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Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Inec0rn

Educated
Joined
Sep 10, 2024
Messages
406
Did you see Indiana Jones 5? We had no idea how bad things would get.

Well no actually, because its blindingly obvious it will be fucking dogshit. Just like nuJurrassicPark, nuStarwars, nuGhostbusters, nuAliens, nuBacktothefuture or whatever other corp slop produced for deadshit consumers. You gotta stop supporting this behavior or it will just continue as it has been forever.

And it double sucks because that's billions of dollars not given to actual creative people like 80's Lucus, Spielberg, Cameron, Scott, Zemeckis, Chrichton etc. people that might actually have a story or something to say instead of hurr durr lightsaber, hurrdurr hat or whip or other low IQ fanfic trope.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,210
Now we're shitting on Mario and Zelda. Mario Bros 3 is an absolute landmark in game design. It still blows me away that it is an 80s game, because it's more comparable to a 90s game overall. It's much longer than the average 80s game, polished to a sheen, has greater mechanical depth, stands out a hell of a lot compared to any other game from that decade I've played (approximately 50+) by a longshot. It's such a solid game, still flawless and exemplary today, it should command great respect from any serious (and non-retarded) gaming enthusiast.

Zelda similarly, Link to the Past (1991) and Links Awakening (1993) are great, among the best of early 90s games, and again pretty important in the evolution of game design. There isn't a single wasted byte of data on shit design decisions or fluff in those games. It's a very long-running series (beginning in the 80, still going) and you cant judge the entire series based on one or two games you tried briefly. Hell even the first two games in the 80s (Zelda 1 & 2) are vastly different experiences from each other; different game genres. The series has a lot of decline going on as with pretty much any long-standing game series, but only an ignoramus would deny the solid game design demonstrated in those two games.

Yet more historical revisionism...there's just no escaping it.
 
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JC'sBarber

Educated
Joined
Sep 14, 2024
Messages
185
Never liked Mario Bros 3, I always preferred Mario World. Say what you will about the lack of variety in biomes, but it just controls better and feels nicer to play IMO. And if that isn't enough there's a shit ton of fan hacks that use Mario World's engine to craft some truly incredible games.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
24,635
Location
Mahou Kingdom
For me, it's the first Super Mario, "Lost Levels", Zelda 1, 2 and their sister game Nazo no Murasamejou.

Even leaner (and meaner!) than their Super Famicom successors, though Zelda 1 and 2's "social" secrets design inherited from the Tower of Druga may leave some sour during blind solo play.
 

Inec0rn

Educated
Joined
Sep 10, 2024
Messages
406
i've played all zelda up to around twilight princess no problems with them, I was specifically talking about the new ubisoft / generic openworld versions of Zelda Nintendo fanboys delude themselves into thinking are something special.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
24,635
Location
Mahou Kingdom
i've played all zelda up to around twilight princess no problems with them, I was specifically talking about the new ubisoft / generic openworld versions of Zelda Nintendo fanboys delude themselves into thinking are something special.
They are very comfy to look at but are filled with meaningless "content"
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,210
Never liked Mario Bros 3, I always preferred Mario World. Say what you will about the lack of variety in biomes, but it just controls better and feels nicer to play IMO. And if that isn't enough there's a shit ton of fan hacks that use Mario World's engine to craft some truly incredible games.

Mario Bros 3 is the better game in almost every way. World is soyboy decline, stripping out many features and making everything flamboyant. JC Denton does not approve of this faggotry.

Also, SMB3 has decades of romhacks and wild total conversions too.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
212
The common critiques of Breath of the Wild make me feel like an alien. It's all so far from any kind of reason or coherence and taken as gospel by so many people. People convincing themselves that "the exploration isn't satisfying" means something.

They are very comfy to look at but are filled with meaningless "content"
This critique, when thrown at Ubishit, makes sense because of the total experience being aesthetically unjustified, incoherent, and pointless. The games are ugly, miserable, made entirely of pre-existing stock elements. And each new activity module you initiate is effectively a self-contained instance, with the "open world" being a menu of boring, shit, pointless tasks that you have to move between in a meaningless and uninteresting way.

To say that the "content" of a game like Farcry5 is meaningless is to say that Farcry5 is meaningless and what you do in it and throughout that *content* is also not a justified experience.

Breath of the Wild is a game which lives or dies on whether or not you enjoy the bare basic fundamental engagement with it. Do you like moving through its world, do you like how Link handles, do you like how objects have weight, presence, characteristics, do you like that it's all big and it takes a far while to get around? The "meaning" of the "content" is that it's all there to be engaged with using these systems and mechanics, and the distance between them is really the body of the game. It's called Breath of the WILD and most people talk about it like a checklist of things Scott the Woz have told them are designated "content", and nobody has told them walking can be interesting so even if they liked that part it wouldn't occur to them in a trillion years to say they did. Appraisal is for CAWNTENT and CAWNTENT isn't WALKING because SCOTT said so. People got used to "open world games" not in the sense of organically growing bored of novelty of movement and spending time, but in the bad sense that Ubisoft raped everyone so hard with pointless minimap icons that people were conditioned to think of all games as menus and silos of mini-instances of pointless action connected by meaningless connective tissue of dashing between these things.

Most new western games are for fucking slaves. Form has met the consumer. But a fucking slave is a fucking slave. You can put anything in front of them, and they'll make a slave's time out of it.

The MEANING of Breath of the Wild is that it's a wilderness. It's bringing something out of you every step of the way. The game does not really consist of silod CONTENT modules which can be appraised in isolation. This line of attack is so far off of the fundamental experience of actually playing the game that I'm lost to give you an equivalent analogy. Appraising a movie by the soundtrack notes of its written script? I don't fucking know.

Most people are raped slaves and I've never read a critique of these games that didn't leave me doubting the humanity of the one making it.

Were any of you born when the PS2 generation of Grand Theft Auto games were coming out? Do you remember why people liked them? Imagine trying to explain to a 10 year old at the time that the "content" was "meaningless". Grand Theft Auto was buying a world on a disc and being able to engage with it all on a level not really enabled or facilitated by anything else that was out at the time. Breath of the Wild is to its own generation (and everything since) what GTA3-SA were to their peers. See that city? This isn't a racing game. You aren't the car. Get out and walk around. Go down that alley. Just walk off in that direction. Get in a care and fly all the way out of the city. Go down the sidewalk and just run down 50 people.

Todd Howard said "see that mountain, you can climb it", and the raped masses convinced themselves that was a compelling thought for some reason. Breath of the Wild is a game in which you can climb the mountain. You can climb the tree. You can cut the tree down. You can go on a slow-walk with detours and distractions for hours between things you're ostensibly meant to care about (referring to your CONTENT you ungrateful ape).

To say that the game has meaningless content, is to one suggest that anything that can be described as "content" can have meaning (wrong), and second that you've been conditioned to look for meaning only in exactly those places. What can the value of any game be, or at least any that superficially resembles this "open world" form? If you can move between things and they aren't all necessary to see the credits, where does meaning come in?

In the 2000s most people didn't finish Grand Theft Auto games. Most San Andreas owners probably never even left Los Santos. Many getting dozens if not hundreds of hours out of it still just there. Tell them it was meaningless. Or maybe it wasn't. Explain to me how I'm supposed to tell the difference.

Breath of the Wild was a new set of hands. A game speaking a new language. A game that did the things its predecessors impersonated, mimed, and staged. It's a new standard for engaging with a virtual world. That is the "meaning". I repeat myself, as I always do on this site, for your benefit.
 

JC'sBarber

Educated
Joined
Sep 14, 2024
Messages
185
Never liked Mario Bros 3, I always preferred Mario World. Say what you will about the lack of variety in biomes, but it just controls better and feels nicer to play IMO. And if that isn't enough there's a shit ton of fan hacks that use Mario World's engine to craft some truly incredible games.

Mario Bros 3 is the better game in almost every way. World is soyboy decline, stripping out many features and making everything flamboyant. JC Denton does not approve of this faggotry.

Also, SMB3 has decades of romhacks and wild total conversions too.
Don't care, just never liked Mario 3. And Mario World added features for the ones it removed, such as Yoshi, secret exits, switch palaces that affect levels, and a dynamic world map that changes. The only thing Mario 3 has are warp whistles and toad houses, and a few one-use powerups like the Frog suit.
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,926
Location
Water Play Catarinense
I don't remember if it was SMW that introduced that kind of world map where all stages are connected (SMB 3 also had a world map, but for each world instead of one connecting all levels), but that is one thing I really love in that genre. Yoshi Island had the same world map as SMB 3, sadly. Donkey Kong Country 3 had the best map of the trilogy for the same reason, despite being the weakest of them.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,210
"Yoshi Island had the same world map as SMB 3 sadly"

Pffft that would be nice. Not a single one of the follow-ups captured the glory of SMB3 world map, with branching paths (frequent level splits), interactive elements (hammer men that move around the world map, breakable blocks with a resource cost, and more), hidden secrets (off-screen areas), and puzzle elements (pipe mazes). There's even a boat in a few worlds that ties in to all this.

Open your eyes goddamn it. Yoshi's Island doesn't even have a world map in any meaningful capacity - it's a straight line and not interactive in any way except linear level select. SMW was almost as bad but at least had a tiny handful of branching...and that was pretty much it except the star world. As for JC's barber, secret level exits exists in SMB3 also, and Yoshi (1 power up) does not make up for the removal of multiple powerups, an inventory system, and everything else glorious and deeper about SMB3.

Clearly you guys value fluff like thematic continuity over actual core game design. Not that stages connecting between worlds is a bad thing, but it is no substitute for deeper content.
 
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Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,626
Location
Hyperborea
Yeah there's nothing to praise about SMW's map compared to 3's, which was like a game in itself. World has other shortcomings, but I digress and it's still a better video game than what 95% of the industry could ever do now, including Nintendo themselves.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,348
Location
Nottingham
Now we're shitting on Mario and Zelda. Mario Bros 3 is an absolute landmark in game design. It still blows me away that it is an 80s game, because it's more comparable to a 90s game overall. It's much longer than the average 80s game, polished to a sheen, has greater mechanical depth, stands out a hell of a lot compared to any other game from that decade I've played (approximately 50+) by a longshot. It's such a solid game, still flawless and exemplary today, it should command great respect from any serious (and non-retarded) gaming enthusiast.

Zelda similarly, Link to the Past (1991) and Links Awakening (1993) are great, among the best of early 90s games, and again pretty important in the evolution of game design. There isn't a single wasted byte of data on shit design decisions or fluff in those games. It's a very long-running series (beginning in the 80, still going) and you cant judge the entire series based on one or two games you tried briefly. Hell even the first two games in the 80s (Zelda 1 & 2) are vastly different experiences from each other; different game genres. The series has a lot of decline going on as with pretty much any long-standing game series, but only an ignoramus would deny the solid game design demonstrated in those two games.

Yet more historical revisionism...there's just no escaping it.
I've found the Zelda series ridiculously overrated over the years, the N64 titles especially. In fact, the most fun I had with a Zelda-type game for the 5th gen of consoles was Legend of Oasis (not played it in years though, so no idea how it holds up)

Through the course of the past 7-8 years playing all these old games and interacting with their various fanbases, I've found most fanbases have roughly an equal balance of positive and negative; each has their own rabid nutcase fanboys who won't criticize anything, each has their balanced fans who can both appreciate and criticize, and there's everything in-between.

But Nintendo's are a different breed. The majority are so blinkered and brand loyal it's ridiculous. I used to fucking love the SNES until I started playing through all the overhyped shite which they big up, but how I've grown to hate it somewhat and definitely hate those Nintendards too. Don't get me wrong, I still think the SNES has some great games and still play them now and again, but the amount of times a completely mid or dull game such as Brain Lord, Breath of Fire, Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario RPG, Earthbound, Alchahest etc. gets hailed as "a Masterpiece" by them is unreal.

Obviously, Chrono Trigger falls into that bracket, their revisionism is some of he worst, and they just claim Chrono Trigger invented the wheel...

BHNVPcU.png


But, because I'm not one of those biased nutcases, I will freely agree that Link To The Past is one of the few games that lives up to the hyped. It's a 10/10 for me, an absolutely phenomenal game with delicious world design, pacing and great snappy gameplay too. I like other Zelda clones of the era such as Beyond Oasis, but none of them come close to Link To The Past. That's definitely the one game which delivered on all fronts. But yeah, the other games I've played in that series don't get nowhere near that standard.

As for Mario, Mario 3's final 3rd is peak Mario IMO. The whole game has really short stages which I find offputting, but that final 3rd ramps up the challenge and is fantastic. But I can also see why Super Mario World is loved as much, even though it's way, WAY too easy the depth it has for a platformer and the sense of discovery it offers is top notch.

The explosion happens in Nintendo groups when I tell them I enjoyed Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Kid Chamaeleon just as much :lol:
 

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