Heroes 5 vs Disciples

[Talorc]

Also, HOMM5 looks to be pushing the series and gameplay more, I doubt Disciples 3 will be anything more then Disciples 2 with different maps and 3D graphics.

Actually, based upon what happened with Mistland and the Jagged Alliance licence, Disciples 3 will be a "non linear, mission based" Fantasy Railroad building simulator. Which they are halfway through coding, and have not even shown to their publisher yet.

Plus they will throw a HUUUGE stinky fit when the publisher points out to them that they asked them to make Discpiples 3, not Railroad Tycoon vs Stronghold.

 

[Atrokkus]

I still don't give a damn about Disciples... For me, they are nothing compared to HoMM3 (aside from gfx, of course, but that's irrelevant to such genre).

 

[Lady Armageddona]

You are an idiot? Has anyone told you that?
What Disciples (2) had that Heroes 3 doesn't is 1) great story, 2) better setting, 3) great hand drawn art. Besides, I liked it better. Has your beloved (and mine, I admit, though you are still an idiot for thinking that Heroes 4 is an utter failure) got that, huh?

As far as Heroes 4 goes, Heroes 4 was the product of a brain dead publisher trying to milk the licence and rushing the game out, laying off all of the people that worked on it, and then making 2 so called expansions that offered nothing more than several dozens of new maps, and no further improvements to the game, which were necessary for its own good. Besides, some die hard Heroes 3 fans that have been living in a cave/antartica/deserted island/the moon playing this game ONLY, most of the GOOD gameplay decisions that were implemented in Heroes 4 (among which are, heroes participating actively in combat, the skill system, and especially the magic system that emphasized on skill rather than what resources one had, the instantanious reliatation as opposed to H3's who strikes first, and the creature choises, remotely remiscent of Disciples) would never again appear in the series because of stupid people who have undegone lobotomy LIKE YOU.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Heroes actively participating in combat was undeniably the worst 'innovation' HOMM4 had to offer. All it did was break up the balance between units (Heroes were always better) and made it almost impossible to balance the game properly, because not only did units have to be balanced against each other, but heroes too.

 

[Atrokkus]

Lady Armageddona. yeah I love you too.

Anyway, here we must differentiate personal preferences and objective facts.
It's stupid and pointless to argue on personal preferences.

But there is an objective fact that HoMM3 is more suited for professional, heavily-strategic gaming, because it's more balanced, and the overall principle is much smarter and logical than in Disciples or homm4.

 

[Fez]

I still like the AoW games.

Lady Armageddona, you are no lady.

 

[Shagnak]

Lady Armageddona, you are no lady.

Of course she isn't.
It's a proven fact that all females on the internet are sweaty fat balding males.

 

[magerette]

I beg your pardon. I have all my hair.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

Heroes actively participating in combat was undeniably the worst 'innovation' HOMM4 had to offer. All it did was break up the balance between units (Heroes were always better) and made it almost impossible to balance the game properly, because not only did units have to be balanced against each other, but heroes too.

Better or worse is not the case here, since if the game was allowed a normal life span it would have been balanced out. And I ain't speaking about Blizz-game lifespan, though it deserves it. It wasn't, therefore you have no points to provide for it being worse/worst innovation, as I cannot provide for it being good/best. But we agree that it was an innovation, and therefore it should be credited at least that. And anyway, Nival did develop the idea behind it quite nice, to what I read on previews and interviews and so on.

The biggest downfall of H4 was that all the dumb fuck die hard fans of H3 wanted just another H3 with only better grafics, or even not that. Just more of the same. H4 did not provide more of the same, the developers decided to NOT just make the same game ... again as is the case with H1-H2-H3, which are basically one game with little cosmetic changes. They decided to make something new.

Obviously that was a mistake on their part.

 

[LlamaGod]

Disciples 2 isnt a total trash heap, it just has a different play style. Instead of focusing on one big army, you make little combos and stuff.

D2 is all about attack strategy instead movement + attack.

HOMM3 is deeper strategically but just has a different focus.

You plan and make decisions alot differently in both games.

HOMM3 fans do fear change, so I think thats why alot are all uppity about HOMM4 and Disciples 2. HOMM4 I disliked because of imbalances, not because of changes.

Also, Disciples 2 setting, story and campaigns kick the shit out of HOMM3's generic fantasy-o-rama.

 

[Atrokkus]

Also, Disciples 2 setting, story and campaigns kick the shit out of HOMM3's generic fantasy-o-rama.

It's not very relevant in a strategy-game, you know.
I didn't even play HOMM campaign.

Disciples 2 isnt a total trash heap, it just has a different play style. Instead of focusing on one big army, you make little combos and stuff.

It's simplified, so that it would suit for as many people as possible. A typical marketing move. It reminds me of the same shit happening in RPG-industry.

The biggest downfall of H4 was that all the dumb fuck die hard fans of H3 wanted just another H3 with only better grafics, or even not that.

They wanted it for a reason, yaknow.

They decided to make something new.

The idea of making something new is GOOD, don't get me wrong.
But fact is that they failed in that undertaking.

HOMM3 fans do fear change, so I think thats why alot are all uppity about HOMM4 and Disciples 2.

Again, they do not fear change as it is. They fear bad changes, they fear that lolly-pop simplifying for the sake of wider audience.
And the Disciples embodied exactly that principle: they had cool, memorable graphics, simplified combat mode and many other lil bits that made it into some child toy, and not a solid strategy title.

There are NO serious tournaments on Disciples, never were.
And there ARE tourneys on HoMM3 even NOW. And they are quite popular among true fans of this kind of simple, and yet so geniously made strategy.
Just like people love StarCraft more than any other RTS-titles, because although it looks simple and primitive, but it holds much more depth in terms of gameplay and strategy.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

Whatever you say, mEtaLL1x, but I still prefer that a game has better story and setting and campaigns than almost everything else, including grafics, and gameplay. That's why I like Disciples better and you are a retarted fanboy.

PS - the StarCraft comparison to HoMM3 is inconsistent. SC had great story, setting and campaigns, but as a gameplay-wise, it was plain horrible. Same goes for WC3. If I wanted a solid RTS title, I would play Warlords BattleCry.

PPS - Balance is not a revelent element in a game, since it is not objective. Therefore, while you thing whatever is balanced, other would largely disagree. Biggest example, is that while I think that the Conflux in HoMM3 is great, and balanced out nicely against the other towns, most HoMM3 players dislike it, and do not play it.

PPPS - and speaking of the changes and how retarted the whole fanboyish H3 comunity is, should I remind you of the Forge? Now that was going to be one hell of a cool town, but retarted people like you ditched it.

 

[Atrokkus]

No sense in further arguement, Armageddona. It's all matter of taste.

Although you can't argue the balance and strategy-mechanic charcteristics, and HoMM3 and StarCraft prevailance in it. You can love it, you can hate it, but it doesn't change the picture.

(And yes, I'm a hardcore fan of StarCraft, and I love its story and setting, as well as totally gripping gameplay)

 

[Fez]

If gameplay is less important than the story, wouldn't you be better off reading a book or watching a DVD?

 

[Gwendo]

That's why I like Disciples better and you are a retarted fanboy.

Who's behaving like one?

I love HoM&M. I hate disciples. Played first map and unistalled the game. The game really sucks.

(And notice that I'm not calling you names, just because you like what I hate, and you hate what I love. )

 

[Gwendo]

BTW, try this Disciples/HoM&M type game: http://www.discordtimes.com/

 

[Lady Armageddona]

That's why I like Disciples better and you are a retarted fanboy.

Who's behaving like one?

I love HoM&M. I hate disciples. Played first map and unistalled the game. The game really sucks.

(And notice that I'm not calling you names, just because you like what I hate, and you hate what I love. )

Saying that I hate HoMM because I like it better than Disiples is a sure sign of you being retarded as well, you know. If you had read a few post back, it would have become clear that I like HoMM as well, and I just like Disciples better.

Anyway, this whole argument, HoMM vs Disciples is retarted in it entire self. Age of Wonders is way better and more balanced than both of them.

 

[LlamaGod]

Again, they do not fear change as it is. They fear bad changes, they fear that lolly-pop simplifying for the sake of wider audience.
And the Disciples embodied exactly that principle: they had cool, memorable graphics, simplified combat mode and many other lil bits that made it into some child toy, and not a solid strategy title./quote]

First, how far did you play into Disciples 2? Dont tell me you're like Mr. 'Played the tutorial map and ran away'.

You do have to make strategic decisions in it, its just a different kind then HOMM3 and a few less then HOMM3 (mostly unit choice wise).

Disciples 2 isnt a bad game at all, it's just alot different from HOMM3. All the HOMM3 fanboys dont like it because of that and just call it 'dumbed down' as an excuse.

 

[Gwendo]

That's why I like Disciples better and you are a retarted fanboy.

(And notice that I'm not calling you names, just because you like what I hate, and you hate what I love. )

Saying that I hate HoMM because I like it better than Disiples is a sure sign of you being retarded as well, you know. If you had read a few post back, it would have become clear that I like HoMM as well, and I just like Disciples better.

Hmm... And who said you hate HoM&M? Read carefully what I said above.

Gee, how ironic... You're calling others retarded... :twisted:

 

[Lady Armageddona]

I call everybody retarted and stupid dumbfucks. At least aroun here, other places I manage to restrain myself, but there should be a place where I can blow my head off freely.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Master of Magic beats the shit out of all these games.