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Editorial Has Obsidian lost its luster?

ghostdog

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Unfortunately MOTB was fucked from the start because it came out as a "sequel" to a shitty game that uses a shitty engine. Not to mention that they decided to go for epic D&D levels, which are retarded. If only they had released it as a stand alone game.

Although, MOTB may had been so good exactly because it was a "simple" sequel and the developers were left to do as they pleased. If it was a standalone game Obsidian would probably run it through a popamolization/D&Dfanservice/retarded-sequel procedure.
 

racofer

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ghostdog said:
Unfortunately MOTB was fucked from the start because it came out as a "sequel" to a shitty game that uses a shitty engine with a shitty camera, shitty user interface and yet to be explained shitty hardcoded right-click delay. Not to mention that they decided to go for epic D&D levels, which are retarded. If only they had released it as a stand alone game.

Although, MOTB may had been so good exactly because it was a "simple" sequel and the developers were left to do as they pleased. If it was a standalone game Obsidian would probably run it through a popamolization/D&Dfanservice/retarded-sequel procedure.

Improved.
 

Jaedar

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Right click delay is because right clock "targets" and right hold opens the menu. There, now it is explained.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
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Jaedar said:
Right click delay is because right clock "targets" and right hold opens the menu. There, now it is explained.
One part of the bad UI is implemented because other bad parts require it.
Yeah sure, great explanation.
 

Sceptic

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You're STILL complaining about the right-click delay racofer? It's 0.1s. The humanity.
 
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Stop picking on him you bully, raco already has it hard enough.

_60317_keyboard_feet_300.jpg
 

racofer

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Of course I am. It's a design flaw that hasn't been addressed yet. Remember when NWN2 was brand new? It was set at 0.5s and couldn't be reduced. Many patches later they introduced that slider which allows you do reduce the delay to as low as 0.1s, which still requires you to hold down the right mouse button instead of simply clicking on the object you want to perform a specific action with.

There's no explanation for this other than shitty coding. Those morons at Obshit probably hardcoded a variable that returns the right click delay counter through another routine, and that variable divides a constant by it, hence why it can't be set to 0 otherwise this would generate an exception. Still, this is no excuse for shoddy programming on their part. They're fucking professional programmers for fucks sake, you don't create a routine that returns the value of a division of a constant by a variable that could be set to zero unless it's a very specific routine used to detected this kind of erroneous operation. This is fucking inexcusable.
 

Azarkon

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Obsidian is basically BIS post-Fallout. It lacks almost all the key people who worked on the original Fallout: Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, etc., who went to Troika. But it has a lot of the key people who worked on or were responsible for PST and IWD: Chris Avellone, Dennis Presnell, Chris Parker, Josh Sawyer, Feargus, etc. I think Obsidian lost Dave Maldonado (responsible for the Brothel and Clerk's Ward in PST, among other things) a while back to Blizzard, which is a shame, and they also lost Colin McComb (Trias & Fhjull, Foundry, & other design work), but they recruited George Ziets, who seems to be a top-notch lead. In terms of artists and musicians they lost people like Eric Campanella (PST monsters) and Mark Morgan (PST soundtrack), but their new team does a reasonably good job, if not spectacular.

Post-Fallout BIS and Obsidian are quite similar in many other ways, including a reliance on third party engines (PST and IWD were both IE games), a balance between story-based and combat-centric titles, the latter of which typically isn't as good (but I guess IWD fans will disagree), a genuine attempt at C&C in most of their story-centric RPGs, and a tendency to release games that are unbalanced and/or unfinished. In any case if you're one of those people who worship Chris Avellone for PST, then you should be able to see his touch in most of the Obsidian games. But that's a topic for another post.

As far as luster goes, I don't think Obsidian ever had that much luster. Even in the BIS days, after Tim Cain and co. left, the only game they made that could truly be considered a classic is PST. In fact, it is because of PST and Chris Avellone that Obsidian gets much street cred from fans. In some ways, everybody's basically just waiting for the next PST (perhaps in vain), and hoping that Obsidian lasts long enough to make it.
 

Xor

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I would say they're about the same as ever. They keep releasing enjoyable but unfinished games and I'll probably keep paying for them as long as they stay above a certain level of quality. Not like there are many other games worth spending money on. And this money isn't going to spend itself.
 

yaster

Liturgist
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Xor said:
And this money isn't going to spend itself.

I can help with this peculiar problem. All you need to do is ask. A word. One word. And you will see me coming without hesitation or reservation, ready to spend that filthy money. I'd spend it good. So good in fact that you would never see it again, hear it again or even have to spend it ever again. Wouldn't it be just swell?
 

Azarkon

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Xor said:
I would say they're about the same as ever. They keep releasing enjoyable but unfinished games and I'll probably keep paying for them as long as they stay above a certain level of quality. Not like there are many other games worth spending money on. And this money isn't going to spend itself.

Feel the same way, though I admit to be being burned over the NWN 2 OC and SOZ, probably the only two BIS/Obsidian titles that I could find no real redeeming values for, personally, though I understand SOZ was loved in some circles because it's a throwback to the IE days of wandering around maps and fighting random encounters. But seriously, mix NWN 2's subpar gameplay mechanics with a game that was all about mechanics, and you have a recipe for fail. As for NWN 2 itself, besides the fact of the OC being mediocre, it was a good implementation of D&D 3.5 (Sawyer's attention to details?), but that's about it.

At this point in time, I'd have to say that I prefer it when Obsidian sticks to story-centric RPGs, which they have a niche and a knack for. Avellone generally does not disappoint when he's the sole lead designer/writer on a game (ie when he's inspired). I found something to admire about what he tried to do with KOTOR 2, and either he or Mitsoda or both were responsible for AP, the writing and characters of which I rather enjoyed. George Ziets (MOTB) is great, too, but then we've only seen one title from him.

DS 3 may change my mind about Obsidian "action" games (Ziets is creative lead again, which makes me hopeful), and New Vegas will be the first showcase of Josh Sawyer as project director since, well, IWD 2. We'll see.
 

Sceptic

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Azarkon said:
I understand SOZ was loved in some circles because it's a throwback to the IE days
To Pool of Radiance actually, as far as I was concerned. It also had some pretty clever design in places, the occasional surprising quest, an excellent final dungeon that you could go through with as much or as little fighting as you wanted, and one of the most glorious and fun final battles that I've seen in many, many years. The latter is especially noteworthy because it's so rare (contrast with the horrible NWN2 OC final battle, which is more typical). I can see why a lot people wouldn't enjoy SOZ because of the focus on mechanics, but considering they were well done and clever for the most part I found them to be very enjoyable.
 

FeelTheRads

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Sceptic said:
To Pool of Radiance actually, as far as I was concerned. It also had some pretty clever design in places, the occasional surprising quest, an excellent final dungeon that you could go through with as much or as little fighting as you wanted, and one of the most glorious and fun final battles that I've seen in many, many years. The latter is especially noteworthy because it's so rare (contrast with the horrible NWN2 OC final battle, which is more typical). I can see why a lot people wouldn't enjoy SOZ because of the focus on mechanics, but considering they were well done and clever for the most part I found them to be very enjoyable.

As I said before, SoZ seemed promising but I just couldn't get over the every-two-steps loadings. It may not help that I also tried it a short time after the dismal OC so maybe I'll give it another try sometime when computers will be as fast that loading will be instantaneous.
 

Gragt

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My main gripe with SoZ was the broken trading system. It was so easy that it basically gave you unlimited ressources to craft any weapon and armour you could want. By contrast hunting for spells was fun.

And yeah, the end encounter was glorious. Very frustrating because the difficulty got up ten notches in an overal easy game without any warning, but I still enjoyed it.
 

Jaedar

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FeelTheRads said:
As I said before, SoZ seemed promising but I just couldn't get over the every-two-steps loadings. It may not help that I also tried it a short time after the dismal OC so maybe I'll give it another try sometime when computers will be as fast that loading will be instantaneous.
Like I've said before, the loading times improved a lot (from ~1 min to 10 seconds for me) when they removed the DRM with a patch. If you play it now, fully patched, you may very well find it loads much faster.

I tried playing SoZ, but I lost interest just one or two hours before the last boss. Feels like a big mistake now, after I learned that the end boss is supposedly worth it.
 

Volourn

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"but considering they were well done and clever for the most part"

\No, they weren't. SOZ may have been 'old skool' but it was shitty old skool not good old skool. SOZ is no POR. Not even in the same stratosphere of quality.

SOZ SHITTY SOZ SHITTY SOZ SHITTY.
 

Lockkaliber

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I really liked the overland map and the mechanics for using your skills on it. I wish they would have done something more like that.
 

Azarkon

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Oct 7, 2005
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The overland implementation was fairly good, but like many other people I couldn't get over the constant loading and focus on combat in a game where combat wasn't all that fun. Gave up about half-way through the game. I did like what modders did with the system, though (ie Misery Stone).
 

Heartwarden

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Blighty
racofer said:
Menu delay rant
It's funny, you can actually bug the game into having no delay at all by simply holding shift, and using the menu once. Every time after that - until you hit shift again - will have no delay.

It's a bug, too, because you'll end up walking everywhere and it messes up the hotbar.

When is it ever used, anyway? It'd be too intrusive if it came up with a simple click (and the left-click to target is so horrible, the right click is -needed-), and I don't recall ever being in a situation where right clicking up the menu was needed except to examine.
 

ricolikesrice

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May 11, 2007
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1,231
has there been any good SoZ mod that properly used the overland travel yet ?

i thought SoZ was a piece of shit, then again maybe my standards were too high from RoA where skillchecks (and proper preparation) were actually NEEDED to survive in the wilderness and where exploration was rewarding.

in SoZ skills werent needed at all, they just provided you with extra loot most of the time and the jungle didnt feel dangerous either, might as well have been disneyland. and the most important aspect, exploration, was a sad joke considering all you found was the epitome of generic (mostly 1-2 rooms small) dungeons like crypts with ghosts, caves with kobold , temples with lizards and a mages tower ... wow :lol:

anyway, i d be interested to hear if a modder could salvage that trainwreck.
 

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