Has your opinion of Obsidian changed after Avellone’s revelations and Deadfire?

[Roguey]

Articles about this stuff come out all the time. Comprehensive op-eds covering many companies, with normal developers speaking under their names. And yet for some reason what should be the biggest story of them all, somehow gets zero coverage. Either Feargus is a mumbling fool, or he is a evil KGB genius playing all the media like a fiddle. Decide on a narrative and stick to it.

Obsidian is a company they like, and that's why they never reported on it.

Additionally, keep in mind that Chris has one or more moles at Obsidian feeding him (occasionally biased) information. That wouldn't happen if there were all happy employees there.

 

[Aim1ess]

Articles about this stuff come out all the time. Comprehensive op-eds covering many companies, with normal developers speaking under their names. And yet for some reason what should be the biggest story of them all, somehow gets zero coverage. Either Feargus is a mumbling fool, or he is a evil KGB genius playing all the media like a fiddle. Decide on a narrative and stick to it.

Obsidian is a company they like, and that's why they never reported on it.

Additionally, keep in mind that Chris has one or more moles at Obsidian feeding him (occasionally biased) information. That wouldn't happen if there were all happy employees there.

There is a whole lot of wiggle room between 100% happy employees and a hellhole.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

And yeah, nigga, not a single gaming website picked up on it. Not a single current or former employee came out to support him. Let that sink in, mate.

When CD Projekt work conditions came to light after one developer spoke out, did the press reach out to employees? No. A fucking youtuber interviewed 50 employees and published his report. No press did it. Let that sink in.

The only fact we know for certain is that the press didn't run the story Chris gave them.

There was a story in it, whichever side you chose to believe. That Chris was alleging something is itself a story. Then they could've gone for anonymous confirmation from ex employees, which they never do. But let's say they did, and said employees denied those allegations. So this is in itself even more of a story now, it's a second article now with an update!

They didn't run a story that was a story. I'm sorry to break it to you, but game journalists aren't real.

 

[Roguey]

There is a whole lot of wiggle room between 100% happy employees and a hellhole.

Avellone never described it as some sort of sweat shop, in fact saying that crunch time didn't happen particularly often. He made it clear what his issues were (and that the issues were more apparent the closer to Feargus you got).

 

[ScrotumBroth]

What happened with Obsidian and Avellone is just a smaller piece of the Kickstarter puzzle and general disappointment with deliveries from Obsidian and InXile.

I don't regret backing any of the games, but both dev studios have a lot of failed expectations to make up for before they're in the clear.

 

[Safav Hamon]

The issue is that Avellone is just one guy with one side of a story. No other developer came out and spoke to his side of the story, but two came out and contradicted him.

I don't suspect him of being a liar, but he probably exaggerated some claims and told some half-truths. Some of his accusations were pretty unbelievable, like Obsidian trying to get him to sign a lifetime non-compete agreement (their lawyers would never have approved it).

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Eh, Obsidian no longer holds interest for me as a developer for the most part. I'm waiting for the final DLC from them on Deadfire and I may get started up with them but who knows.

I'm replaying Underrail and having so much more fun than on any Obsidian game I've got, even New Vegas.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The issue is that Avellone is just one guy with one side of a story. No other developer came out and spoke to his side of the story, but two came out and contradicted him.

I don't suspect him of being a liar, but he probably exaggerated some claims and told some half-truths. Some of his accusations were pretty unbelievable, like Obsidian forcing him to sign a lifetime non-compete agreement (their lawyers would never of approved that).

A lifetime non-compete agreement wouldn't even hold up in court. Non-compete agreements have to be pretty narrow in scope.

Maybe you/he meant an NDA?

 

[Safav Hamon]

No, he was clear that they tried to get him to sign a lifetime non-compete agreement. That shot my BS meter through the roof.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

No, he was clear that they tried to get him to sign a lifetime non-compete agreement.

I'd like a source for that. If I had a test and had to retell the whole story, I would've said "a non compete for ~3 years". I don't remember the specifics either, but it must've been for about 3 years, it's pretty standard.

 

[aweigh]

real talk: my interest in obsidian games has waned but it has nothing to do with CA; it's because its last two games (PoE 1/2 and Tyranny) were mediocre and/or underwhelming.

When was I most interested in obs? in the time period of NWN2 and F: NV. I think this probably holds true for most OBS 'fans'.

 

[Roguey]

NWN2 OC and SoZ were bland boring Feargus garbage though.

 

[aweigh]

i legit would rather replay nwn2 oc than poe and i know i'm not the only one even if most won't admit it.

(not that a game being more replayable/enjoyable than PoE is some sort of achievement anyhow).

 

[Nano]

NWN2 OC and SoZ were bland boring Feargus garbage though.

MotB was sandwiched between them. Obsidian was a hit and miss company back then, compared to now where it's all miss.

 

[Barbarian]

After the disappointment that was PoE I have written Obsidian off the book. Haven't bought either Tiranny or PoE2 and I seriously doubt I will be buying any of their products again unless either the premise or the personnel involved is much different than what they have been making.

All the sjw bullshit only adds to the lack of quality in their products. A pity codexers have not been supporting the companies out there that have been releasing truly good rpg games, I.e: I hear "Expeditions: Viking" has not sold well even though it is probably the best turn-based rpg released in years and certainly manyfold better than either pillars of faggotry or tranny. It has not received much coverage here as well.

 

[Flou]

I'd like a source for that. If I had a test and had to retell the whole story, I would've said "a non compete for ~3 years". I don't remember the specifics either, but it must've been for about 3 years, it's pretty standard.

Go look it up yourself. Some people even called him out on the claim, but he obviously wouldn't reply and confirm that it was actually just few years and not the rest of his life like he made it sound originally.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, he implied he left Obsidian with no money, because part of the deal was a non-compete for life. Even though that would be so hilariously illegal, court would void the non-compete in a second and he would still have have his payout.

And obviously a standard non-compete for a former owner would usually come with a hefty severance package. But then that doesn't make for a dramatic tale about how big bad Feargus made him leave Obsidian with no money, insurance and basically starving.

And yet the same guy who claims he was starving in 2015, mere 3 years later now claims to be filthy rich millionaire who can survive for decades in California of all places without even working a day in his life. Apparently Larian and Beamdog pay millions for writing one companion.

The whole story has more holes than Ethiopian navy.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Yeah, he implied he left Obsidian with no money, because part of the deal was a non-compete for life. Even though that would be so hilariously illegal

I think you misinterpreted what was said.
Plus, being unable to work for 3-5 years in the only industry you know is tantamount for a non-compete for life in many regards. I won't belabor the point.
And for all we know, Obshitians could've asked him to sign that he transfers the ownership of the moon to them. It's not illegal to make people sign anything. Don't say it's illegal. The document wouldn't hold any legal value if they tried to enforce it, but it's not illegal to make him sign it. And he didn't have a lawyer at the time, which was already established.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

And obviously a standard non-compete for a former owner would usually come with a hefty severance package.

Usually. Or what? Or Avellone might start his own company? So fucking what if he will, RPGs almost don't compete between themselves, unlike MMOs, online shooters, etc. An RPG lover will buy all RPGs that he considers good. Plus, Avellone clearly wasn't valued there. They didn't think he had it in him to start anything. Which he hasn't, by the way.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

mere 3 years later now claims to be filthy rich millionaire who can survive for decades in California of all places without even working a day in his life. Apparently Larian and Beamdog pay millions for writing one companion.

There was an article on gamasutra or somewhere, about how Valve values or pays its employees vs. how it handles its contractors. An ex-employee made a hundred tweats about working conditions at Valve. Contractors are swimming in gold, while employees eat shit.

That's just one example from real life.

 

[Tigranes]

Honestly, I think Obsidian missed their chance to become what we really wanted (& what some of them at least probably wanted) - a maker of biggish-budget story-heavy RPGs with quality signature writing - long before Kickstarter.

The crucial period was probably when multiple efforts to get a big original IP title failed (esp. the Xbox cancel), when Alpha Protocol sales bombed, when Onyx had to basically be canned after all the investment.

In a sense, I'm very happy we got KOTOR2, MOTB, FNV and AP - four titles each with unique and memorable writing, from a company which could never actually produce an original IP hit or a single truly polished slam dunk but tried hard to make good RPGs. I remember the years between BIS closing and Obsidian opening, and it was a lot more hopeless & decline.

After that, it's all quite different. Avellone checks out, Kickstarter, the 'side ops' to keep the company running become more desperate and high maintenance (South Park, Armoured Warfare). I like POE1/2, but I won't pretend that it carries the Obsidian signature from the old days in any way. It's almost as if Obsidian went down after Aliens, Josh Sawyer & co escaped on a raft and kickstarted a little old school RPG outfit.

Who knows, though, when/if the Tim Cain game gets announced. It would be quite a story if after all that Obsidian keeps going and gives us another big budget RPG, good or bad.

 

[Invictus]

To be brutally honest... given the recent track record of old rock star designers and producers like Carmack, Neurath, Spector, Lord British and various others seems like these guys have just gone stale and out of touch with what current gaming trends are and what the actual legacy of some of the products they developed have set as the bar for the expectations people have not only of them but their recent products, and most often than not they have not met those expectations and from all the looks of it Underworld Ascendant will be mediocre at best and both System Shock projects have serious identity crisises going on for the unbelievable lack of vision from their new development teams, and yes that includes Spector and Church

So while I truly hope we get one last gem from Boyarzky and Cain, keep on mind their last 3 games while flawed (but timeless classics) relied a whole lot on their very good writing, which is clearly not Obsidian’s forte right now

The RPG side of me wants them badly to succeed even if that directly benefits Doddering Fergus but the odds seem to be stacked against Obsidian on this one; no more “aw shucks” get out of jail card if Project Indiana doesn’t come through

 

[ArchAngel]

i legit would rather replay nwn2 oc than poe and i know i'm not the only one even if most won't admit it.

(not that a game being more replayable/enjoyable than PoE is some sort of achievement anyhow).

I've rather play SoZ again than both. Even with the super irritating camera and buffs no longer working as soon as you hit the overland map.

 

[fantadomat]

A pity codexers have not been supporting the companies out there that have been releasing truly good rpg games, I.e: I hear "Expeditions: Viking" has not sold well even though it is probably the best turn-based rpg released in years and certainly manyfold better than either pillars of faggotry or tranny. It has not received much coverage here as well.

I agree with you mate. It is shame that the codex is filled with popamole retards and shills this days. Oh well,at least there are a few oldfags with taste here and there.

 

[Flou]

I think you misinterpreted what was said.
Plus, being unable to work for 3-5 years in the only industry you know is tantamount for a non-compete for life in many regards. I won't belabor the point.

By you, mean everyone in that thread? People were going berserk over the lifetime non-compete clause, but Chris didn't correct anyone's delusions over the matter. One might ask why...