Baldur's Gate Has anybody ever tried Melirinda's Icewind Dale II mod?

[Drakron]

If you ask Siegfried to attend the party, he and Shani will kick it off. In the end, I think, they agree on a date.

Nope, Siegfried fails to read the "I want you inside of me" signals that Shani was sending and leaves despite everyone else having read then and were going to leave then alone.

 

[Starwars]

ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ASK: compelling character interactions in games - not just romances. Where at? What game, what character, why? Inquiring minds want to know.

Not romance content, but I still feel the king here is Planescape: Torment. Perhaps especially Dak'kons background because it's a gradual thing (well, the whole circle of Zerthimon depends on your WIS, but still). He's holding back stuff from you and you have to dig it up, I really enjoyed how that played out.
Also, while it was far from a full-fledged romance, the romancey bits with Annah contained far more fire and passion than I've seen in any other "full on" romances. And it wasn't just Annah spouting stuff at you, you had the option to actually do something back. This is also generally a key in Torment I think. In that game, it actually feels like my character (The nameless one) is holding a conversation with someone. It's not just me "unlocking" a new part of a NPC, it plays out very naturally.

EDIT: Also, for partybased games, I really think the party conversation system in SoZ could potentially bring something totally new to the table. While I know the focus wasn't on deep dialogues, it's very pleasing to see the large amount of character recognition while flipping between the characters, and I could really see it (if developed with that purpose in mind) feel like a conversation between several people.
I think this is an innovation for partybased games, and sadly enough I think it will be overlooked in the future.

 

[Zomg]

ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ASK: compelling character interactions in games - not just romances. Where at? What game, what character, why?

The Ravel conversation in PS:T, the first Atris conversation in KotOR2, and the Myrkul conversation in MotB. Those are about 90% writing and dialog design and 10% RPG mechanics (in this case, stat checks). Outside of the standard dialog-tree conversation model, I can't think of any - maybe in IF, like Galatea, but it's not that different from dialog trees.

On another note, there are many character interactions that are compelling, but I wouldn't call them compelling interactions - like talking to Smilin' Jack or Gary in VtMB, or Harold in FO1 - because it's really the character or acting that's compelling, and I'd be nearly as interested to watch them playing cards as interacting with them via the PC.

 

[Disconnected]

Morte. Somehow he managed to be suspect and tragic (without being pathetic), and feel like a much better friend than TNO deserved. The poor little skull actually managed to make me feel like a complete bastard at times.

And of course, I had almost as much fun reading about his struggles with facial expressions, as whomever wrote him.

- That, by the way, I suspect is a large part of the reason PS:T works so well. Unlike most games, much of the stuff that goes on in PS:T isn't rendered in pictures. Instead the player has to apply imagination, and impressive as CG is, it's nowhere near human imagination. Obviously it helps that the writing doesn't suck horribly either.
That things like body language, odd local smells and such gets defined, does much more to bring a conversation to life than a couple of badly animated low-poly characters alone.

 

[Drakron]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.

 

[1eyedking]

Morte. Somehow he managed to be suspect and tragic (without being pathetic), and feel like a much better friend than TNO deserved. The poor little skull actually managed to make me feel like a complete bastard at times.

And of course, I had almost as much fun reading about his struggles with facial expressions, as whomever wrote him.

- That, by the way, I suspect is a large part of the reason PS:T works so well. Unlike most games, much of the stuff that goes on in PS:T isn't rendered in pictures. Instead the player has to apply imagination, and impressive as CG is, it's nowhere near human imagination. Obviously it helps that the writing doesn't suck horribly either.
That things like body language, odd local smells and such gets defined, does much more to bring a conversation to life than a couple of badly animated low-poly characters alone.

Come to think of it, every time I smell formaldehyde I think of PS:T's mortuary.

 

[Drakron]

Come to think of it, every time I smell formaldehyde I think of PS:T's mortuary.

Why are you smelling formaldehyde?

... On second thought, I do not want to know ...

 

[BethesdaLove]

If you ever worked in a morgue, you smell that shit everywhere...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.

The discouraging part is that we'll probably never see games with writing like this:

 

[1eyedking]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.]

The discouraging part is that we'll probably never see games with writing like this:

You call that good writing? It's passable, in the very least, and not even close to PS:T.

Why are you smelling formaldehyde?

... On second thought, I do not want to know ...

I've got friends who study medicine and sometimes they've got that smell on them. Also, every now and then I make a go to this girl's apartment who lives near a university that must have an autopsy room of some sort because I'm always smelling the stuff.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.]

The discouraging part is that we'll probably never see games with writing like this:

You call that good writing? It's passable, in the very least, and not even close to PS:T.

The name Alan Moore ring any bells?

That's Miracleman. You just pwned yourself for all eternity.

 

[Imbecile]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.]

The discouraging part is that we'll probably never see games with writing like this:

You call that good writing? It's passable, in the very least, and not even close to PS:T.

The name Alan Moore ring any bells?

That's Miracleman. You just pwned yourself for all eternity.

Without wishing to go off on too much of a tangent, Watchmen kicks all kinds of arse.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice? DON'T JUST SAY "BOTH" BECAUSE THAT IS CHEATING. The fact is, it's often a zero-sum game when time and talent get involved.

And fucking hell I just KNOW if Alan Moore ever wrote for a game some dipshit exec would be all "IT NEEDS MORE LOVE INTERESTS AND TITTIES AND A-SPLOSIONS" and Alan Moore would glower and intone "THOU HAS DISPLEASED ME. FUCK ALL Y'ALL" and disappear in a cloud of brimstone.

 

[1eyedking]

The name Alan Moore ring any bells?

That's Miracleman. You just pwned yourself for all eternity.

I don't care who that fucker is, the passage you just cited is average at best. Either quote better stuff, or quote better writers.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.]

You call that good writing? It's passable, in the very least, and not even close to PS:T.

If i am not mixing it up with another one it is not a profesional translation, but a fan made one.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Only visual novels still do what PS:T did.]

The discouraging part is that we'll probably never see games with writing like this:

You call that good writing? It's passable, in the very least, and not even close to PS:T.

The name Alan Moore ring any bells?

That's Miracleman. You just pwned yourself for all eternity.

Without wishing to go off on too much of a tangent, Watchmen kicks all kinds of arse.

Definately.

Though when you'd have to choose Moore's best from Watchmen, From Hell, V for Vendetta, Miracleman and hopefully League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century, it's pretty much a last man standing kinda thing.

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice? DON'T JUST SAY "BOTH" BECAUSE THAT IS CHEATING. The fact is, it's often a zero-sum game when time and talent get involved.

And fucking hell I just KNOW if Alan Moore ever wrote for a game some dipshit exec would be all "IT NEEDS MORE LOVE INTERESTS AND TITTIES AND A-SPLOSIONS" and Alan Moore would glower and intone "THOU HAS DISPLEASED ME. FUCK ALL Y'ALL" and disappear in a cloud of brimstone.

And a year later the entire games industry would collapse under the might of the Snake Curse. And then DC would try another Get Alan Moore Or Die Trying scheme.

EDIT: And speaking of Moore and A-SPLOSIONS:

The name Alan Moore ring any bells?

That's Miracleman. You just pwned yourself for all eternity.

I don't care who that fucker is, the passage you just cited is average at best. Either quote better stuff, or quote better writers.

 

[1eyedking]

I still don't get what's so great about this Moore guy.

 

[Zomg]

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice?

It's a false choice. For roleplaying purposes, more choices (i.e. more exponential branches, or at least cul-de-sacs) are only necessary as they increase the depth and/or scope of the portrayal of the PC(s).

Turning left or right at a fork in the road (in neutral context) is a useless choice in terms of roleplaying. You can also create extremely severe limits on interaction/choice without impinging on (my sense of) roleplaying at all - say, set the game (or a compartmentalized section of the game) in a snowbound ski lodge or something. I can't leave, but that's not a constraint on the roleplaying, it's a constraint on the character.

Outside of those premises, part of the art of CRPG design and management is to create the maximum amount of roleplaying (in terms of both depth and scope) with the most efficient use of budget, time and staff (The other half is gameplay and roleplaying-gameplay integration).

So, I would say the question you posed is like asking if a carpenter should use drills or saws.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I still don't get what's so great about this Moore guy.

Well to put it short:

His stories are exquisitely written, packed with fresh ideas, his plots are amazingly elaborate and intelligent, he's capable of creating entirely new techniques and he has the most bitching beard ever.

 

[ghostdog]

What's this shit, you expect him to understand what Alan Moor is all about with two random pics? If you want to know what he is all about (which is the best graphic novel writer I've read, along with Frank Miller) go find and read the Watchmen or V for Vendetta or From Hell or the Killing Joke.

Also, I really love this derail.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

He's the one who wrote the Killing Joke? Yeah, I suppose games will never have something like that.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

What's this shit, you expect him to understand what Alan Moore is all about with two random pics? If you want to know what he is all about (which is the best graphic novel writer I've read, along with Frank Miller) go find and read the Watchmen or V for Vendetta or From Hell or the Killing Joke.

Also, I really love this derail.

Guilty as charged...

You should really add the League there though.

Also, Grant Morrison >>>>>>>>> Frank Miller. Arkham Asylum, Animal Man, All-Star Superman, The Invisibles, Doom Patrol and Final Crisis (especially Superman Beyond) are absolutely fantastic.

EDIT: And Moore is not the best comic book (graphic novel is a newfag term) writer you've read, he's without a doubt THE best.

 

[Radisshu]

The killing joke is so fucking overrated.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Everything good is overrated.

 

[Drakron]

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice? DON'T JUST SAY "BOTH" BECAUSE THAT IS CHEATING. The fact is, it's often a zero-sum game when time and talent get involved.

That is a loaded question.

Visual novels have to be all writing since its the only thing going for then but I know outside the planed routes there is no choice and even the choice is limited to a option box, for most part PS:T was a visual novel.

Also minimum interaction does not excuse poorly motivated NPCs, one of the things its keep being forgotten is timing and pacing and just because the "player character" have to be a blank sheet does not mean NPCs interactions have to be just window dressing for getting a quest.

Despite its many flaws Witcher done good work on giving NPCs a personality, especially with the EE were they displayed body language.