Baldur's Gate Has anybody ever tried Melirinda's Icewind Dale II mod?

[1eyedking]

What's this shit, you expect him to understand what Alan Moor is all about with two random pics? If you want to know what he is all about (which is the best graphic novel writer I've read, along with Frank Miller) go find and read the Watchmen or V for Vendetta or From Hell or the Killing Joke.

Also, I really love this derail.

He did From Hell and V? Fuck, man, tell me sooner.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

You Codexers need some graphic novel education. Start with Watchmen.

I also think you might like Transmetropolitan, by Warren Ellis. Dammed if that isn't one chaotic fucking series of total awesome.

And yes, it's a loaded question. It's not to say you can't have both, but that it takes time and a concerted effort, and when writing isn't your #1 absolute draw (which, unless you're talking about a visual novel, it really can't be in terms of modern game creation), it really is a zero sum game. Knowing where to put that time - whether in finessing fewer choices or offering a wide span - isn't a thing that's easy to discern the worth of, because either way you're going to run into people who damn you for not being the other one.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Smart writing with smart interaction...

It's all about creating an illusion. I personally prefer more interaction/choice, but if the average gamer only sees 20% of the content, then that is time/talent wasted. For example, there should never be huge intricately developed areas that are only open to specific characters and choices. Allowing characters to interact with things the way they see fit (like killing or robbing NPCs) is a good option that doesn't require a huge time sink. Multiple, well written story lines on a smaller scale are good alternatives to a grandiose "by the reigns" campaign. The point is to make content for ALL players that they can experience in their OWN way. This hasn't been done efficiently very often.


Fuck Alan Moore
Manga FTW

 

[GMonkey]

Goddammit, the art in American comics is really fucking awful. I can't understand why the fuck a high brow writer like Moore picks talentless hacks to work with him.

And the coloring. Oh fucking god, the coloring.

 

[Gragt]

You Codexers need some graphic novel education. Start with Watchmen.

And what about Thorgal (viking fantasy and sci-fi ftw), Blake & Mortimer, Aldébaran (I admit I kinda left that one in the middle of the sequel, Bételgueuse and there is a third one, Antarès; I might go back to it one day) or Le Prince de la Nuit (one of the coolest vampire stories since Dracula)? I'm sure most if not all of these were translated in English.

 

[GMonkey]

You Codexers need some graphic novel education. Start with Watchmen.

And what about Thorgal (viking fantasy and sci-fi ftw), Blake & Mortimer, Aldébaran (I admit I kinda left that one in the middle of the sequel, Bételgueuse and there is a third one, Antarès; I might go back to it one day) or Le Prince de la Nuit (one of the coolest vampire stories since Dracula)? I'm sure most if not all of these were translated in English.

Belgium is where all the good comics are/were made. Valérian, for example, is just orgasmic. And everything Moebius touches is solid gold.

 

[Gragt]

Oh God, Valérian, how I could I forget thee? Moebius is actually very interesting as he got two personalities: Jean Giraud (his real name) draws very realistic series like Blueberry while Moebius does sci-fi with mostly american inspiration.

Oh and Marcel Gotlib is a king of humour. I mean, he created one of the most well-known comic books character ever: Sir Isaac Newton. Every encyclopedia has an article about him, even school books and scientific press mention him.

 

[GMonkey]

I never actually read Gotlib. I should see to that.

Franquin is the God King of hilarious drawings, though.

 

[Gragt]

They got different styles, for the best actually.

I guess it's a bit sad to say but one of my favourite series of Franquin was his Idées Noires that he drew during a depression. Just as the title says, he expresses all his disgust for humanity with a lot of dark humour.

 

[GMonkey]

http://www.franquin.com/in/album1_in.php

I love the Bonsai one.

Also the one about Nuclear Power is just awesomely drawn, but I can't find it online.

 

[ushdugery]

What cRPG's are missing is in writers with talent like this;

"It is, in the imagination of combat's fans, the divinely listless loveplay that follows the orgasm of victory. It is called 'mopping up.'"

is that to produce work of that quality for lines that might not even be read in an ancillary storyline is less rewarding and more work that creating a ddefined article in novel form.

 

[oldschool]

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice?

Choice. Lots and lots of choice.

ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ASK: compelling character interactions in games - not just romances. Where at? What game, what character, why? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not a big fan of dialogue box games, so maybe not a useful opinion for you, but anyway:

Kotor1 - Jolee Bindo
At some point I got the option to say "I hate you old man." To date, the only bit of dialogue I've been allowed to click on in a CRPG that I actually wanted my character to say. Jolee was my favorite character in those games.

Kotor2 - Anton
Couldn't have cared less about his backstory or any of the conversations I had with him, but...At one point, I let him fix a vehicle and he said something to the effect of "Expert. I like the sound of that." and I had a big brother moment. He reacted just like one of my little brothers would have. I thought that was cool.

Probably not what you were asking for, but since I don't usually feel very compelled by the dialogue in RPGs, the rare times when it does happen tend to stick with me. Mostly just small moments like those.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Fuck Alan Moore
Manga FTW

Tasteless dog.

Goddammit, the art in American comics is really fucking awful. I can't understand why the fuck a high brow writer like Moore picks talentless hacks to work with him.

And the coloring. Oh fucking god, the coloring.

Because Dave Gibbons and Rick Veitch are some of the best ever. Buy yourself some eyeglasses and better comics.

Oh yeah, and Alex Ross says hello:

Fully hand-painted, no photoshop. The only one I can say off the hook that is as good as Ross is Guarnido.

 

[Longshanks]

The question is: would you rather have really good writing with minimum interaction or decent writing with a lot of choice? DON'T JUST SAY "BOTH" BECAUSE THAT IS CHEATING. The fact is, it's often a zero-sum game when time and talent get involved.

Both! But in different games, if we are presupposing non-viability of both in one. Just like Arcanum/Fallout and PST. Variety ftw.

As to which I prefer, it's hard to say. For an RPG, decent writing with plenty of choice is most definitely preferred, one reason I consider Fallout and Arcanum better RPGs than PST. As an overall game I probably favour PST over Arcanum, but may just have Fallout ahead of PST. I'd never want just one of the two types to be produced, as they offer very different experiences, so rather than choosing one over the other, I'll just hope for quality games of both type.

ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ASK: compelling character interactions in games - not just romances. Where at? What game, what character, why? Inquiring minds want to know.

"The Last Express" has some of the best character interaction of any game for mine. It's not necessarily through great, and certainly not plentiful writing, but the VA (4-5 different languages), interesting characters and presentation (even without lip synching) all fit together perfectly. The incidental conversations are also well written, and give the game a dynamic feel (especially as they are not repeated, you need to be in the right place at the right time to hear them), seriously adding to world believability. While I've said the writing's not great, it's certainly good, and some of the best of its type for a video game (thriller, political intrigue type plot). Nothing like as good as Greene, but maybe the Greene of video games :wink:.

For those who've not played it, I'd suggest taking a look at a couple of the "let's play" videos on youtube. A conversation sample can be found at 6:55 in this linked video: Last Express part 2.

 

[Radisshu]

Everything good is overrated.

Yes, but the Killing Joke isn't even very good.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Killing Joke is amazing. Alan Moore is amazing.

However, the greatest, most amazingest Alan Moore story ever is written by this guy Neil Gaiman and illustrated by Mark Buckingham. Behold!

 

[Elwro]

This was simply amazing.

 

[Quilty]

The only one I can say off the hook that is as good as Ross is Guarnido.

Oh god yes. His work on Blacksad is amazing. I wish I could get my grubby little paws on some more of his work.

 

[1eyedking]

You guys ever heard of Oesterheld? His Mort Cinder comic is full of awesome, plus it was Breccia who did the art:

Cinder is an enigmatic man who cannot die. In his very first appearance, Cinder was presented as an assassin who has been just executed. Some mysterious lead-eyes men are awaiting his resurrection from the grave, planning to use his brain for a horrifying experiment. Winston, called by supernatural messages, comes to save him. Cinder has lived since ancient times, and took part in many famous historical episodes including the building of the Tower of Babel, World War I and the Battle of Thermopylae. His origin, as well as his unearthly skills, were never explained by the authors through. He as been described as "an unquiet conscience of humanity, a witness, sometimes sorrowfully torpid, of the great and small events of the Man, though often a rebellious one who never surrendered to those trying to silence him" (Alessio Lega).

Source

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The only one I can say off the hook that is as good as Ross is Guarnido.

Oh god yes. His work on Blacksad is amazing. I wish I could get my grubby little paws on some more of his work.

I absolutely love the character designs he used in Arctic Nation. The police chief (polar bear) and the Black Panthers are absolutely fantastic.

Not to mention I don't think anyone can depict action the way he does. They are full of motion, expression and suspense. If there is a page that I'd desire to have the original one, more than the polka dance of Mr. Hyde in League, it'd be the page where Blacksad shoots the rat hitman in the first album. Or Karup beating up the arctic fox in the church.

But as far as I know, getting hold of older Guarnido work is pretty hard, since he only made stuff for Spanish fanzines and Spanish Marvel (which is kinda the equivalent of never-ever finding it, since these days Marvel only seems to uniformly pimp out shit)

Ross on the other hand paints pages where that bring out the majesty of the modern-day demigods, giving them the right mixture of mythological and realistic aspect. The scene in Kingdom Come where Superman returns is a perfect example of this. And that particular page where Superman stands up in the sky is just about the perfect image of Superman.

PS: And since Annie mentioned Warren Ellis and Transmetropolitan, I'll point out that Planetary is even better.

 

[ghostdog]

Killing Joke is amazing. Alan Moore is amazing.

However, the greatest, most amazingest Alan Moore story ever is written by this guy Neil Gaiman and illustrated by Mark Buckingham. Behold!

[2 pics full of awesomeness]

this was great.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Killing Joke is amazing. Alan Moore is amazing.

However, the greatest, most amazingest Alan Moore story ever is written by this guy Neil Gaiman and illustrated by Mark Buckingham. Behold!

[2 pics full of awesomeness]

this was great.

And it just makes me hope all the more that Gaiman manages to keep Miracleman away from Todd MacFarlane's hands as well as those other assorted grubby individuals. I would love to see it reprinted so I could get my own physical copy, and I'd be even more ecstatic about Gaiman finishing his Miracleman run that was lamentably cut short.

EDIT: But is everyone aware that Alan Moore himself hates Killing Joke? To him, it's too "cold and without human warmth."

 

[Trash]

Alan Moore is an insane genius. Love to have learned about his stuff a few years back. He got me hooked on comics.

And Killing Joke really isn't that extremely great. It's good, but defenitely not his best work. I for one am glad that he keeps evolving as an artist.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Only Alan Moore work I've read is Watchmen, which I finally caved and checked out a few weeks ago. Was damn solid, need to find time to re-read it and pick up... V for Vendetta, or is there anything more recommended?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Alan Moore is an insane genius. Love to have learned about his stuff a few years back. He got me hooked on comics.

And Killing Joke really isn't that extremely great. It's good, but defenitely not his best work. I for one am glad that he keeps evolving as an artist.

Definately. The metaphysics he presents ever since Promethea have been mind-blowing. It's just that he hasn't taken on an ambitious project ever since From Hell, not until the upcoming League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century.