro]

Generic-Giant-Spider

nage's faust just wiped jwong's may out, what's your excuse bro

HUH!?

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'm pretty sure my microwave sees more time used in two days than JWong playing Strive does in a week.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

If Holy Orders plays it's a 10-0 match-up in my favor.

 

[Matador]

Found out that I had Dota items worth 70 euro from years ago when I used to play that game,sold them, and bought this for free.

I know is not the best character, but I'm going to main Ky. I like the design and I have no time or will to learn Zato right now, and want to change from +R where i used to play Sol along Zato.

Gonna play with the keyboard. I think is the best option for fighting games if you don't have hitbox.

 

[RoBoBOBR]

First DLC character, available July 27th

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Waiting on Testament.

Also unappealing fat guy character #1,311. I wish these shit characters were eliminated from all fighting games.

 

[Latro]

i'm playing chadlewis