Heroes of Might & Magic 4 Defense Thread

[Lacrymas]

Isn't that how usually HoMM single-player campaigns go? You have to be on top of your game from the beginning or the AI is going to amass too many creatures. Not to mention the "odds stacked against you" thing, which usually means the enemies have more castles than you or they somehow cheat and get more creatures. You don't really have time to explore too much, you should explore with your secondary heroes, so your main guy can lead the charge fast.

 

[Maculo]

To an extent, yes, but I did not remember it being this strict so many turns in. In this Campaign, the number of units were low, which required reliance on the hero (a staple). I liked it until the AI somehow pumped out 40 ogres and 90 harpies. Those numbers just surprised me, and it single handedly my ruined my strategy.

 

[Lacrymas]

I found it beneficial to pump Combat and Archery on pretty much all heroes, they become insanely OP and can take on entire armies by themselves when they get Grandmaster Archery. I even remember rushing a few maps with only heroes during the Life campaign like that. It feels kind of like cheating, not gonna lie. It's also worth mentioning that some advanced classes are more powerful than others, so be mindful when choosing a secondary skill.

 

[Maculo]

With the Might campaign, my strategy was to pump Combat/Melee and spam Potion of Immortality. This worked well, until I hit the main army. The 40 ogres practically one-shotted my hero, and the harpies either pecked at the hero beforehand or at the remainder of my army. Everything was going according to plan until I hit that stack.

I also like making slightly inefficient armies/units work. For instance, I know Angel is the clear T4 winner for Haven, but I love how much damage the Cavalier can do with the charge bonus.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, it's usually not a good idea to go for melee on heroes because big stacks will wreck them, archery does the same thing, but better. Unless the cyclops (I assume that's what you mean? Ogres are mages, they have a powerful melee attack, but they can't attack at range, though, so this doesn't apply to them) are one-shotting you with their rock throw, but they shouldn't because they do very low damage at that range, while your hero does full damage twice with Grandmaster Archery.

 

[Maculo]

I finally bested the enemy stack and took his city. This time, I did a better job keeping my Centaur and hero alive. The Centaur proved to be the MVP in that fight. Also, I was thinking of the Ogre Mage (that can cast Bloodlust). I find those things slow, but with a lot of HP and decent attack. 40 of them were a pain.

Maybe I got lucky, because last night those Ogre Mages were hitting hard.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, yeah, basically your one mistake is going melee instead of archery and you had an unreasonably hard time with that mission because of it. Try to grab Archery ASAP next time you level up.

Speaking of balance - has anyone tried the Equilibris mod? Is it good?

 

[Maculo]

I have Equilibris installed already, because it allegedly contained bug fixes and AI improvements. Reading the change log, many of the changes do make sense (nerfing Resurrection, Angels, etc). Plus, some weaker units got some love (Cavalier, Ogre Mage, etc).

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm more afraid of whether it botches the single-player campaign balance. Maybe make some missions impossible, like the Order campaign, because it probably nerfs genies which are tremendously overpowered, but the Order campaign might have been balanced with the intention that you'll spam the OP genies, making it impossible with the gimped ones.

 

[Maculo]

I don't recall changes to Genies, although it did buff Ogre Magi (more spells, better stats), which definitely made the first Might mission harder.

Edit: Here is the change log: https://equilibris.celestialheavens.com/eng/changes.html

For Order, I see:

=== Order ===
Dwarf: Attack 10 (was 11), Defence 13 (was 11)
Gold golem: Dmg 9-13 (was 8-12)
Mage: Spell Points 18 (was 16)
Genie: Move 25 (was 30), Spell Power 38 (was 45), Weekly Growth 5 (was 6)
Genie's experience raised to 120.
Titan: Move 30 (was 22).
Naga and Genie movement changed to 28
Naga exp. changed to 175 (was 157).

As for the other creature changes:

Spoiler

Creatures' stats:

=== Chaos ===
Orc: Dmg 2-3 (old value /was/ 1-3 )
Minotaur: Attack 19 (was 16), Defence 18 (was 15), Weekly Growth 7 (was 6)
Nightmare: Spell Points 8 (was 6)
Nightmare: Spell Points 10 due to change in cost of "Terror" spell.
Hydra: Move 28 (was 22).

Trolls: health 50, attack 14, defence 20

Troglodytes: attack 12, growth 25

Pirate: damage 1-3, health 12, attack 12, defence 8



=== Death ===
Skeleton: Hit Points 10 (was 8)

Vampires: Attack 27 (was 30), Defence 27 (was 30), Move 30 (was 38), Experience 275 (was 205).
Venom spawn: Move 26 (was 18)
Dark Champion: Spell Points 24 due to change in cost of "Terror" spell.
Zombie: Experience 8 (was 10).
Ghost: Experience 35 (was 33).

Mummy: Experience 28, health 40 defence 18



=== Life ===
Ballista: Move 16 (was 8)
Crusader: Hit Points 75 (was 65), Move 22 (was 18), Weekly Growth 6 (was 5)
Angel: Spell Points 22 (was 20)
Angel: Spell Points 14 due to change in cost of "Resurrection" spell.
Monks: Movementis raised to 22
Crusaders: Movement is raised to 26

Peasant: 2 gold per day income



=== Might ===
Cyclops: Attack 26 (was 30), Shots 7 (was 8)
Ogre mage: Attack 24 (was 18), Defence 22 (was 16), Move 24 (was 18), Speed 5 (was 4), Mana 5 (was 6)
Orge's experience raised to 130 XP, growth lowered to 5 and cost raised to 450 gold.

=== Nature ===
Satyr: Spell Points 8 (was 6)
Unicorn: Hit Points 85
Waspwort: Move 12 (was 8)
Phoenix: Spell Points 14 (was 12)
Sprite experience is lifted to 10 (was 7), and its Growth rate lowered to 16 (was 23)
Wolf experience is lowered to 9 (was 11), and its Growth rate lifted to 17 (was 16)
Air Elemental experience is lifted to 77 (was 74).
Earth Elemental experience is lowered to 65 (was 77).
Fire Elemental experience is lowered to 72 (was 75).
Water Elemental experience is raised to 90 (was 73).

 

[Lacrymas]

I was just using it as an example of how it can wreck balance, or even make it impossible to do a mission, by nerfing units a campaign is designed around.

 

[Maculo]

I get that, but most of the nerfs appear slight. Plus, some other units got some love.

Also, the subsequent Might missions are much easier. Mission 1 is almost misleading in terms of difficulty, because the difficulty drops off in Mission 2 and Mission 3 (so far). Part of the drop off in difficulty is that you can finally hire a second hero. For my second hero, I chose a Priest with healing/Resurrection, and resurrection just by itself makes my life easier.

I am glad I stuck it out. If I had to do Mission 1 again, I think I would just camp the Cyclops Lair and build a critical mass of those things.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm thinking of doing a HoMM 2 -> 3 (with Chronicles) -> 4 runthrough in the near future. I just got out of a nu-Shadowrun "trilogy" marathon so I'm good on turn-based games now, but will definitely start it after I complete some other non-turn-based game. Looking forward to it because I never played 2 and I never completed most of the single-player campaigns in any HoMM game. 4 is maybe the most I've completed, I think I did all the base-game campaigns.

 

[visions]

I've been in the middle of a HoMM campaigns marathon (with some breaks) for the last few years. Started with HoMM1, currently at HoMM 3 Shadow of Death. Price of Loyalty campaign in the HoMM2 Price of Loyalty expansion was the hardest and the only one I couldn't complete so far. Failed the Betrayal's End scenario twice and moved on to the next campaign cause I lacked the patience to try it again.

Wizard's Isle campaign in PoL has a reputation for being hard as well but I didn't have problems with it. It's luck dependent though, supposedly the last scenario in Wizard's Isle is impossible if your opponent gets Dimension Door. In general, I enjoyed HoMM2 campaigns more than I'm enjoying the campaigns in HoMM3.

 

[Lacrymas]

Is HoMM1 good? I've heard its value stops at historical significance/curiosity and 2 is where the good stuff begins.

 

[vota DC]

Homm 1 lack map editor, creature upgrade and secondary skills. But otherwise it is the same of 2.

 

[Maculo]

I'm thinking of doing a HoMM 2 -> 3 (with Chronicles) -> 4 runthrough in the near future. I just got out of a nu-Shadowrun "trilogy" marathon so I'm good on turn-based games now, but will definitely start it after I complete some other non-turn-based game. Looking forward to it because I never played 2 and I never completed most of the single-player campaigns in any HoMM game. 4 is maybe the most I've completed, I think I did all the base-game campaigns.

I would say go for it, but that may be a long-term project. I remember HoMM3 + expansions being a long, long journey. I never completed it, so perhaps I am dead wrong. As for HoMM2, I have been meaning to try it. I just never got around to it.

 

[Gepeu]

HoMM 2 has the most difficult campaigns, as in, legitimately difficult. It even has some branches here and there that actually change your tactics for further missions (e.g. King of Dragons). I never finished HoMM3, there is always too much of it, and eventually I give up. However, a HoMM 1 playthrough is a blast, it always is. Tight and short.

I also liked HoMM 7 campaigns (especially the free add-on). I don't own the dwarves expansion yet, though (too pricey).

 

[Lacrymas]

So many good games I haven't completed, so little time... 3 has always been enormous and that's why I've never completed it, Chronicles adds even more of it, so yeah, it might take a while to complete. Probably taking breaks in-between.

 

[visions]

Yep, HoMM 3 is getting tiring for me. I took a break between Armageddon's Blade and Shadow of Death but it's still kinda tiring. Back in the day I didn't have the expansions so it's my first time playing through them.

 

[Maculo]

Not to add more to the pile, but some of the HoMM3 custom campaigns are fantastic, such as Sander's Folly, Hail to the King, and Goldheart. In Hail to the King, you cannot build additional creatures and must instead rely on what you find. Your initial army is one swordsman, one archer, and some pikeman, and the first fight is against a couple Minotaur. Unfortunately, the story text did not trigger correctly in game, and I am not sure it was ever fixed correctly.

I also remember loving Goldheart for the story, which slowly reveals the protagonist's memories (amnesia plot of course).

 

[Lacrymas]

I decided to start my epic playthrough of this series (at least to 4) as a side thing and am starting from 1. Started as Ironfist (human), who is canonically the winner of the campaign, but then I realized all the races/lords have the same campaign, they just start from different places on the map, so I'll restart it as Alamar (warlock) and go from there. The first map can very easily be rushed in like 10ish minutes anyway. The map heavily favors Ironfist, though, with peasant huts strewn throughout it. The game is pretty primitive, at least compared to the later entries, but it still has its charms. Some units have insanely slow movement speeds, like 1 square/hex per turn, so peasants take forever to get to their target. I can't find a way to split stacks of creatures, which is annoying. Higher level spells can be learned by anyone as far as I can see.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I've wanted to do a playthrough of all Heroes games in sequence, but I'm finding it very hard to play 1. It seems like a blueprint for 2 in every respect, although I have to say I quite like the vancian spellcasting system and I think it provides a distinct flavour for the game.

 

[visions]

I decided to start my epic playthrough of this series (at least to 4) as a side thing and am starting from 1. Started as Ironfist (human), who is canonically the winner of the campaign, but then I realized all the races/lords have the same campaign, they just start from different places on the map, so I'll restart it as Alamar (warlock) and go from there. The first map can very easily be rushed in like 10ish minutes anyway. The map heavily favors Ironfist, though, with peasant huts strewn throughout it. The game is pretty primitive, at least compared to the later entries, but it still has its charms. Some units have insanely slow movement speeds, like 1 square/hex per turn, so peasants take forever to get to their target. I can't find a way to split stacks of creatures, which is annoying. Higher level spells can be learned by anyone as far as I can see.

I'm pretty sure you can't split stacks in HoMM 1. There are no skills so yes, higher level spells can be learned by anyone.

I played through the campaign as Alamar as well. When playing the Warlock castle, you might want to hire Barbarian heroes to lead your troops. Warlock castle has the strongest troops, which combine well with Barbarian heroes' high Attack.

 

[Lacrymas]

Finished the second map, it took me far too long. The AI sees the whole map and knows if you have undefended castles, so I had to run back and forth between my bases for a while to fend them off before I got enough troops to not worry about that. Then the fun began, trying to take the other lords' castles is an immense pain because it's hard to defend them. You constantly cycle through the castles until they run out of nearby heroes, then repeat the process for the other lords. Now I remember why I didn't complete most campaigns. It's not even hard, I had 20 dragons which one-shot everything they can throw at me, so it was just manual labor. This is why I prefer Age of Wonders, this shit is minimized.

It was also fun when I had to chase an enemy hero with 9 artifacts, he had both the Boots of Speed and Compass of Mobility, so it was impossible to chase him down, I had to strategically place myself between him and an empty castle, so he came to me. I one-shot his troops with Meteor Shower since he constantly fled otherwise. I had 3 Mage Guilds at level 4, but didn't get Dimension Door. I don't understand how the magic works, though, I can only cast it a certain amount of times per what? Per Mage Guild visit or ever?