Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Machocruz]

Mass Effect can't offer that, nowhere near. It's a play through once every 5-6 years game for one week a year.

So you have a ritual where you choose to punish yourself for one week every 5 years? Interdasting.

 

[Lucumo]

If you would say (or acknowledge) that's an apples vs oranges comparison, then your statement of "OPL3 > OPN2" and "strictly more capable" would be wrong.

I will acknowledge it may not be strictly more capable and that the word strictly may be hyperbole.

Instead I will say "generally more capable". Better?

Also, above I write "may" because in the mean time I was looking at some oscilloscope recordings of OPL3 and I saw some very square and sawtooth wave forms so obviously there is a way to achieve these things with the chip.

I don't know. What rubs me the wrong way is the ">" ("strictly" too, of course), like how 8 > 5, absolutely clear-cut. I would prefer the "apples vs oranges" one which you threw in at the end. Both chips are from different lines and have different advantages. Tying "capability" to either quantity or quality isn't right. If anything, I would take the apples vs oranges and say that one chooses a chip based on how it tastes aka what it can produce aka the result.

 

[Falksi]

Consequences are we get more shit games instead of good ones, as devs copy paste game ideas from games which weren't all that, but which the popular, mainstream, drongo buck tells them were.

I mean, look at the garbage open-world craze of the past 10-15 years. Some early Bethesda games were way better to explore, and games like Escape From The Pit and Gothic 2 were structured superbly. But what's on that list instead? Assassins Creed and Skyrim. So now devs look to the latter 2 games to draw inspiration from, and we just get more slop with open worlds not worth bothering with.

Another more modern example are games like Nioh 1 & 2 which have great 3D combat, but which far fewer devs and studios are paying attention to or learning lessons from because they're all focused on Elden Ring. ER's a great game. but Nioh's actual combat is flat out better. But what's gonna get a spot in IGNs "greatest games ever!" in 5-10 years time? Elden Ring of course, and that's what devs will copy the combat from instead of Nioh in future years.

Are you describing a consequence of historical narratives, or of shit taste and ignorance?

I can't imagine a case in which someone sets out to and completely develops an entire game, based on the reputation of something in the past that they haven't played or tried to appreciate themselves. What's happening? Someone wants to make a 3D platformer in abstract, they google "history of 3D platformers", and Scott the Woz tells them Croc was the most beloved N64 platformer so they look up that game on youtube and spend years of their life making a Crocbornevanialike?

Is this how historical revisionism hurts the industry?

I know that sounds silly, so why don't you give me an actual case so I can see what's really happening.

Said shit taste and ignorance is what drives that historical narrative.

Tons of modern gamers use these lists as guides to play games, which then influences their development choices if they go on to develop. Devs also see that these are the type of games being played, and then go on to make more like them for sales obviously.

I'd say Sea of Stars is a good example. Heavily influenced by the "legendary, gold standard, untouchable etc." Chrono Trigger...Sea of Stars is boring and wonky as fuck. And that's because it copied a formula with some lame design choices. For example, like Chrono Trigger you only have 3 party members in your team, which means losing 1 of them removes quite a sizeable portion from your combat strength and is harder to balance. The only way Square have ever made that model succeed (such as in FF games 7 through 10) is to make the difficulty extremely easy as compensation and Sea of Stars does the same. The second the devs try and make the game harder it feels like a spike, because the 3-person-party setup has to be very finely tuned for combat balance, which most modern devs won't achieve (and which Square themselves often failed at anyway).

Whereas games such as Final Fantasy 5 or Phantasy Star 4 where you have 4 & 5 party members respectively, give you far more flirtatious dynamics throughout them because you can regularly get party members downed. So devs give those games more challenge, and you also get the extra levels of tension which comes with more stages of party depletion. But the go-to combat setup model for some modern JRPGs like Sea of Stars is the lame 3-party one, because in recent years outlets like IGN have been telling devs "this is the best! this is what everyone loves!".

Nioh was the other I mentioned for a more modern and higher profile example. Soulslike games are coming out ten-a-penny, and how many of them are implementing stuff like stances or stamina replenishment? I can't think of any off the top of my head, they're too fixated on the Souls games.

With Dark Souls, there’s never really a need to use anything beyond spamming R1, outside of dodging, and this became even worse in Dark Souls 3, which gained it the nickname of R1 Spammer among some people because of this. Nearly every enemy can be defeated by mere R1 spamming and even bosses fall down to that outside of the whole dance rhythm you perform with them. You’ll dodge their moveset, get a few R1 attacks in, rinse and repeat. Ultimately it makes for quite repetitive gameplay, especially on repeated playthroughs. Now I love the Souls games, but a lot f that it due to their atmosphere, worlds and traps, but that combat is definitely not as good as either Nioh game.

In the Nioh games, R1 spamming doesn’t work against most enemies. You can defeat cannon fodder enemies like this, but most others will block, dodge, counter or grab you. It creates a far more interesting gameplay experience, as the games encourage you to explore the full offering of the diverse combat system. The game offers combos, weapon switch combos, regular attacks into skills, evasive attacks, etc. You can approach and defeat enemies and bosses in so many different ways which, for me, creates more replayability. There’s also far more build variety and customisation options in Nioh, that not only help the replayability but create even more ways to approach combat that Dark Souls simply cannot match. But where are all the Nioh clones mechanically? Nowhere. Yet Dark Souls clones are ten a penny.

And we won't ever see a Nioh game featured in an IGN list because it's 1) not casual enough; 2) not popular, despite it hands down having the best combat mechanics of the genre.

 

[NecroLord]

I'm just fucking sick of Nintendo and all of its religious zealots. Can't go to any retro board without people circlejerking themselves to death all over Mario and Zelda, rarely discussing anything else. Try discussing games with actual historical significance like OutRun, Street Fighter II or Wizardry and you'll be laughed at because they're not F-Zero, Smash Bros and Paper Mario respectively. They're worse than the entire collective of Applefags and won't stop until they've whitewashed the entire written history of video games to make it look like only Nintendo mattered in the past. They're also the same people who call old games (not released in Nintendo systems) clunky, unplayable, badly aged because they don't play like their kids' games and that upsets them.

Zelda is shit.
There, I said it.
Don't really care about Mario.
I just played a few of them and that was it, not really impressed.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

The Nintendo nuclear triad:

• Land - Mario
• Sea - Zelda
• Air - Metroid

Or at least that's how it was meant to be, I guess in popular discourse, Pokemon long erased Metroid in pure numbers.

The third member of the trinity, Metroid, is genuinely a great franchise, one of the peaks of explorefag gaming.

 

[GamerCat_]

Consequences are we get more shit games instead of good ones, as devs copy paste game ideas from games which weren't all that, but which the popular, mainstream, drongo buck tells them were.

I mean, look at the garbage open-world craze of the past 10-15 years. Some early Bethesda games were way better to explore, and games like Escape From The Pit and Gothic 2 were structured superbly. But what's on that list instead? Assassins Creed and Skyrim. So now devs look to the latter 2 games to draw inspiration from, and we just get more slop with open worlds not worth bothering with.

Another more modern example are games like Nioh 1 & 2 which have great 3D combat, but which far fewer devs and studios are paying attention to or learning lessons from because they're all focused on Elden Ring. ER's a great game. but Nioh's actual combat is flat out better. But what's gonna get a spot in IGNs "greatest games ever!" in 5-10 years time? Elden Ring of course, and that's what devs will copy the combat from instead of Nioh in future years.

Are you describing a consequence of historical narratives, or of shit taste and ignorance?

I can't imagine a case in which someone sets out to and completely develops an entire game, based on the reputation of something in the past that they haven't played or tried to appreciate themselves. What's happening? Someone wants to make a 3D platformer in abstract, they google "history of 3D platformers", and Scott the Woz tells them Croc was the most beloved N64 platformer so they look up that game on youtube and spend years of their life making a Crocbornevanialike?

Is this how historical revisionism hurts the industry?

I know that sounds silly, so why don't you give me an actual case so I can see what's really happening.

Said shit taste and ignorance is what drives that historical narrative.

If this is the key underlying factor I think it would make far more sense to just talk about shit taste and ignorance. I don't see a "narrative" emerging really, and calling it all this confuses the issue of actual historical revisionism in gaming which is a real thing.

Tons of modern gamers use these lists as guides to play games, which then influences their development choices if they go on to develop. Devs also see that these are the type of games being played, and then go on to make more like them for sales obviously.

Weak raped slaves who let copywrite listicles have taste for them are deciding what games should be made and how. That sounds like our real problem. Not the content of the copywrite listicles.

I'd say Sea of Stars is a good example. Heavily influenced by the "legendary, gold standard, untouchable etc." Chrono Trigger...Sea of Stars is boring and wonky as fuck. And that's because it copied a formula with some lame design choices. For example, like Chrono Trigger you only have 3 party members in your team, which means losing 1 of them removes quite a sizeable portion from your combat strength and is harder to balance. The only way Square have ever made that model succeed (such as in FF games 7 through 10) is to make the difficulty extremely easy as compensation and Sea of Stars does the same. The second the devs try and make the game harder it feels like a spike, because the 3-person-party setup has to be very finely tuned for combat balance, which most modern devs won't achieve (and which Square themselves often failed at anyway).

Whereas games such as Final Fantasy 5 or Phantasy Star 4 where you have 4 & 5 party members respectively, give you far more flirtatious dynamics throughout them because you can regularly get party members downed. So devs give those games more challenge, and you also get the extra levels of tension which comes with more stages of party depletion. But the go-to combat setup model for some modern JRPGs like Sea of Stars is the lame 3-party one, because in recent years outlets like IGN have been telling devs "this is the best! this is what everyone loves!".

Never heard of Sea of Stars now. Looks like a product of the above. The primary problem is that it is made by weak raped Canadian slaves who just kind of average out their tastes and ambitions between various safely staked out DESIGNATED GOOD PRESTIGIOUS THINGS. "What if we made a Chronovaniabornelite with Ghibli elements?" What if I raped you, slave?

A cool person who really appreciated Chrono Trigger in their own way would probably make something interesting. These "passion projects" which are just five wasted years making a worse clone of something that already exists are what happens when company-filler slaves get told everyone can "justmakeart" in some kind of trannyish hopepunk nonsense way. No, not everyone can. These people should be programming chicken AI in Assassin's Creed 27.

I thought maybe I was being a bit too hard on these people, then I shared a link to the game elsewhere and started getting told about it. So far I'm only being told I'm right on it. So I guess I'll keep going.

It's like what I said about Halo and good shooters in that other thread. That the particular traits of great games are emergent from the people who made it and their particular drives and interests as they were making the thing. Particulars of a game, three characters, four or five, ATP, turns, dragon ball character designs, belts and zippers, it's all symptoms. Accidentals. The essential thing is that these were a fundamentally different class of people making these things with organic drives and inspirations these Canadians can't even imagine possessing.

THE REAL PROBLEM HERE is that our industry is posers incapable of understanding art, expression, or greatness top to bottom now. They've hit a critical mass to the point people can go a long time thinking they're inside without encountering the real thing. Imposters affirmed by networks of imposters, infiltrators, posers, etc can now form self uplifting and supporting structures within the industry. But these are not self supporting. The real light still has to come from without to make anything happen. These people are parasites.

IGN try to reduce video games to 'Chrono Trigger is great because it was a threecharactersATPvaniabornelike, if you do that too you are great like chrono trigger' because they themselves are retarded raped slaves. Do you know how online journalism works? These people don't believe what they're saying. They don't even have time to think about it. It's basically a sweatshop clickbait scam industry run by rape-victim slaves who do it for the prestige of being writers. Sam Hyde's fat slave Don Jolly wrote a good piece on this that he deleted. Let me get some of it for you.

There’s a lot of invective against the so-called “games journalists” today. And I get it. But my perception is colored by memory. I remember taking a tour of the Huffington Post at the height of their powers. The office took up the whole floor of a building on Broadway, not far from Union Square. And it was full of endless cubicles, like the matte painting from Tron, cubicles stretching to the horizon. And in each one was a writer, their ears covered by headphones, typing furiously on a laptop. Each of their heads was filled with music but for visitors, like myself, the cyclopean room was silent. Silent but for the sound of knuckles moving under skin and the dull clicking of keys, these quiet sounds amplified by sheer numbers until they thrummed in the air like a swarm of cicadas. Bone crickets at midday. That’s what I think of when I think of the “games journalists.” That and their little unused cereal bar covered with nerf guns. Remember: that was when things were good. That was the best they ever had, the best they could expect. That was the zenith.

These people even if they wanted to do their jobs properly still can't of course. The errors are repeated in what are meant to be hobbyist and enthusiast spaces. Because they're retarded rape victims who learned from the above slaves and don't actually have taste or passion, but vaguely want to be famous, want power and to be seen. POSERS. PARASITES. IMPOSTERS.

Chrono Trigger is great because of who worked on it and what they believed in and wanted to bring to life. If you believe you can reduce existing works to traits and work from a list of traits to create new works, you are just doing slow AI art. And that's what Sea of Stars is, if we're being generous. My Real American Patriot informers tell me that it's a deeply insincere feeling work that kind of has the tone of a white person VN about how VNs are bad (the kind obviously written by someone who does not read VNs).

I hope I haven't drifted off the essential point. No great work is its on paper characteristics. People who talk like that are retards. It's what people talk about when they have no strong organic reaction to a thing but feel a need to say something (because they're either a slave copywriter, or a rape victim anxious about the fact they have no soul).

Nioh was the other I mentioned for a more modern and higher profile example. Soulslike games are coming out ten-a-penny, and how many of them are implementing stuff like stances or stamina replenishment? I can't think of any off the top of my head, they're too fixated on the Souls games.

So you want people to spend years of their lives making Nioh but not called Nioh?

With Dark Souls, there’s never really a need to use anything beyond spamming R1, outside of dodging, and this became even worse in Dark Souls 3, which gained it the nickname of R1 Spammer among some people because of this. Nearly every enemy can be defeated by mere R1 spamming and even bosses fall down to that outside of the whole dance rhythm you perform with them. You’ll dodge their moveset, get a few R1 attacks in, rinse and repeat. Ultimately it makes for quite repetitive gameplay, especially on repeated playthroughs. Now I love the Souls games, but a lot f that it due to their atmosphere, worlds and traps, but that combat is definitely not as good as either Nioh game.

You kind of get at my answer here. The 'Souls' games are not wireframe combat simulators with a lot of set dressing. They exist as "worlds". I fucking hate the term "atmosphere", rape victim grasping to sound like they're saying something language. But you do understand something has to be said for it. There are lots of things you can do in these games, and things you can't do. There's no right answer for how you should make it. From have games to sell, ideas and interests in their head, they hope to marry their tastes to audience expectations and convention and make something compelling. You can learn, master, and dominate Dark Souls perhaps a lot easier than many other games (though not most games), and if the point was simply to resist mastery, it would be easy to load increasingly more obtuse mechanics to be managed at once, create crueller worlds, leaner conditions for the player. They aren't trying to maximally challenge you. The challenge is built to shape your experience of the world. You're meant to feel resistance you have to work a bit around mechanically, learning to fight, learning how you should fight, preparing, learning what to use. All of that is further engaging with the world. It's all cool.

An impression of a certain kind of fantasy world is what 'Souls' grew out of, not a bunch of numbers and theories on paper about combat systems and mechanics. I'm sure they do think quite hard about all of that. But individual mechanical and even aesthetic elements are not seen as justifying. It's all tools. Someone setting out to make a game which is everything 'Souls' is reduced to when you put it on paper would not make something that feels like 'Souls'. We have examples even. Who here liked 'Lies of P' or any other aspirational 'Soulslike' piece of shit? Who liked 'Lords of the Fallen(2023)'? That game should be the ideal example because Lords of the Fallen is to Dark Souls what Sea of Stars is to Chrono Trigger.

Do you understand what I mean when I say that? If you don't I have failed in writing this post.

In the Nioh games, R1 spamming doesn’t work against most enemies. You can defeat cannon fodder enemies like this, but most others will block, dodge, counter or grab you. It creates a far more interesting gameplay experience, as the games encourage you to explore the full offering of the diverse combat system. The game offers combos, weapon switch combos, regular attacks into skills, evasive attacks, etc. You can approach and defeat enemies and bosses in so many different ways which, for me, creates more replayability. There’s also far more build variety and customisation options in Nioh, that not only help the replayability but create even more ways to approach combat that Dark Souls simply cannot match. But where are all the Nioh clones mechanically? Nowhere. Yet Dark Souls clones are ten a penny.

And we won't ever see a Nioh game featured in an IGN list because it's 1) not casual enough; 2) not popular, despite it hands down having the best combat mechanics of the genre.

Did you play Sekiro? From obviously can make more involved systems (you may think it's less involved, I don't care, not my actual point). But they'll only do so when they believe it serves the particular vision they're working towards. They do not hold any perfect model third person action game in their minds which they believe all projects should be under their surfaces.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I actually think tactics gaming on PC right now is at its gameplay peak -- there was nothing at the quality level of Field of Glory 2 or Unity of Command 2 back in the day -- though perhaps too dialed back in ambition. I haven't played many modern squad based tactics so I can't speak for those, I'm just speaking as to the genre broadly.

Nothing still comes close to PG3 Scorched Earth in terms of core mechanics. It's a shame that all PG clones went aping PG2 instead (Panzer Corps has a direct legacy to PG1 even)

 

[Ol' Willy]

The Japanese console "puzzle" tactics games, while much much simpler when viewed as simulations, and far less entertaining as toy boxes, were far more complex as games.

Ahh, so this is your definition of a "complex gaem", with it having a puzzle encounter philosophy.

Well, this is not what complex means

 

[Ol' Willy]

If you can't cite a dev owning up to having played an obscure PC game from Japan (at the time very unlikely), I consider it convergent evolution of the genre and go with the more likely explanation in that a SSI war game was mostly likely influenced by earlier SSI war games

According to SSI designer Chuck Kroegel, the Japanese strategy series Daisenryaku was the primary inspiration for the non-traditional wargame design of Panzer General. Says Kroegel: "I can honestly say that if we hadn't played Daisen Raiku (sic), Panzer General would never have happened, period."

Grauken apologize to Japan

Panzer General is indeed distinct from other SSI wargames. It is simpler, has more rock-paper-scissors combat design and easier for non-grognards to get into, hence the popularity of the franchise

 

[Necrensha]

It's unbelievable how he's talking to Falksi like he was born yesterday and doesn't know about gaming journalism but this quote right here:

You kind of get at my answer here. The 'Souls' games are not wireframe combat simulators with a lot of set dressing. They exist as "worlds". I fucking hate the term "atmosphere", rape victim grasping to sound like they're saying something language.

Had me giggling for 10 minutes.

 

[Ash]

Mass Effect can't offer that, nowhere near. It's a play through once every 5-6 years game for one week a year..

Shit taste. Mass Effect is a play never game. In the realm of Action RPG it's total decline, coming after games like Deus Ex, Castlevania SotN, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, Parasite Eve 2, System Shock 2 etc, and analyzed independently of that Action RPG context is straight shit regardless. Terrible game.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Mass Effect can't offer that, nowhere near. It's a play through once every 5-6 years game for one week a year..

Shit taste. Mass Effect is a play never game. In the realm of Action RPG it's total decline, coming after games like Deus Ex, Castlevania SotN, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, Parasite Eve 2, System Shock 2 etc, and analyzed independently of that Action RPG context is straight shit regardless. Terrible game.

Don't be like that. Ass Defect and games like it are required playing for real lived experience of the Decline.

 

[Machocruz]

Shit taste. Mass Effect is a play never game. In the realm of Action RPG it's total decline, coming after games like Deus Ex, Castlevania SotN, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, Parasite Eve 2, System Shock 2 etc, and analyzed independently of that Action RPG context is straight shit regardless. Terrible game.

And just when you think it couldn't be topped for utter smoothbrain dross, they did so twice!

 

[Falksi]

It's unbelievable how he's talking to Falksi like he was born yesterday and doesn't know about gaming journalism but this quote right here:

You kind of get at my answer here. The 'Souls' games are not wireframe combat simulators with a lot of set dressing. They exist as "worlds". I fucking hate the term "atmosphere", rape victim grasping to sound like they're saying something language.

Had me giggling for 10 minutes.

Same here. This bit too...

"Chrono Trigger is great because of who worked on it and what they believed in and wanted to bring to life."

I guess Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is awesome because Steven Spielberg directed it too.

Falksi has left the chat.

 

[Grauken]

There's no bottom to Falksi's hatred of Chrono Trigger

 

[Machocruz]

Chrono Trigger and Mass Effect have a lot in common. Like their audience. More than 3 party members, and Dakwon's brain might melt and leak all over his Jordans

 

[Melcar]

As a kid I thought the game was named Chrono Tiger.

 

[Falksi]

There's no bottom to Falksi's hatred of Chrono Trigger

It's fucking crazy mate, and I can't believe it myself sometimes lol.

I actually like certain things about it, I do think it's a good one-and-done beginner RPG; not for me now but as a kid I used to love it.

But what it's been blown up to by some corners is just ridiculous.

Just a reminder how nuts some of it's fans are. These were polled in various Retro FB groups...

I mean, how can you not push back at ridiculous bollocks like that? lol

 

[Ol' Willy]

As a kid I thought the game was named Chrono Tiger.

Chronic Nigger

 

[Machocruz]

There's no bottom to Falksi's hatred of Chrono Trigger

It's fucking crazy mate, and I can't believe it myself sometimes lol.

I actually like certain things about it, I do think it's a good one-and-done beginner RPG; not for me now but as a kid I used to love it.

But what it's been blown up to by some corners is just ridiculous.

Just a reminder how nuts some of it's fans are. These were polled in various Retro FB groups...

I mean, how can you not push back at ridiculous bollocks like that? lol

Just parroting a narrative already set for them. Autopilot, like most people. Also they probably couldn't even tell you what PST's story is, or never heard of Betrayal at Krondor. It's no different then when people were saying Skyrim was the greatest RPG, or then Witcher 3. They'd say Fable was better than Gothic 2 if you asked them. If a grown person is still getting excited by what CT has to offer, do you imagine they have enough frontal lobe development to really consider the questions these polls are asking?

 

[Azdul]

both bad examples, since x-com ran on an amiga, less powerful than a snes,

It was ported to newer AGA Amiga's though, which were slightly younger than the SNES IIRC, and not earlier models like the most popular A500. Looking at the specs I think the A1200 (most common AGA model and likely target of the port) wins this:

CPU clockspeed it is night and day in favor of the Amiga 1200. 14+ MHz of an A1200 vs 3,58 MHz on the SNES.

AGA vs SNES graphics chip is a more complex topic, if not apples vs oranges due to how the hardware works, but at least looking at color both support 256 on screen color in indexed mode, although the snes can pick out of 15-bit color so just ~32k colors available for the 256 color onscreen pallete as opposed to the 24-bit of the AGA which gave you 16,8 million choices to put into your indexed palette. Supported resolutions are also in favor of the A1200/AGA.

X-COM ran on Amiga 500. 'Ran' in the loosest sense of the word, more like 'walked' or 'crawled'. Terror from the Deep was little more than asset swap, but they've never bothered with Amiga version.

Due to very nice assembly language, people assume that 68000 series is fast. It is not.

But of course it is still miles ahead of whatever Nintendo found in the dumpster to build SNES. It is Nintendo tradition - Game Boy, SNES, Wii U and Switch prove that there are no bad CPU designs if manufacturer is willing to offer deep enough discount.

 

[PrK]

And I never said anything from the golden era is "not good". I said it has aged.

Games are art, not food, you pathetic retarded ape, they do not age.
The only thing that changes with time is your own tastes and willingness to interact with them, which is only a problem when you you have the attention span of a brainrotted zoomer and are used to playing spoon-fed slop.

For example, the UFO Defense interface and perspective are horribly outdated. It's slow and corny to play. I played it through, it was the fucking shit back in the day, but now it's a relic that feels stiff and old.

One of the absolute greatest video games of all time, in 2025, not just in 1994, and this nigger claims “it’s slow and corny to play, [and it] feels stiff and old”. What. the fuck. am I reading.

You are married to the past. Depth does not excuse poor gameplay. The reason why you put some of these games over newer ones is because you grew up with them.
...
This is what I am talking about, nostalgia glasses.
...
All of this is just your bias and childhood affecting your views. It's nonsensical to compare this to newer games.

The usual giga cope answer of literal plebs trying to excuse their shit taste after getting filtered by actually good games.
Where is the nostalgia for 20 year old games I first played in my 20s? What about the 30 year old games I play for the first time in my 30s? NPCs cannot comprehend that some people like quality games and that quality is completely independent from the time you first experience it, if you have a working good taste.
Can you take a gander at these lists and enlighten us on the reasons they are wrong, and most importantly which games do you think should be included instead?

Historically, they were great and important, but if you took 10.000 people with no biases or nostalgia in a room, 97% of people would rather play fucking Dirt 4 than any of this.

97% of people are complete retards with shit taste, which is something you fail to note.

"The Seven Samurai fucking sucks because it's black and white". Childish.

This close and still can’t grasp the irony.

 

[Grauken]

"The Seven Samurai fucking sucks because it's black and white". Childish.

This close and still can’t grasp the irony.

True, the real reason the Seven Samurai sucks is because of a lack of gunfights

 

[Falksi]

both bad examples, since x-com ran on an amiga, less powerful than a snes,

It was ported to newer AGA Amiga's though, which were slightly younger than the SNES IIRC, and not earlier models like the most popular A500. Looking at the specs I think the A1200 (most common AGA model and likely target of the port) wins this:

CPU clockspeed it is night and day in favor of the Amiga 1200. 14+ MHz of an A1200 vs 3,58 MHz on the SNES.

AGA vs SNES graphics chip is a more complex topic, if not apples vs oranges due to how the hardware works, but at least looking at color both support 256 on screen color in indexed mode, although the snes can pick out of 15-bit color so just ~32k colors available for the 256 color onscreen pallete as opposed to the 24-bit of the AGA which gave you 16,8 million choices to put into your indexed palette. Supported resolutions are also in favor of the A1200/AGA.

X-COM ran on Amiga 500. 'Ran' in the loosest sense of the word, more like 'walked' or 'crawled'. Terror from the Deep was little more than asset swap, but they've never bothered with Amiga version.

Due to very nice assembly language, people assume that 68000 series is fast. It is not.

But of course it is still miles ahead of whatever Nintendo found in the dumpster to build SNES. It is Nintendo tradition - Game Boy, SNES, Wii U and Switch prove that there are no bad CPU designs if manufacturer is willing to offer deep enough discount.

Yeah, let's not forget that the SNES technically had a 8 bit CPU that was pretty much the same chip as what the NES had, and it ran at half the speed of the SEGA Mega Drive and PCE Engine (hence why so many games, especially SHMUPs, slow down to a crawl with barely half the stuff on screen as those other systems).

It's wild that the system was released 3 years after the PCE and 2 years after the Mega Drive, and Nintendo put such an outdated processor setup in it. It utterly kills some of the action games dead, Super R-type is an abomination with it's slowdown.

 

[Konjad]

Video games are funny. In a significant simplification, I know, but you could say that popular RPGs begun with Baldur's Gate and ended with Baldur's Gate (3). Kinda funny, kinda sad, but it is what it is.