Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Horse Armour Did Nothing Wrong

PrK

Savant
Patron
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
320
I'm very into cock and ball torture
"It's fine if it's just for cosmetics."
:nocountryforshitposters:

MTX only benefit the publishers, not the gamers.
Why is this an "either or" thing?

What if it actually benefits me because I like when publishers who make good games make money? Again, I think the problem isn't the monetization, I think the problem is the games are shit. Assassin's Creed Shadows isn't going to be a "better game" now that they're expecting it to flop so they included the DLC and other microtransaction shit in the base game to sweeten the deal for the retards who actually consider playing those games.
Are you for real? What the fuck is going on in consoomers' minds I seriously wonder. Literal cuck fetish mentality. "I like when publishers who make good games make money". They make that money when they sell a game that is good and as such lots of people buy it. End of story. No ifs or buts. "It's only cosmetic". So fucking what? Are textures or models not part of the fucking game? Do you cunts even remember when games had all this shit included and at most you just.. unlocked it by playing? You make the game > you sell the game. That is it. That's how you make money. And if you have some cool ideas, afterwards, you make an expansion and you sell it as well. Or release it for free, maybe along with mod tools so autists can make all that shit others charge for better and freely, like countless indie devs do regularly. A game may be shit or it may not. "Monetisation" is always cancer.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
"It's fine if it's just for cosmetics."
:nocountryforshitposters:

MTX only benefit the publishers, not the gamers.
Why is this an "either or" thing?

What if it actually benefits me because I like when publishers who make good games make money? Again, I think the problem isn't the monetization, I think the problem is the games are shit. Assassin's Creed Shadows isn't going to be a "better game" now that they're expecting it to flop so they included the DLC and other microtransaction shit in the base game to sweeten the deal for the retards who actually consider playing those games.
Are you for real? What the fuck is going on in consoomers' minds I seriously wonder. Literal cuck fetish mentality. "I like when publishers who make good games make money". They make that money when they sell a game that is good and as such lots of people buy it. End of story.
Why? They won't make that money when they sell a game. We're talking about additional money specifically. Sometimes some people I want to have additional money.


No ifs or buts. "It's only cosmetic". So fucking what? Are textures or models not part of the fucking game? Do you cunts even remember when games had all this shit included and at most you just.. unlocked it by playing? You make the game > you sell the game. That is it. That's how you make money. And if you have some cool ideas, afterwards, you make an expansion and you sell it as well. Or release it for free, maybe along with mod tools so autists can make all that shit others charge for better and freely, like countless indie devs do regularly. A game may be shit or it may not. "Monetisation" is always cancer.
"givemethatforfree" gamers are such fucking niggers. I've made several posts in this thread about the changing dynamics of game development and production and apparently all of that just bounces off your head. It's not 2002. If this stuff worked someone would be doing it.
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,642
Location
The Centre of the World
I'm a 'if you can't afford to give it to me with the game, don't make it' gamer. I mean, who asked for it.

In any case, what sells is decided by the gradual conditioning of retards into becoming bigger retards, intentionally or not.
 
Last edited:

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
I'm a 'if you can't afford to give it me with the game, don't make it' gamer. I mean, who asked for it.
Me and my friends. We did. I want to pay ten dollars each for additional outfits in Resonance of Fate. I want to pay 50 dollars for the John Galliano quest pack expansion. I want to pay quadruple price for the base game.

In any case, what sells is decided by the gradual conditioning of retards into becoming bigger retards, intentionally or not.
Yes and everyone here's suggestion is to condition people into extreme neurosis, stinginess, levelling out. ALL GAMES ARE EQUAL AND COMPLETE AND WORTH 60USD FOREVER. That's fucking dumb. Paying for Call of Duty glowing neon skins is also retarded. I think we should condition Call of Duty out of existence and recondition these people into the early 2000s. That is, dumbasses being tricked and unthinkingly buying things that were above them. "Huh, video game? I'm a gamer, sure, I guess I'll buy Final Fantasy 8". Yes. This is good. Make the default gamer purchase a single player start middle and end title which was developed for the gratification of artists and enrichment of culture.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,877,079
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
You make the game > you sell the game. That is it. That's how you make money.
That's adorable, he thinks he's a businessman already.

giphy.gif


https://sensortower.com/blog/genshin-impact-three-billion-revenue

Genshin Impact Surpasses $3 Billion on Mobile, Averages $1 Billion Every Six Months​

Genshin Impact was the world’s top grossing Gacha-based mobile game in Q1 2022, Sensor Tower data shows.​


genshin-impact-surpasses-3-billion


Genshin Impact from miHoYo has surpassed $3 billion in global lifetime player spending across the App Store and Google Play since its official launch on September 28, 2020, Sensor Tower Store Intelligence data shows.
 

PrK

Savant
Patron
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
320
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Why is "Monetisation" ''"always"'' ``''"cancer"''``?
For obvious reasons, but just to demonstrate:

You make the game > you sell the game. That is it. That's how you make money.
That's adorable, he thinks he's a businessman already.
I don’t get this comment. Do you believe that I’m not aware of the financial success of schemes like GTA online or Genshin Impact? Or do you believe that just because there are companies making money off pathetic consumers I shouldn’t call out how destructive that is to gaming? My comment was obviously prescriptive, not descriptive.

Why? They won't make that money when they sell a game. We're talking about additional money specifically. Sometimes some people I want to have additional money.
Then they should offer something worthy of that additional money. Otherwise it is just a donation. Which is perfectly fine, just don’t attach parts of the game to it.

"givemethatforfree" gamers are such fucking niggers. I've made several posts in this thread about the changing dynamics of game development and production and apparently all of that just bounces off your head. It's not 2002. If this stuff worked someone would be doing it.
"Changing dynamics of game development and production" also brought us trannies and gay sex. I guess we should just accept that, right? "It’s not 2002". Yes, and it’s a damn shame, but if the multibillion dollar companies can’t make a profit selling the game the way they did back then, then maybe they should reconsider their fucking development and production priorities? But the fact is they absolutely can make a profit, they just can make more of it by cutting the game up and serving it piecemeal to sheep like you.

Me and my friends. We did. I want to pay ten dollars each for additional outfits in Resonance of Fate. I want to pay 50 dollars for the John Galliano quest pack expansion. I want to pay quadruple price for the base game.
Just as I said. Cuck mentality. Maybe you also enjoy getting pegged by your boyfriend’s tranny wife, but unlike that, rewarding slimy companies' execs and shareholders by consooming microtransactions does have a negative impact to the rest of us as well.

Yes and everyone here's suggestion is to condition people into extreme neurosis, stinginess, levelling out. ALL GAMES ARE EQUAL AND COMPLETE AND WORTH 60USD FOREVER.
No, 60 is already too much, 40 is the acceptable limit. And listen to this nigger whining about "stinginess". As if spending 100 bucks for a microtransaction-ridden game is in any way more generous than paying that same amount spread over 4 games made by people who respect the artform and its audience.

The crux of the matter is very simple, by rewarding these cancerous practices with your money, you are incentivising companies on focusing on how to extract the maximum amount of money from you using various well documented psychology-based practices like FOMO, instead of making the best game possible and making money based on its merits alone. Which is categorically against the interests of gamers.
 

Nonary

Literate
Joined
Sep 27, 2024
Messages
9
In this thread I would like to challenge you all to name good games RUINED by MICROTRANSACTIONS, GREED, DLC, etc
Maybe not ruined, but visually undermined:
fmmbzx.jpeg
u8wtq5.jpeg

Ornament and Crime.
Weepy voiced fags on Youtube will go on about the hat economy as being a tragedy for "balance" or "breaking character silhouettes" -- No you fucking raped morons, this is about the original artistic vision of the game being compromised for the sake of the tasteless rabble. A more extreme example, from an otherwise poor game, mind:

Again, a formerly sober (if laaame) franchise lobotomizing itself for cash from retards. There's clearly something different going on here than what's going on with all these cute oriental gacha.

Monetization is cool when it means the developers enrich and ennoble themselves by virtue
gwbswm.jpg
of their artistic will and vision. "Wealth and Honor", as the lead of Project Moon put it. Monetization is cool when it enables the artists we like to live like fucking David Bowie if they want to: when it's fascist, perhaps. Millennials are lame and canceled John Romero over wanting to be a gamedev+rockstar.
ec690133a934416892f5e2655c15bbf0
...or you run a themed sandwich restaurant with your gacha money. Fuck it, why not, not all of us are born to be rockstars.

In any case, what we generally see in the west instead is the artistic will being twisted and contorted to the (perceived, correctly or otherwise) tastes of niggercattle for the enrichment of jewish middle managers, who, regardless of their success or failure, all deserve to be trampled by horses, eaten by lions, etc. in a golden replica of the Roman Colosseum.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262

Why? They won't make that money when they sell a game. We're talking about additional money specifically. Sometimes some people I want to have additional money.
Then they should offer something worthy of that additional money.
No gun to your head. Buy it or don't. The power is in your hands to decide if it is worthy. And ultimately they will be incentivised by the mass judgement. And if you disagree with the bulk of people (believe me, I can relate) well then we have to start making cases for top down consumer and market control to prevent various races to the bottom, declines in quality, usura. As a Nazi and disciple of Hjalmar Schacht I am for all of this of course. But I'm afraid the answer is more complex than "don't let the corposloppas charge more than 60USD for anything ever". We may have to kill some people.

Otherwise it is just a donation. Which is perfectly fine, just don’t attach parts of the game to it.
Fuck you they can do what they want.

"givemethatforfree" gamers are such fucking niggers. I've made several posts in this thread about the changing dynamics of game development and production and apparently all of that just bounces off your head. It's not 2002. If this stuff worked someone would be doing it.
"Changing dynamics of game development and production" also brought us trannies and gay sex. I guess we should just accept that, right? "It’s not 2002". Yes, and it’s a damn shame, but if the multibillion dollar companies can’t make a profit selling the game the way they did back then, then maybe they should reconsider their fucking development and production priorities? But the fact is they absolutely can make a profit, they just can make more of it by cutting the game up and serving it piecemeal to sheep like you.
What you want is simply impractical and not financially viable. Every studio making... you know I can't even tell what you want or what your idealised form for the industry is. DLC and microtransactions are such a limited and self-contained issue. I can't imagine any actual part of the industry you'd want to reform that isn't just entirely doing something you shouldn't have any industry.

What remedy are you seeking?

The only games seriously built around these new finance models are asian ones making stuff you were almost certainly never interested in in the first place. The most profitable ones are a world of their own. Goes around to what I keep saying. This stuff pretty much never touched RPGs except for confused transitory moments of overlap while the industry was trying to work things out. Yes, buying a squadmate in Mass Effect 3 was retarded. EVERYTHING ABOUT MASS EFFECT 3 WAS RETARDED. DO YOU WANT EVERY GAME TO BE MASS EFFECT 3 BUT YOU GET COMPLIMENTARY JAVIK?

We are WELL past the highpoint of DLC attempting to butt into traditional directed single player self contained experiences. It didn't work. Nobody really does it anymore.
Me and my friends. We did. I want to pay ten dollars each for additional outfits in Resonance of Fate. I want to pay 50 dollars for the John Galliano quest pack expansion. I want to pay quadruple price for the base game.
Just as I said. Cuck mentality. Maybe you also enjoy getting pegged by your boyfriend’s tranny wife, but unlike that, rewarding slimy companies' execs and shareholders by consooming microtransactions does have a negative impact to the rest of us as well.
Do you dumpster dive for your clothing? Do you eat supermarket discards?

Again, Japan is the land of paying for premium quality. Do they look like people negatively impacted by this industry orientation? Are they suffering a universal decline in quality of consumer experience?

Yes and everyone here's suggestion is to condition people into extreme neurosis, stinginess, levelling out. ALL GAMES ARE EQUAL AND COMPLETE AND WORTH 60USD FOREVER.
No, 60 is already too much, 40 is the acceptable limit. And listen to this nigger whining about "stinginess". As if spending 100 bucks for a microtransaction-ridden game is in any way more generous than paying that same amount spread over 4 games made by people who respect the artform and its audience.

The crux of the matter is very simple, by rewarding these cancerous practices with your money, you are incentivising companies on focusing on how to extract the maximum amount of money from you using various well documented psychology-based practices like FOMO, instead of making the best game possible and making money based on its merits alone. Which is categorically against the interests of gamers.
I keep asking for some standard of calculation that can consistently be applied. You're asking for price controls. Do you know how that tends to work out?

javier-milei-javier.gif


Die, communigger. I will give 100 dollars to EACH of these 4 games made by people who respect the artform and audience. Because if that's true, I will respect them. Quality demands respect. And respect looks like more than 25 dollars.


Ornament and Crime.
Aren't you being clever with me?

Weepy voiced fags on Youtube will go on about the hat economy as being a tragedy for "balance" or "breaking character silhouettes" -- No you fucking raped morons, this is about the original artistic vision of the game being compromised for the sake of the tasteless rabble.
TF2 can be excused on the grounds of this being a fairly revolutionary and experimental practice at the time, and they tried to do it really well. Mostly as odd and eccentric sidegrades that still broadly work within the game's look. I never wore anything too eccentric in TF2. A cowboy hat for engineer. Raybans for Scout. That kind of thing. Yes some people just want to be clownish niggers about the thing. But that's very much also the vision of TF2. It's an online lobby-based game in which you make your own fun with parts provided by Valve. Dressing up a bit silly plays into the whole experience largely being breaking the established Valve setup as hard as possible.

Hats breaking the aesthetic is an often-repeated critique because it's canned, easy thing to say, sounds critical. But how do you feel about the Mario Kart map?

vgorg2


Is this also a crime against the spirit of TF2? Were we just meant to try to win in Dustbowl forever?

A more extreme example, from an otherwise poor game, mind:

Again, a formerly sober (if laaame) franchise lobotomizing itself for cash from retards. There's clearly something different going on here than what's going on with all these cute oriental gacha.

This isn't the same as TF2. It's not spontaneous community driven workshop madness. It's aesthetic drift, laziness, and gamer universalism down to a shared general "game" experience. Because for a long time most Call of Duty players haven't been interested in the aesthetics or experiences of war. They just like running around playing lasertag with giant glowing toys while stoned.

And does this even make a lot of money? Or are these assholes just unlocking default skins and fucking around? Does this really strike you as a lean-mean, money-machine. Or more like an establishment brand surviving as a matter of course just kind of going to rot as it does so? Call of Duty is FIFA or MADDEN with "guns". It's fundamentally pointless and aesthetically unjustified. No boundaries or vision to respect. So naturally it's going to aesthetically bleed and fall apart in all directions and become nonsense.

Monetization is cool when it means the developers enrich and ennoble themselves by virtue of their artistic will and vision. "Wealth and Honor", as the lead of Project Moon put it. Monetization is cool when it enables the artists we like to live like fucking David Bowie if they want to: when it's fascist, perhaps. Millennials are lame and canceled John Romero over wanting to be a gamedev+rockstar.
I've said before, not that long ago even, that our refusal to treat our greats like celebrities or give them any kind of privilege is probably seriously holding our industry back. People hate how Kojima gets to live. Maybe if we gave Clint Hocking a fraction of that he could have made something as revolutionary as Farcry2 again. SWERY didn't finish D4 because Microsoft decided to Jew out and got mad that he was living well during production on their money. Microsoft think you can replace the talent with an army of indian contract-serfs, and, well, what's the last Microsoft Game Studios title you enjoyed?

Fucking stingy niggers and Jews.

...or you run a themed sandwich restaurant with your gacha money. Fuck it, why not, not all of us are born to be rockstars.

In any case, what we generally see in the west instead is the artistic will being twisted and contorted to the (perceived, correctly or otherwise) tastes of niggercattle for the enrichment of jewish middle managers, who, regardless of their success or failure, all deserve to be trampled by horses, eaten by lions, etc. in a golden replica of the Roman Colosseum.
Yes, yes, I like my opinions repeated back to me very much. But I think you're reaching if you want to look for examples of artists having their work tortured in the western industry. There are no damn artists left. What's being tortured is the legacy and traditions of the artists we did have maybe 15 years back ago now. Farcry was real when Clint Hocking worked on it. The entirety of Farcry 3 is a cruelly distorted joke. Not the ability to buy a gun skin in Farcry6.

The fact that entire aesthetically unjustified games are being made on the bones of what were once works of vision is the crime. No anime girls or community servers or novel mechanics with usuuuuuuura.
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,642
Location
The Centre of the World
Weepy voiced fags on Youtube will go on about the hat economy as being a tragedy for "balance" or "breaking character silhouettes"
Has anyone ever ACTUALLY had trouble knowing which classes they were fighting even with their wearing a thousand silly hats? Team colours can definitely be obfuscated with certain items, but I don't think it's really that common for people to do that. Silhouettes? Oh wow my medic's got a dog's head I cannot recognize him anymore damn these halloween hounds :argh:
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,249
In this thread I would like to challenge you all to name good games RUINED by MICROTRANSACTIONS, GREED, DLC, etc

They were bad or mediocre games from the get go. Microtransactions on top just make them even worse or distasteful. Oblivion being a prime example.

Microtransactions are a very bad practice. The monetary to content ratio is vastly askew and it sets a bad precedent. Which then led to shit like getting children addicted to gambling (loot boxes). DLC (larger chunks of content) doesn't have to be so bad, though it's not often it's good. Greed on the the other hand killed gaming outright, generally-speaking. Because developers sold out their principles, chased trends, made everything dumb to cash in.


Just as I thought. Small selection, 80% shit/mediocre/"good for what it is". Hardly any golden era games. Less talking, more playing, silly cat!
 
Last edited:

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
In this thread I would like to challenge you all to name good games RUINED by MICROTRANSACTIONS, GREED, DLC, etc

They were bad or mediocre games from the get go. Microtransactions on top just make them even worse or distasteful. Oblivion being a prime example.

Microtransactions are a very bad practice. DLC (larger chunks of content) doesn't have to be so bad, though it's not often it's good. Greed on the the other hand killed gaming outright, generally-speaking.
You don't have an argument for anything you're saying. "Microtransactions are bad". Yes, I know in regular gamer culture the applause is generally so eardrum shattering after you say that you couldn't even hear a follow-up question if anybody was smart enough to offer one, but I like to think we're sharper here at the 'dex.

"why?"

Think like a Deus Ex character if you're so smart. What would the NSF guy say to JC about microtransactions? Can you imagine authentic sounding Deus Ex dialogue containing the word "corposloppa"? Think for me.



Just as I thought. Small selection, 90% shit/mediocre/"good for what it is".
There are 37 titles. I considered that excessive since these were meant to all be selections that were deeply personal to me that I truly considered excellent. I could write you several pages of original critique and analysis of any one of them. For many I have. I put the bag on the table. Where's your bag?

Yeah gamercat why am i not seeing grimoire on that list hmm?
Where's your bag?
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,249
While you were writing your post I edited in shallow elaboration as to why MTX is bad, which barely scratches the surface. I'll copy it here: "Microtransactions are a very bad practice. The monetary to content ratio is vastly askew and it sets a bad precedent. Which then led to shit like getting unsuspecting children addicted to gambling (loot boxes)."

"Where's your bag?"

One of these days I'll do my top 100, or 200. Or more.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
While you were writing your post I edited in shallow elaboration as to why MTX is bad, which barely scratches the surface. I'll copy it here: "Microtransactions are a very bad practice. The monetary to content ratio is vastly askew and it sets a bad precedent. Which then led to shit like getting children addicted to gambling (loot boxes)."

"Where's your bag?"

One of these days I'll do my top 100, or 200. Or more.
I doubt you could convince me there are five games that mean anything of note to you.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,249
Odd. I talk about incline in equal parts decline. Usually when I shit on a game I offer multiple superior alternatives of the same genre. Maybe if you spent more time paying attention instead of spamming deranged diatribes, worshipping decline and licking evil corporate gaming boot.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
Odd. I talk about incline in equal parts decline. Usually when I shit on a game I offer multiple superior alternatives of the same genre. Maybe if you spent more time paying attention instead of spamming deranged diatribes, worshipping decline and licking evil corporate gaming boot.
Your taste is terrible. You are a superstitious peasant who believes in dollar for content value like you're your fat headed rape-meat ancestors buying grain at the market, trying not to get ripped off by the local Jew.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
Taking a look at your bag, GamerCat_ , do you even like 2D gaming?
Ha. No. Not really. I've always been deeply fascinated with three dimensions and virtual worlds. All of the most fascinated potential comes out once we break out of the 2D plane. I'm mister form and convention of course. I recognise that 2D works are their own creative language and tradition, just they aren't really personally for me.

My favourite 2D set of conventions is of course... VISUAL NOVELS!

 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,642
Location
The Centre of the World
just they aren't really personally for me.
gayass faggotspeak

you know what i play? anything. but you wanna know my bag? here you go, a grabbag.mid of wonderful games:

EMERALD DRAGON
AZRAEL'S TEAR
ILLUMINATION LASER
EASTERN MIND
SIN
MAD RAT DEAD
BATTLE GAREGGA
TAIL TALE
IHATOVO MONOGATARI
ROCK RAIDERS
GADGET
LAGOON LOUNGE

...plus one more! can you find it, weaselboy?
 

PrK

Savant
Patron
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
320
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Every studio making... you know I can't even tell what you want or what your idealised form for the industry is.
Maybe not the ideal final form, but going back to how it was at the late 90s would be a very good start.

The only games seriously built around these new finance models are asian ones making stuff you were almost certainly never interested in in the first place.
Maybe it is true to some extent, but what if I wanted to try something different for a change? What if someone has different tastes than me but similar principles? Is he not fucked? What about someone who cares about the health of the artform as whole, end to end as well as its posterity and preservation?
And there are for example many cases like Paradox games being something that I am very much into yet being confronted with their heinous "monetisation" models certainly doesn't help.

No gun to your head. Buy it or don't.
...
We may have to kill some people.
...
I will give 100 dollars to EACH of these 4 games made by people who respect the artform and audience. Because if that's true, I will respect them. Quality demands respect. And respect looks like more than 25 dollars.
I am aware of the sad state of the average consumer's mind but I’m not at this point calling for corpo exec pogroms. I am simply illuminating the clashing of interests between gamers and the current monetisation models publishers frequently use, highlighting the absurdity of claiming the reversal of that is somehow "not financially viable", pointing the flagrant gaslighting that is being commited in real time by companies about all that and which fanboys all too willingly fall for.

Even you, self professed bearer of a unique and nonconformist mind are evidently victim of that. Failing to see the difference between paying 100 simoleons to a multibillion dollar company for a game stitched together from its hacked up pieces, whose developers will see pretty much zero of it, while not only enriching the suits but giving them the wrong ideas about what they should continue doing; and paying that amount for games - or even a single game: Pierre Begue is at least 100€ richer thanks to me, but that was a donation, mostly for sustenance, not strictly an exchange for his game - made by devs that will use that money to continue enriching the industry.
Lack of imagination is a serious drawback: imagine films where you have to pay extra for shots shot with different lenses, novels where you have to pay for richer prose, music albums where you have to pay for extra instrumental layers. The ease of interchangeability and malleability in games may have given them the advantage on the analogous monetisation techniques, but if it wasn't the case, can you imagine cinephiles taking it in stride like gamers do? Many have been conditioned to simply accept it, mostly younger, usually brain addled people. It shouldn't be like that.

What remedy are you seeking?
...
I keep asking for some standard of calculation that can consistently be applied. You're asking for price controls.
I am definitely not asking for price controls, or even regulation - except for the most egregious cases like loot boxes or DRM - because I am aware of both their ineffectiveness and counterproductivity. I have already explained what my purpose is shitting on consoomer mentality instances: illuminating corporate anticonsumer practices and shaming anyone who partakes in them; thus allowing a small chance that the one offended will exercise a bit of critical thinking, analyse rationally his own interests and how they conflict with the corporate ones and maybe even rethink his purchasing habits in the end. It's not a revolution, it's just my one small act of kindness for my hobby.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
262
Every studio making... you know I can't even tell what you want or what your idealised form for the industry is.
Maybe not the ideal final form, but going back to how it was at the late 90s would be a very good start.
You goddamn imbecile games were cheaper to make back then because there was such a hard limit on how much one could put into one, the economy was stronger, and the mass gaming audience didn't have optimised infinite time-sinks so they bought a succession of limited and complete works because this was all they could do. To restore the 90s you would have to actually restore the 90s.

How many people still believe that game production costs somehow perfectly scale with reasonably expected returns? This is NOT THE CASE. THIS IS THE PRIMARY DRIVING FACTOR OF MOST CHANGES IN INDUSTRY PRACTICES.

The only games seriously built around these new finance models are asian ones making stuff you were almost certainly never interested in in the first place.
Maybe it is true to some extent, but what if I wanted to try something different for a change? What if someone has different tastes than me but similar principles? Is he not fucked? What about someone who cares about the health of the artform as whole, end to end as well as its posterity and preservation?
And there are for example many cases like Paradox games being something that I am very much into yet being confronted with their heinous "monetisation" models certainly doesn't help.
If I cared about the health of the artform I would be trying to end usura. Since I may be the only Nazi here I am the only one with a leg to stand on with this issue.

If you want to play Zenless Zone Zero you can. You don't have to buy catcop and wolfbutler, you can just take who you get. And even if you do buy them, will you have spent as much as what a new western AAA costs at release?

I don't really see who is fucked here. Someone who likes Chinese JRPG aesthetics but got radicalised by white people youtube into a principled stance against MICROTRANSACTIONS?

No gun to your head. Buy it or don't.
...
We may have to kill some people.
...
I will give 100 dollars to EACH of these 4 games made by people who respect the artform and audience. Because if that's true, I will respect them. Quality demands respect. And respect looks like more than 25 dollars.
I am aware of the sad state of the average consumer's mind but I’m not at this point calling for corpo exec pogroms. I am simply illuminating the clashing of interests between gamers and the current monetisation models publishers frequently use, highlighting the absurdity of claiming the reversal of that is somehow "not financially viable", pointing the flagrant gaslighting that is being commited in real time by companies about all that and which fanboys all too willingly fall for.
The late single player self contained linear AAA western productions WERE NOT MAKING MONEY AND COST A FUCKING FORTUNE. Having to do well to merely break even on a 100 million dollar+ investment is suicidal business.

And you may have noticed, many western AAA releases have been bombing lately. It's still suicidal. The few still being made feel like weird leveraged projects. Maybe Neil Druckmann has access to some Epstein blackmail material and that's why he's able to force the production of The Last of Us in Space starring Gook-Spigger Hybrid. I can name so many big games that died and took god knows how many careers and businesses down with them. Forspoken, Immortals of Aveum, Unknown 9: Awakening. Have you heard of these goddamn things? They cost something approaching 9 figures to make each. That's what a lower end AAA single player production costs. An industry entirely made up of self contained, unique premise justified works is what I would want of course. But right now, this AAA bleeding edge of unconscious consumer expectations, the market split along so many irrational and poorly quantified lines, this model is working for NOBODY right now.

What specific gaslighting are you talking about?

Here's an interview with Chris Deering, his job was to launch the PS1 in Europe. He gets asked in this about layoffs the industry is going through right now. The interviewer used this as a rage-hook to get people listening, but I thought on its face Deering was utterly reasonable.

Do tweets embed on this site? Let's try it.

https://x.com/SimonParkin/status/1833418977944514798

Is this gaslighting? If so, what's really going on?

Even you, self professed bearer of a unique and nonconformist mind are evidently victim of that. Failing to see the difference between paying 100 simoleons to a multibillion dollar company for a game stitched together from its hacked up pieces, whose developers will see pretty much zero of it, while not only enriching the suits but giving them the wrong ideas about what they should continue doing; and paying that amount for games - or even a single game: Pierre Begue is at least 100€ richer thanks to me, but that was a donation, mostly for sustenance, not strictly an exchange for his game - made by devs that will use that money to continue enriching the industry.
You're making specific charges on generalities now. That won't do at all. What have I spent 100 dollars on that was made out of hacked up pieces? I endorse microtransactions not as a matter of course, but to countersignal opposing them on principle, which I think is retarded and wrong. My point has always been that they can be and could be very good.


Lack of imagination is a serious drawback: imagine films where you have to pay extra for shots shot with different lenses
3D tickets.

, novels where you have to pay for richer prose,
That's just retarded and no workable comparison exists in video games. Closest we have is things like revised versions of novels released at full price, which are comparable to things like revised versions of video games also releasing at more cost or full price. Happens.
music albums where you have to pay for extra instrumental layers.
rrch8t.jpg

The ease of interchangeability and malleability in games may have given them the advantage on the analogous monetisation techniques, but if it wasn't the case, can you imagine cinephiles taking it in stride like gamers do? Many have been conditioned to simply accept it, mostly younger, usually brain addled people. It shouldn't be like that.
Kinophiles pay for blurays.

What remedy are you seeking?
...
I keep asking for some standard of calculation that can consistently be applied. You're asking for price controls.
I am definitely not asking for price controls, or even regulation - except for the most egregious cases like loot boxes or DRM - because I am aware of both their ineffectiveness and counterproductivity. I have already explained what my purpose is shitting on consoomer mentality instances: illuminating corporate anticonsumer practices and shaming anyone who partakes in them; thus allowing a small chance that the one offended will exercise a bit of critical thinking, analyse rationally his own interests and how they conflict with the corporate ones and maybe even rethink his purchasing habits in the end. It's not a revolution, it's just my one small act of kindness for my hobby.
I think you've highlighted shockingly few examples of real anticonsumer practices in this thread. Most of you have.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
10,238
Location
where east is west
Every studio making... you know I can't even tell what you want or what your idealised form for the industry is.
Maybe not the ideal final form, but going back to how it was at the late 90s would be a very good start.
You goddamn imbecile games were cheaper to make back then because there was such a hard limit on how much one could put into one, the economy was stronger, and the mass gaming audience didn't have optimised infinite time-sinks so they bought a succession of limited and complete works because this was all they could do. To restore the 90s you would have to actually restore the 90s.

How many people still believe that game production costs somehow perfectly scale with reasonably expected returns? This is NOT THE CASE. THIS IS THE PRIMARY DRIVING FACTOR OF MOST CHANGES IN INDUSTRY PRACTICES.

The only games seriously built around these new finance models are asian ones making stuff you were almost certainly never interested in in the first place.
Maybe it is true to some extent, but what if I wanted to try something different for a change? What if someone has different tastes than me but similar principles? Is he not fucked? What about someone who cares about the health of the artform as whole, end to end as well as its posterity and preservation?
And there are for example many cases like Paradox games being something that I am very much into yet being confronted with their heinous "monetisation" models certainly doesn't help.
If I cared about the health of the artform I would be trying to end usura. Since I may be the only Nazi here I am the only one with a leg to stand on with this issue.

If you want to play Zenless Zone Zero you can. You don't have to buy catcop and wolfbutler, you can just take who you get. And even if you do buy them, will you have spent as much as what a new western AAA costs at release?

I don't really see who is fucked here. Someone who likes Chinese JRPG aesthetics but got radicalised by white people youtube into a principled stance against MICROTRANSACTIONS?

No gun to your head. Buy it or don't.
...
We may have to kill some people.
...
I will give 100 dollars to EACH of these 4 games made by people who respect the artform and audience. Because if that's true, I will respect them. Quality demands respect. And respect looks like more than 25 dollars.
I am aware of the sad state of the average consumer's mind but I’m not at this point calling for corpo exec pogroms. I am simply illuminating the clashing of interests between gamers and the current monetisation models publishers frequently use, highlighting the absurdity of claiming the reversal of that is somehow "not financially viable", pointing the flagrant gaslighting that is being commited in real time by companies about all that and which fanboys all too willingly fall for.
The late single player self contained linear AAA western productions WERE NOT MAKING MONEY AND COST A FUCKING FORTUNE. Having to do well to merely break even on a 100 million dollar+ investment is suicidal business.

And you may have noticed, many western AAA releases have been bombing lately. It's still suicidal. The few still being made feel like weird leveraged projects. Maybe Neil Druckmann has access to some Epstein blackmail material and that's why he's able to force the production of The Last of Us in Space starring Gook-Spigger Hybrid. I can name so many big games that died and took god knows how many careers and businesses down with them. Forspoken, Immortals of Aveum, Unknown 9: Awakening. Have you heard of these goddamn things? They cost something approaching 9 figures to make each. That's what a lower end AAA single player production costs. An industry entirely made up of self contained, unique premise justified works is what I would want of course. But right now, this AAA bleeding edge of unconscious consumer expectations, the market split along so many irrational and poorly quantified lines, this model is working for NOBODY right now.

What specific gaslighting are you talking about?

Here's an interview with Chris Deering, his job was to launch the PS1 in Europe. He gets asked in this about layoffs the industry is going through right now. The interviewer used this as a rage-hook to get people listening, but I thought on its face Deering was utterly reasonable.

Do tweets embed on this site? Let's try it.

https://x.com/SimonParkin/status/1833418977944514798

Is this gaslighting? If so, what's really going on?

Even you, self professed bearer of a unique and nonconformist mind are evidently victim of that. Failing to see the difference between paying 100 simoleons to a multibillion dollar company for a game stitched together from its hacked up pieces, whose developers will see pretty much zero of it, while not only enriching the suits but giving them the wrong ideas about what they should continue doing; and paying that amount for games - or even a single game: Pierre Begue is at least 100€ richer thanks to me, but that was a donation, mostly for sustenance, not strictly an exchange for his game - made by devs that will use that money to continue enriching the industry.
You're making specific charges on generalities now. That won't do at all. What have I spent 100 dollars on that was made out of hacked up pieces? I endorse microtransactions not as a matter of course, but to countersignal opposing them on principle, which I think is retarded and wrong. My point has always been that they can be and could be very good.


Lack of imagination is a serious drawback: imagine films where you have to pay extra for shots shot with different lenses
3D tickets.

, novels where you have to pay for richer prose,
That's just retarded and no workable comparison exists in video games. Closest we have is things like revised versions of novels released at full price, which are comparable to things like revised versions of video games also releasing at more cost or full price. Happens.
music albums where you have to pay for extra instrumental layers.
rrch8t.jpg

The ease of interchangeability and malleability in games may have given them the advantage on the analogous monetisation techniques, but if it wasn't the case, can you imagine cinephiles taking it in stride like gamers do? Many have been conditioned to simply accept it, mostly younger, usually brain addled people. It shouldn't be like that.
Kinophiles pay for blurays.

What remedy are you seeking?
...
I keep asking for some standard of calculation that can consistently be applied. You're asking for price controls.
I am definitely not asking for price controls, or even regulation - except for the most egregious cases like loot boxes or DRM - because I am aware of both their ineffectiveness and counterproductivity. I have already explained what my purpose is shitting on consoomer mentality instances: illuminating corporate anticonsumer practices and shaming anyone who partakes in them; thus allowing a small chance that the one offended will exercise a bit of critical thinking, analyse rationally his own interests and how they conflict with the corporate ones and maybe even rethink his purchasing habits in the end. It's not a revolution, it's just my one small act of kindness for my hobby.
I think you've highlighted shockingly few examples of real anticonsumer practices in this thread. Most of you have.
I've come to the realization that post counts have become inadequate on the Codex thanks to GamerCat_ .

The post count needs to be replaced with a letter count~
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom