Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Basically OPMs relative to how NCR and Legion start in OWB.

Well, that's true, but OWB start-date is 2270s. Compare to FODD, which starts in 2245.

I would't say FUSA is OPM, tho. They are HUGE, they just need to win the civil war and then in two, three years they will be strong as hell. Last time I played FUSA, I abandoned the game out of boredom and switched to Enclave, which had pretty much everyone running a train on them.

To be fair to OWD, they have far less map area, althrough far more province area.

One way to weaken NCR would be to turn all states except Shady Sands into puppets of NCR, and have NCR slowly go up its tree to annex them.

Because they are wasting time on made up factions that never existed. They could put the Midwestern BoS, Reavers, Beastlords, and Chicago Enclave (cringe) in right now, but they are too worried about LARPing their own shit. Which is fine but it just makes me want to make my own spinoff mod.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Basically OPMs relative to how NCR and Legion start in OWB.

Well, that's true, but OWB start-date is 2270s. Compare to FODD, which starts in 2245.

I would't say FUSA is OPM, tho. They are HUGE, they just need to win the civil war and then in two, three years they will be strong as hell. Last time I played FUSA, I abandoned the game out of boredom and switched to Enclave, which had pretty much everyone running a train on them.

To be fair to OWD, they have far less map area, althrough far more province area.

One way to weaken NCR would be to turn all states except Shady Sands into puppets of NCR, and have NCR slowly go up its tree to annex them.

Because they are wasting time on made up factions that never existed. They could put the Midwestern BoS, Reavers, Beastlords, and Chicago Enclave (cringe) in right now, but they are too worried about LARPing their own shit. Which is fine but it just makes me want to make my own spinoff mod.

I dunno man, FODD has plenty of "made-up" factions, like FUSA, New Church, Kurtz's Camp, Mexicans, etc.

Just gotta fill all them areas of the map. This is especially bad when they go to the East Coast, because honestly, we are two games in and we barely know anything about the East Coast. We know Washington DC area, Pittsburgh, Boston, and... and that's pretty much it. Feels like we know shit, honestly.

Meanwhile in the originals, by FO2 we had knowledge of all of California, northern Oregon and Western Nevada. We knew multiple city-states and even a honest-to-goodness nation-state.

Hell, in FNV not only we get an update on what's up with pretty much all the West Coast, we also learn what happened with the Super Mutants from Broken Hills, learn about the rest of Nevada, know what's up with Utah, and most of the Soouthwest.

ALTHROUGH, I do wonder what's the point of a bunch of factions that are pretty much there for majors to eat. Then again, you never know.


Is OWB making its own map? That would explain why expansion is slower. I would love to see the map expanded east to give Caesar's Legion something else to fight, or NCR get something to fight after it beats the Legion.

I haven't played either yet due to the reasons I listed. I understand using certain barely mentioned factions. There are enough of those to where you don't need to make any up though. There is no reason to use materials from Fallout Extreme for instance.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en_US&mid=1PxdkhuPQFEDclp6pLbNpglmI2AY&ll=39.83925494017544,-94.73918630794259&z=4

There are most of the canon sources although they leave out the Montana Chapter that was alluded to in 3.

Do like they have been and you get this.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en_US&mid=1puuQVpbfh4ofYflJxJPB6iul6JQ&ll=33.90489811771885,-93.65477600698182&z=5'

L9luJWH.png



Not every region needs to have a huge faction for one. Idaho, Oregon, Wyoming - all tribal raiders. The entire north is like that thus far. Fallout 1 and 2 implied nothing worth mentioning was in the Midwest, then we get Tactics which cemented the fact that aside from Mutants and Robots which are likely now dead, there is nothing but raiders and tribals there. Possibly we have BoS/Enclave remnants in Chicago. I will RUN THROUGH THE STREETS and claim Seattle and Detroit are your prime locations for major future factions. If they want to start hammering out more made up factions they should draw from Native American lore with the Great Plains since nothing is there. So we have the middle and north filled out now. As far as the EAST COAST goes if they are using EXTREME then they will use Tactics 2 for Florida, you got the swamp people from Fallout 3, Boston, D.C, West Virginia now which will not do too much I wager, but it will add something. Ronto will be your go to Canadian faction unless they draw more from Tactics.

In short:

Seattle - Made up BoS/THE CAUSE
Montana-small chapter of BoS
Chicago/Detroit region-Midwest Tribal BoS with possible Enclave remnants
Florida-More BoS
Texas/Great Plains-BoS and Natives
Virginia-Vault shit


Too much BoS. Since they are using semi canon and fanon they should skip BoS influence in Seattle and go with THE CAUSE. The Midwestern faction should be heavily tribalized I think due to this reference:

My scouts engaged an enemy today. The sound of chain guns and explosions hasting my steps. What I observed in that fight changed me to the core of my being.

My mutant scouts were engaged by a Brotherhood patrol. For the first time in my life, I was frozen in battle.

I watched, curious even, tribal looking Brotherhood soldiers laughing manically as they cut down my new companions.

My mutant companions, who dedicated their life to me as their leader. I lifted my weapon then, and fired again and again.

When it was over, with Brotherhood corpses littering the ground, my head suddenly cleared. I now know my purpose and, more importantly, I finally know who I am.

I am Gammorin - sworn enemy of the Menace from the West.

----

If they use PoS 2 lore they can use the raider boss from it that was going to use some bio weapons. The East Coast also has all of those dumbass Beth factions like Minuteman, Regulators, Talon Company, Children of Atom, etc..


voNsgn1.png
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Well, that's true.

There's a lot of Fallouty New Faction easy material:

- Vaults
- Robots and AIs
- Tribals.
- More Nation-States (it has been over two hundred years, the NCR should't be the only half-decent nation-state in the business)
- Pre-War Remnants
- All sorts of mutant monsters and creatures. IMHO Fallout needs more human mutants that aren't sterile and/or rabid mutant monsters that attack on sight. I think Super Mutants and Ghouls are getting old already, especially with Bethesda rehashing the Super Mutants every game, and in totally uninspired and bland ways that ultimately add nothing to the main plot.
- If you want to add more Mutant FEV creatures, there's the FEV Quarantine Towns that are said in the Fallout Bible.
- Lost/Non-added/implied content. Like TV Town, the Burrows, Robot City, Ronto, etc.

Honestly I'm kinda of jealous of the OWB project re: map. Wish I had a map this granular, especially on the West Coast, because fuck Doomstacking. Also they did something I always wanted to - navigable rivers, which would finally make the naval game relevant on good part of the continent. The E3 map helped a lot, but its clearly a HOI map, not a made-for-demand NA map.

Funny you say too much BOS, but these niggas be widespread as hell, and their nifty tech does mean that their influence is over-sized. Even the Mojave Chapter was able to fight like 2k NCR troopers with like a hundred paladins, and they only lost because their defensive position was crap and Father Elijah is so callous with human life.

Honestly if I was going to use OWB as a base for a mod, I would do something focused on the classic West Coast, say, Fallout 1 time - say, 2150-2160. They got a perfect map for that already. Lots of factions around already - Shady Sands, Junktown, Hub, Necropolis, Khans, Vipers, Jackals, The Unity, Brotherhood of Steel classic flavour, Union of Atomic Workers if you wanna go a bit back. Not to mention other stuff already around - Den, Modoc, Vault City, Redding, San Francisco, and more from other Fallouts.

Enclave is also already around, have them isolationistic until the post-FO1 time, then have then slowly enter the gameworld. Balance it with events, manpower and such to prevent the Enclave from simply having a hundred doomstacks by 2170 or something. Make them up harder if the Unity wins.

Deal with some things through sandboxy-events. For example, Vault Dweller events. Which could lead to a "Vault Dweller" loses outcome, and then you get the non-canon scenario of The Master going all-out on the West Coast.

Leave some placeholders for new settlements and factions that will show up from events - say, Arroyo, Broken Hills, Calculator, Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, Gammorin's Army.

Focus mod on long-play, nation-building and all. More like a game of Victoria.


I actually had a lengthy debate about the BoS recently over at NMA and how effective they actually are. That Helios thing was totally Elijah's fault. At this point though it is little more than nerds arguing over whether Hulk can beat Wolverine. The answer is if the writer wants him to. The canon has been too tainted to be regarded as anything other than fluff headcanon material to jack off to at night while you go to sleep...just a stream of thought on the subject...

I think the nature of the genre means no matter how we try to scale it down it still blows into a game where the Gun Runners somehow took over New California because of gameplay, so we might as well go all out and get all the factions in there so people can further mod the existing framework into perfection.

You are right though. If you do scale it down the factions become much more numerous and varied. Imo this is better suited for RTS. I have ideas for Dawn of War and Civ 5 more so than Hearts of Iron since I have not played it, but the minor specifics are unimportant. Crusader Kings is too complex imo.

Possible factions if we go full retard...

https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Robot_City
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tibbets_Prison
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Circle_Junction
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dayglow
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Boulder_Dome
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gammorin's_Army
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Attis_Army
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lone_Star
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jackals
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ciphers
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pitt_(add-on)
https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Point_Lookout_tribal

Don't forget the Hillfolk though. Plus whatever idiot shit we get from 76. There is no telling what the story will be about aside from NUKES.

Give the Khans a spot up north with that single New Vegas ending...Wyoming for sure if they didn't already...Throw in a tribe of Talking Hairy Deathclaws or perhaps Lobotomites led by Mobius for the lulz. Since Aliens are a thing now throw in the Zetans in New Mexico so we can just destroy what sense we have left.

I forget the group of Reavers that got cut from the first Tactics but those guys too to pad out the MIdwest region...there are a ton of factions to work up as you say. You could bring New Reno into the fold, House and the various Casino Tribals, Boomers, Powder Gangers, hell throw in some Calculator robots by using the Barnaky ending...My vote is for...

https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Burrows

Florida is for sure going to get this treatment if they are going to do the entire US.
---
Fallout Tactics 2

The game took place in the Southeastern USA, as far as Florida, and the major conflict was to be between man and nature. The Brotherhood of Steel was to be portrayed as even more militaristic and oppressive, and as BoS only in name.

The basic premise was that a GECK had been irradiated, and thus, the "Garden of Eden" it created was full of mutant plants and fungi. The mutant garden begins to spread fairly rapidly, preying upon animal life and using them as carriers/fertilizer to spread its fungal seed. The player basically gets tasked with discovering the source and a way to put an end to it. You had accelerated regrowth and nature reclaiming the wasteland, but because the irradiated GECK also wants to get rid of humans, there's a real moral ambiguity to it.
---

BoS in Florida would be "bad guys". So would the Midwestern BoS for that matter. I'm still not sure how they logically justified them going to Florida but I know they wanted to change the setting. I wish we could get Gareth Davies to elaborate on their ideas for that one. Anyone involved with those lesser known projects that barely saw the light of day really. NEED INPUT.
I mean I could write the fucking lore for this shit myself. The whole series is derivative as all hell. Not a single original idea in it's brain box. I just know nothing of modding those engines.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
I dunno, there's always the verissimilitude thing.

Its a bit weird because in the West Coast they're killing NCR elite by the thousand and fighting the Enclave, but in the East they're losing to giant 'tards with single digit QIs and going in urban combat with them. Then they do pretty decent 1v1 against Enclave... WHAT.

(its generally acknowledged in Fanon that Elder Lyons sucks at tactics and strategy)


He sure does suck at strategy considering he couldn't find the Midwestern BoS, stumbles upon The Pitt, then gets distracted and heads off to D.C. I can't help but share this map I made a little bit ago to demonstrate the possible route I think he took, since he out of nowhere mentioned Montana in Fallout 3...

TNolYe2.jpg



Well, that's true. But do remember, Caesar's Legion pretty much started because a missionary and a history nerd from Boneyeard got kidnapped, the later taught some primitives how to fight smarter, and the former translated it. Its just a question of doing it right so its an epic feat.

(I mean, have you seen their plasma rifles and guns? They could probably take over Boneyeard if they weren't more interested in selling guns so someone else does it instead. "Today starts the Gun Runner regime over Boneyeard, may it take over all of New California and last forever. Oh, you disagree?" *sound of plasma caster fire, followed by flesh melting* "Complaint addressed, next.")


I agree I just prefer to keep things as close to possible as they exist in lore then go full retard. To be quite honest I just really need the Midwestern BoS to exist. I see them spinning wheels on shit in Seattle and it drives me nuts. It's their passion project though.

A Fallout RTS would be... weird. It would have to be pretty different to work out.


Dawn of War style with objectives and capture the flag-esque nodes you need to capture. You wouldn't be building big buildings to pump out units. you would likely take over existing ruins, garrison, and possibly get supply lines running to various towns. You would need...the overhead map style campaign of DoW Soulstorm as a model I think. Ultimate Apocalypse would be the scale I would go for.


Civilization scale it works. You ever play the Fallout mod for Civilization III? Its pretty great.
CiV is crap for modding tho, IV is far better... pity the engine is a piece of old crap, its super-modable.
I do wonder if enough work on the Freeciv engine would make it work. Its on Lua, so its probably pretty simple. Maybe...

I don't own Civ III or IV sadly. The only thing holding me back is the lack of a partner to do such a thing. I tend to task myself out to various projects so I get spread pretty thin. I can't do it all myself. Not a total conversion like that because I couldn't do it half ass. OCD doesn't help. It's why I need all the factions in the game to play it.


The perfect Fallout mod would require a game with the world's weirdest mix of mechanics.


If we are talking simulation you simply need enough unique events to make the world feel real, survival aspects like food, water, radiation would need to be integrated into the mix, and a good blend of military tactics with skill/research trees. Hero units with Perks...possibly you could make your own. I honestly think it needs to be a mix of Civ 5 and DoW to hit it BIG. Thinking beyond mods even...


640px-Cartes_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_de_Fallout_1_%C3%A0_3.png


---

City-Screen.jpg


relic00351.jpg


Except it would not be such a large scale in regards to troops. You would move your troops on the world map, when encountering other units it would switch to your upclose maps here. You could zoom way out but the map would be on a Pipboy like device when in these battles...

dByfjBt.png


So WORLD MAP/BATTLE MAP/DIPLOMACY. Essentially we are talking about Fallout: Total War except more objective based.

To make it interesting you could do more factions involved in the maps...imagine instead of 8 people online in a game like this you have 24...the rest I am on board with in regards to your ideas with Big Mt. and the rest. Our interests align in those respects.

Focus Trees/Events that lead the Midwestern BOS to go into Florida?

That might work for the other minor chapters as well.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
DD Mines
Welcome to another glorious Wednesday! Today we are going to be talking about mines and mine sweeping. Historically hundreds of thousands of mines were laid during WW2 and with Man the Guns you too will be able to do so in Hearts of Iron.

From a gameplay perspective mines do a lot of interesting things. They add more interaction with the naval layer of the game, create a weapon both for smaller naval nations to fight bigger ones, and for big ones to try and limit where the enemy can get to them.

index.php


As you may remember from my presentation at PDXCON, I talked about adding a ship designer to Man the Guns. It is not quite ready to show off, but it’s important to know that sweeping and laying mines are something you will be upgrading or redesigning your ships to be doing. Minelayers and Minesweepers are not actually new ship classes. In my screenies I have destroyers that can both lay and sweep mines for simplicity, but as @Archangel85 pointed out earlier “I am probably going to have a ton of different destroyer designs”... anyways, details on the designer is for a future diary when it is done, but hopefully it helps explain some stuff in the proper context.

Mines are unlocked from techs and require ship designs fitted to deploy them. Destroyers and light cruisers can do this, as well as submarines with the correct tech (excellent if you as Germany want to make things even more dangerous for the British at a lower risk to yourself). Mines can also be dropped from the air with later game techs. Both of these unlock new missions for navies and airwings.
index.php


Mines can be made better and better through research. You start off with Contact Mines to unlock them. Then their destructive power is improved with Magnetic and Acoustic mine techs and finally with Pressure mines. At the bottom (heh) you also see two techs for submarine mine laying. The first is just the basic ability, while the second improves efficiency a lot by allowing mines to be deployed through torpedo tubes, thus no longer requiring you to design specialized minelaying submarines.

To get rid of mines you need minesweeper capable ships. This unlocks the naval mission to sweep mines and will slowly work at clearing areas. Minesweepers are also nice to include in your fleets as they will then be assumed to travel ahead of the fleet and reduce the impact of mines on them. I suspect a good design combo will be anti-air and sweeper on screen ships to be your passive defense when in enemy waters.
index.php


There is also a passive “degaussing” technology that can be researched after Magnetic Mines. This was employed during WW2 to reduce the magnetic signature of ships and thus make them less likely to set off mines.

It is also possible to sweep mines from the air, but this is a late game, expensive technology and unlocks a new air mission for bombers. This was something that was done sparingly and in shallow waters, but for example was successfully done to evacuate the Dutch royal family to Britain.

What do mines exactly do then? Well they blow stuff up! Their explosive results are shown on map as accident reports, and there is a new tab too under the Naval Losses statistics interface if you want to dig into details. As ships operate or move through a zone they will risk running into mines. This can lead both to minor damage as well as outright sinkings. The best ways to avoid this is to make sure the area is swept free of mines, but as mentioned above, having your ships travel with sweeping capable ships makes it safer for all.

index.php

This is not all through, mines have several passive effects.

Naval superiority - Having mines in an area helps amplify the effects of your navy (after all they can concentrate more effectively knowing where the mine fields are). This can be seen in our new naval area screen, which is the naval equivalent of the state view:
index.php


Other than that and blowing ships up mines will slow down enemy ships (since they need to be more careful) and increases the invasion penalty to coastal area. So mines are both good offensively and defensively.

index.php


Mines can only be laid while at war and will just go away once a nation is completely at peace. You always know how much mines there are in an area, so you know how to deal with them and take them into account. That means that with the new naval access controls you can tell your ships and convoys to avoid heavily mined areas, but of course this may make it a lot more predictable for your enemies where to hunt. Having an advantage in the encryption-decryption war will also add a certain amount of passive defense against mine effects as you may have some information about their positioning.

See you all next week for more Man the Guns info!
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
It would be far more handy for small nations if you instead had a limited number of naval nodes you can effectively mine, AND you can do that during peacetime. By the time actual war starts, most small navies will just be mothballed for good.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,558
Still in doubt if all those naval changes will make me bother with ships at all, or whether I'll still just put starting shipyards on destroyer 1 and proceed to build 5 million naval bombers. Anyone who played some longer games that go past 1944 knows all well that navy is nearly irrelevant because AI just has stack of 1000 bombers in every area.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Naval bombers are indeed another issue and one that is as much of an elephant in the room as what-ship-with-what-doctrine-is-just-plain-better-than-all-alternatives when it comes to the naval game and the problem of its purely attritional nature. It might honestly be better to axe naval bombing and airplanes on the sea entirely (aside from carrier wings obviously) until a solid naval warfare foundation is built and then figure out how naval bombers and air superiority would fit into that.

Mines crippled Japan from overseas supplies in 1945 so most majors employed them en masse.
I was mostly thinking of it in terms of force multiplier potential for smaller countries who basically just don't do anything with navies at the moment. Referring to earlier, mines and coastal artillery would seem like much more useful things for the naval gameplay to shift away from an attrition-only model to something where even small countries can potentially at the very least defend their coastline effectively.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
'MURRIKA
Hello, and welcome back to another dev diary! Today we are going to talk about Freedom. Freedom from Fear. Freedom from Want. Freedom from having to vote for a presidential candidate every four years.


The vanilla US focus tree offered some interesting alternate-history scenarios, but if you wanted to play historical, you pretty much sat around doing very little until the war started. Part of this is the fundamental design problem of the US in a historical grand-strategy game: if we allow the US to freely enter the war when it has even a fraction of its historical economy, the Axis never makes it into Paris and the war ends in 1940. If we restrict the US from entering the war freely until its historical date, the US player sits around until late 1941 doing very little (there is a reason why my usual go-to scenario in HoI2 and HoI3 was “Play France until you lose, then switch to the US”).


index.php



So one of the goals we had for this rework was to give the player a bit more stuff to actually do during the lead-up to the war. Making the path out of the depression a little more involved was an obvious place to start. Instead of a single national spirit, it is now three levels that give a smoother curve out of the depression. But instead of just taking three focuses in a row to do what could previously be done in one, we wanted the player to have to work a lot more to get out of the depression.


Enter the script-based Congress Mechanic. The Congress mechanic is - for now - unique to the US and simulates the shifting majorities in both houses of Congress. It ties into a lot of things that we will get into in a bit. But on a fundamental level, taking the focuses that reduce the penalties from the great depression will require you to have a majority in both houses, but will also reduce your support once you have taken it to simulate members of Congress who voted for the proposal being unwilling to support you further without getting something in return.


index.php



You can gain and lose support from random events as well as midterm and presidential elections. Generally speaking, going with the incumbent means you are more likely to lose support in Congress in the election, and if the situation is particularly dire, going with the challenger will flip support and opposition. Beyond this, a number of decisions allow you to gain support in congress, from simple lobbying to bribing members of Congress by investing in their constituencies to just regularly bribing them.


index.php



Besides getting out of the depression, you’ll also need to get Congress to sign off on the Selective Service Act, which is the gatekeeper focus of the army modernization branch, and the Two Ocean Navy Act, which is the gatekeeper focus for the naval branch. The amount of support you need depends on your war support (in general, you can assume that every focus with “Act” somewhere in its title ties into the Congress mechanic).


Another aspect we wanted to add was to give the US player a choice to become more active in the world earlier. As I said above, that comes with host of issues. We want it to be a viable option, but not a no-brainer. This means that there will be a number of restrictions in the “Limited Intervention” branch. First, you’ll have to have enough support in Congress to take the focus (and a lack of war support means that quite a few member of Congress will break ranks over it). Afterwards, you will have to choose between focusing your efforts on preparing to intervene in Europe or in Asia. Taking either of these focuses unlocks a number of decisions to try and build public support for an intervention. Many of these decisions are tied to events around the world - here the US is protesting the Anschluss.


index.php



However, there is only a small window to utilize these events. Each decision adds something that is internally called an “intervention strike” as in “three strikes and you’re out”, except in this case it’s “three strikes and we start bombing”. A generic decision allows to build support against a target if they do not have specific decisions associated with them. Finally, once a country has two strikes against them, you can petition congress to sanction an intervention, which will again require significant support (it is easier to gain a wargoal against a country that is at war, and easier still if they are in an aggressive war).


This will likely make it harder for you to pursue your other goals - so if you want to intervene in Europe on behalf of the Allies, you will most likely have to forego economic reforms, at least for a while.


The intervention mandates are also used to allow the US to intervene in the Americas if someone violates the Monroe doctrine.


Intervention in general is something you can prepare a lot better now by using war plans. Completing the focuses unlocks a decision to execute the corresponding war plan and gain a temporary bonus against a country, along with some other temporary bonuses.


index.php



Of course, by this point a statistical majority of you might wonder why you even bother with all this busy-work, bribing senators, cutting deals with representatives, when there is a world to be won. As promised, we also wanted to add proper alternate ideology branches for the US. As we said many months ago in the Dev Diary about South Africa, we also look to try and open up new areas of the map for warfare, to allow you to fight in different areas than trudging across the same old parts of Europe.


So we wanted to have a nice big Civil War in the US. We want tank battles south of Chicago. Naval landings in Florida. A brutal slog across the Rocky Mountains. So we decided to not just put in one civil war but two! That’s a whole 100% MORE CIVIL WAR!


You’ll have to fight a civil war in either of the alternate ideology branches. For the curious: the branches straight down from the WPA and Adjusted Compensation Act are democratic ideology branches and will be part of the free update, the branches starting with Suspend the Prosecution and America First will be part of the DLC.


In the left branch, appropriately enough, you soften up your stance towards the communists. You can do this even if you don’t intend to go fully communist, as it opens up new ways of gaining support in Congress. If you do decide to be more radical, you can desegregate the American society, which will trigger protests from the usual suspects. The protests by themselves don’t do anything, but if you decide to push harder towards communism, the protests will intensify and eventually spill over. The Unions Representation Act is another such trigger that will cause protests.


index.php



Before the civil war breaks out, there is a “Point of No Return” after which it is merely a question of time until hostilities start. In the time between the Point of No Return and the actual start of the war, you’ll get a number of events telling you how the situation develops. These events have actual effects on how your position is like at the start of the war.


For example, if an event tells you that a state has mobilized the national guard, the revolter gets a fully-equipped and quite capable division when the war starts. These events aren’t intended to make the difference between winning and losing but to give the war a bit more flavor.


Once the war starts in the communist branch, it is not quite like a regular civil war. Instead of the country and the military splitting in half, it spawns a new tag (CSA). This allows us to do a few things, like removing CSA territories as cores for the US (which means that they, for example, create resistance when conquered into). Depending on how far down you’ve gone in the communist branch, a part of the country might also declare its neutrality during the war. You can still interact with this part through decisions, but so can the other side.


index.php



Where in other countries, a civil war is something we must be very careful with to ensure that the country is not completely crippled by the time the real war starts, here, we want ACWII to be “the war” the US gets into and which merges into the greater World War. So there are limited objectives for you after you have won the American Theater of World War II, but you can push decolonization in Asia and intervene in the Chinese Civil War, while also working to reintegrate the breakaway states.


The Civil War in the fascist branch works along similar lines. You also get a branch leading down from America First that you can use even if you don’t want to go full fascist - a sort of flirting with fascism, allowing you, for example, to investigate the opposition through the House Committee of Un-American Activities. The Voter Registration Act ensures a comfortable majority in every election, but triggers a wave of protests.


If you decide to push even further and publicly ally with the Silver Legion, you will trigger additional protests that put the country on the road to civil war. Like in the communist branch, a number of events determine what the starting position is, but the roles are reversed. Where in the communist branch, a part of the country tries to break away, in the fascist branch the country revolts against your leadership and tries to oust you from power, forcing you to fall back into a powerbase you set up in advance (you set up a powerbase in advance, right?). Parts of the country will declare in support or in opposition, leading to different front lines.


With much of the professional military on the other side, you’ll have to rely on hastily-raised militias to hold the line until you can get back on your feet. You might have to cut some deals and appeal to the locals to get them to accept that you are on their side.


index.php



Once you have won that war, you are left with a US that is now safely fascist, which means that you are ideally poised to conquer the rest of the world. So we decided we might as well give you the focus tree to do just that. The War Powers Act lessens the stability impact of being in a war, and you can take your first steps abroad as you politely ask Canada to give you the territory between you and the Alaskan border (the event may or may not be called “Vancouver Or War!”) and politely ask Cuba to please stop being independent.


You continue in this fashion until at last you demand global hegemony and give all other majors an ultimatum to either become puppets or go to war. Along the way, you will most likely have gobbled up all the small countries that otherwise make conquering the world such a pain.


That is all for today. Next week we will be back with another look into the naval side of things.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
Strangely, Hearts of Iron IV is now the most popular Paradox games according to steamcharts and daily players, with 13k players monthly for 6 months now and steadily growing audience. CK2 had 5 k for years, EUIV had a steady 11k. Stellaris had spikes with patches it seems but still a stable growing base. But HoIIV, an outsider even by Paradox standarts suddenly became a top dog. It seems there is a constant demand for WWII grand strategies and people are not satisfied with Kalypso and Slitherine-level shovelware.
 

LizardWizard

Prophet
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
1,013
I'd say partly that has more to do with multiplayer accessibility and established mods that also work in multi. Good luck playing a stable game of CK2 without dsync every 10 minutes

Stellaris also seems to be selling better despite having lower daily avg. Which makes sense as most sane people would never touch vanilla Stellaris and are forced to use hundreds tiny mods that fix the game
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
My long fucking review autistic rant of about the game.

It is getting better with new DLC's and patches, but it's still fucked up in so many aspects that I feel hopeless to describe them all. I'll wait for Naval Combat which is shit RN, maybe they'll fix it, but short history of it - originally you spammed CL's, now you spam BB's and CV's with some screens only so you don't get wrecked by subs(then again ariplanes should wreck subs anyway). The tech tree causes most nations to be played similarly - first techs in 1936 should be industry, electronics and maybe construction(if not then perhaps fighters or some doctrine). You also kind of move in waves with it. However seeing the disaster that was the tech tree of HoI3 and remembering HoI2 as not exactly good example of it brilliance(the little I remember from HoI was that tech was the dumbest part of the system - iirc you could for example choice the caliber of gun you want to put on your tanks, cool, isn't it? except price of armoured division in PP's was the same for all of them and if you undergunned yourself you got smaller DMG, so there was no point to it). This is the best tech system as of now, except it's still kinda shit.

Since I've used my autism to compare the land doctrines, I'll also add some comments about them:
  • GBP is better than it seems, however only the assault branch is actually good. Infiltration is Japanse-only tree and you can argue quite decently that even they would do far better with Superior Firepower or Mass Assault(both branches).
  • if you're going for mobile warfare pick the tank branch unless you want to make superfast light tank divisions
  • Superior firepower branches are very one-sided, airland battle should be only taken if you want to go really tank-heavy(especially if you want to go for heavy tanks) and dispersed support generally is kinda poo for anybody but small nations who are bound to have leg infantry mostly army but can afford building enough artillery to get decent amount of them in line
  • while multiplayer pros seem to ignore the deep battle branch from mass assault doctrine it is quite decent - second only to mobile warfare->modern blitzkrieg in combat tactics, for instance.
Overall the viability goes as follows:

GBP-Assault - majority of nations in the game, however the doctrine kinda goes off the rails once you get to fighting in Russia/asia(you will rarely have time to fully plan your attacks)
GBP-Infiltration - Japan and perhaps some Asian countries that can't really afford to do Mass Warfare, so maybe Siam and Australia?
Superior Firepower-dispersed support-shock and awe - if you want infantry+artillery army
Superior Firepower-flexible support-shock and awe - practically every nation in the game
Superior Firepower-dispersed support-airland - nobody
Superior firepower-flexible support-airland - Germany, the US, maybe Soviets, concentrate on heavy tanks to utilize it the best
Mass assault-mass mobilisation - if you have to defend and only defend with infantry-heavy army. So for example China, which in MP allegedly exists only so Japan can't annoy the others will do very well with it
Mass-assault-deep battle - Japan, the USSR, Raj, possibly even Germany, if you manage to somehow unify China early then obviously Chinese too - lots of manpower and decent industry will be needed
Mobile warfare-motorized - if yo uwant to make super fast light tank divisions and dominate early game then it's good - France, Germany, Great Britain and Italy can easily use it
Mobile warfare-Blitzkrieg - if you care more about long term and have relatively stronger industry, Germany, the US, Great Britain, USSR are probably all viable picks

The choice between desperate defense and modern blitzkrieg is situational for obvious reasons, if you're going for motorized infantry though you probably want to win the war before you have to get desperate defense, otherwise the biggest advantage of the tree - massive amounts of breakthrough for armour will just pass by.

Overall outside of infiltration that's not as bad as I make it out to be(you get kinda shitty tactics and majority of bonuses you get that you wouldn't get in better version in assault branch are very indirect) it is roughly balanced and you can feel that you actually have to choose between them based on the conditions in which your nation is rather than just the shit there was in HoI2 where Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower likes were evidently superior to everything else.

Since I've touched on land combat related stuff - how does it work? I have mixed feelings. At one side mopup is now no longer the boring part of the game, it goes fast and smooth, on the other you still have to micromanage when you want to achieve something(which is good) but it seems that the AI isn't. AI seems to be drawing a big long arrow going straight to your capital and pressing start most of the time. This allows you to turtle up like crazy cunt and just wait for the enemy to get his equipment levels down and the enemy will get the bait. However the AI is starting performing decent naval invasions as of later expansions and patches(they never paradrop), the artillery primacy has eneded and they won't rush your level 10 fortresses in the mountains anymore, but it lacks the ability to formulate more strategic movements, and I have a feeling it's never going to get to that point. So it is getting better but it's still shit. They are clueless in North Africa especially.
Air war is controllable now, so I think it's a plus - sure ever since waking the tiger it seems to matter much, much, much more than it used to and I'd say it's too important now but it's a matter of adding some % here and subtracting some % there, not some problem with the system itself.
Diplomacy, internal politics and peace conferences are trash but they always were. The biggest gripe is with equipment designers - aircraft ones specifically. Every other company will give you all around buffs to various equipment types. Pacific fleet designer will increase range of everything from DD's to CV's, Heavy tank designer will give armour and hard attack etc. etc. Airplane companies meanwhile make only one type of airplane and eventually its carrier variant better. Sure way to discourage people from using more than one fighter and one bomber type.
Production however is all around awesome, even though I was skeptical to the way they've handled resources at first.
Interface is okay at times and horrible at others. One thing I absolutely despise is that when you click on an unit in given province, you select all of them in given stack, rather than selecting one of them and then cycling between them with next mouse clicks which makes direct control harder for no reason.

Overall the game is imo an improvement over HoI3 in all aspects, but land warfare and even land warfare isn't that much worse if it wasn't for the disastrous AI. Now the big thing is - combat is the focus of HoI and as such having land combat that doesn't really work for whatever reasons is a big problem.



As for mods I've played OWB, TGW and Kaiserreich and they're... okay. Kaiserreich has a big advantage of having its scenario that lends itself better to being a videogame(all the major factions are more balanced so to speak, although allies seem kinda weak), also Savinkov is the only Vozhd Russia needs. OBW got me angry because I don't understand the scripts around battle for Hoover Dam, otherwise I like the fact that they wanted to change technology system into something different. TGW is shit
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
The general aircraft company problem is really just that having a billion million fighters and heavy fighters (depends really on how long you need the planes to fly) is what's the bedrock foundation of any kind of air force, having better bombers is never comparable to having better fighters because without fighters the bombers won't be doing shit.


The thing with TGW I feel is really just that in many ways the mod boils down to an tech+factory race because attack is simply out of question a lot of the time except against vastly inferior opposition. Another problem is that the Russian exit from the war is handled in a way that's a total goddamn mess and because there's no Russian Civil War it ends up having little of interest happening afterwards. What the mod would really need IMO is having some sort of war exhaustion mechanic for eventually just ending the war on some manner of terms instead of grinding on and on until total defeat and peace conference system rearing its ugly head.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
The general aircraft company problem is really just that having a billion million fighters and heavy fighters (depends really on how long you need the planes to fly) is what's the bedrock foundation of any kind of air force, having better bombers is never comparable to having better fighters because without fighters the bombers won't be doing shit.
That's kinda realistic. Maybe they should add mission for fighters that makes them escort bombers so while they don't fight to get air superiority, they're allowing some amount of bombers to perform their mission, but that's still kinda shit idea. Either way it's dumb.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
DD: Docks rework
Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
index.php


It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

index.php


Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
index.php

If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

index.php


“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
Still no info about concrete mechanical changes to naval combat, no info about what will they do with aircraft spam either.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
DD: Amphibious crap
Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

index.php


For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

index.php



These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

index.php



Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
index.php

index.php

index.php

index.php


The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

index.php

index.php


Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
index.php


The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
index.php


That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
Light tanks can work if you're poor, in asia or want maximum speed(with mobile warfare-motorization of infantry or whatever, left branch).
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Light tanks can work if you're poor, in asia or want maximum speed(with mobile warfare-motorization of infantry or whatever, left branch).
If I'm playing as a factory poor country, I'd probably focus on artillery instead. Light tanks aren't THAT much cheaper than mediums after all.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom