Heroes 5 vs Disciples

[Kthan75]

I was thinking about starting another debate...
I saw the latest Heroes V pictures http://www.mightandmagicgame.com and I'm a little worried. A couple of the pictures are clearly from a battle. I don't see any number indicating that those are 73 archers fighting 34 devil... thingies (or whatever those are). I don't see any grid/movement shadow/something like that. This reminds me of Disciples. While there is nothing wrong with that game, I actually liked it(the one campaign that I played), but Disciples != Heroes. What I liked about Heroes was that I could create a large army and moving the units on the battlefield implied some serious tactics, something that Disciples doesn't have.
Of course, it's still too early too tell from only a few screenshots, but what it looks like to me right now is that you can only have one unit of a type (you can move them, however). Also, I'm not sure there is a difference between the general map and the battlefield anymore.
I'm not rejecting these ideas entirely, I just hope they make a good game that people will be playing for years to come, like HOMM3.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Let's see...

Heroes 5 is being developed by Nival
Disciples 3 is being developed by Mistland

The choice is simple.

 

[xemous]

Any X devs working on Disciples 3?

 

[PennyAnte]

Those screens worried me too at first. I thought "please don't turn HoMM from an Army game into a squad game." Then it struck me that in HoMM your units (73 archers or whatever) were just single stacks anyway, moved as such. So maybe it won't be so bad.

The think about multiple units in one stack, though, is that it lets players who have conquered more cities make their armies more powerful by pouring in more units. Certainly, that's one way you "won." If HoMM 5 turns every battle into a series of even squad-on-squad fights, that's not too good.

We'll have to see.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

Actually to be exact, those latest screens really do start to worry me, but not because HV looks like Disciples, but rather because they bear a striking resemblance to ... Etherlords. But I'll have to wait & see if the resemblance is only on the surface (only looks like Etherlords) or it does play a lot like Etherlords.

As far as Disciples 3 goes, I don't care anymore. Disciples 2 The Dark Prophesy was one of the greatest game I have ever played, but the subsequent expansions (especially the Rise of the Elves mishappening that I would not call a game, much less a Disciples one) made only a bad impression on me. On top of that Strategy First (Why don't they just declear bancrupsy together with Interplay, My God!) has delegated the right to both Jagged Alliance and Disciples to a lessthan3rd grade developer (I got absolutely nothing against the people for being russians, but I have rather lot agiainst them ruining the games we love), namely mIST Land or whatever they are called. The immediate result - JA3D. What is next? - real time Disciples 3D? or a straight Disciples 3D RTS? If such a thing is announced, lesst being in development, I am commiting a suicide.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

What is next? - real time Disciples 3D? or a straight Disciples 3D RTS? If such a thing is announced, lesst being in development, I am commiting a suicide.

You know, I wouldn't want to see Disciples real time either, but I'd be willing to live with it if I got to see a suicide because of it. HAHAHHAHAHA.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

I said I was going to commit a suicide, but who has said it was going to be me that is going to be suicided?

 

[Fez]

People would probably pay you money for you to talk to and treat them like that.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

Fez, now I have to suicide you too - you revealed my ultimate plan to richdom.

 

[Fez]

It'll be worth it if you talk dirty while you do it.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

You know I can talk dirty while I do it - what you take me for? Blonde? Stupid Blonde?

 

[obediah]

There's seems to be a common strategy of releasing a lot of UI-less screenshots to show how pretty a game is, then dumping some UI-shots at later points. I guess this makes sense in that UI's are probably fluid until late in development. I'm sure the marketing drive to just have pretty pikture instead of scary numbers is also there.

I liked Silent Storm pretty well, but nothing else in either of the pedigrees get's me excited. I'm not sure I can even muster the interest to 'wait and see'. So maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when one of these comes out.

 

[Balor]

Well, see this and get exited:
http://membres.lycos.fr/mike447a/homm5_ ... 052005.mpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/michel447a/homm ... 052005.mpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/michel447a/homm ... 052005.mpg
Third one (from combat) shows:
1. Creatures are still 'stacks'.
2. Graphics roxx.
3. Animation roxx^3.
Of course, it's still a year until the release... and one may never know how the 'global' gameplay will turn out... but so far, it looks incredibly promising.

 

[Deacdo]

The Disciples games didn't have enough depth to capture my attention for long. The HOMM games were like that, too, but that was more because of the rehashes...the gameplay style is great as long as Nival adds a bit of depth to the combat system.

As with the Warlords franchise, I would have been more than happy to give Disciples another try if they implemented a good TBed tactical combat system.

 

[Gwendo]

The game is still in early development. Many feature weren't implemented. I've read an E3 report, where they were toldthat the grid will be implemented. Also their description of the demo included the information that there are stacks and the numbers appear next to each creature.

And remember: right now the game wants to call attention, so the screenshot were made for that. I guess right now they are more concerned about showing off the graphics. Specially because many features weren't implemented yet, to show them off.

 

[Balor]

Logical. Expecially, since what they CAN show off, is pretty damn good.

 

[Atrokkus]

Dunno about Homm5 and new disciples, but I know for sure that disciples is but a poser compared to the great strategy Homm3 (4 is utter failure). In every aspect, really. Well, except gfx, but hell: WHO NEEDS COOL GFX IN TURNBASED STRATEGIES, HUH?

 

[Sol Invictus]

I do. I see no reason why turn based strategy games have to have the aural and visual equivalent of dog shit.

 

[Balor]

Btw, more about Heroes 5 - they are making it much more like 3rd then 4th ones.
Not broken - don't fix it?
Not bad approach.

 

[Atrokkus]

I do. I see no reason why turn based strategy games have to have the aural and visual equivalent of dog shit.

Then play those shallow Disciples.
See, i'm not against good graphics, i'm all for it, but when teh graphics are valued higher than actual gameplay and strateginess - it's a noobish approach. It's a turn-based strategy, not FPS.

Plus, Heroes 3 had neat design and quite elaborated graphics.

I wish that HoMM5 would be more like HoMM3, but with good graphics.

 

[Gwendo]

Disciples = shit.

Anyway, the developers said that HoM&M5 is more related with the HoM&M2 and 3. (Which is good, in my opinion, being HoM&M2 the most memorable for me.)

 

[Atrokkus]

HoMM 3 is the best in terms of balance and general grip.
It's still widely spread.
There are many homm3 tourneys.
Homm4 was utter crap and serious players don't even consider it HoMM at all.

 

[magerette]

Have any of you HOMM5 newswatchers caught anything about a map editor for the new game? To my mind, it was a major strength. (In fact, I'm still making, playing and downloading fan maps for a game whose entire company is defunct.)
I haven't noticed anything in the previews I've read that mentioned it.

 

[Sol Invictus]

It should be a given.

 

[LlamaGod]

Heroes 3 and Disciples 2 are two of my more favorite games. Their sequels though, HOMM5 will be far greater then 3.

Not just because of the developers, but HOMM5 seems like more of a serious effort then Disciples 3 does (even if nothing has really been said about it, it just doesnt seem like its really big project to them).

Also, HOMM5 looks to be pushing the series and gameplay more, I doubt Disciples 3 will be anything more then Disciples 2 with different maps and 3D graphics.