Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

How should armor function?

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Not fair denizsi, 'cause he used the dreaded word "realistic" without backing it up with any sources, hence my snarky reply.

And I agree spectre, in that Fallout's combat fell through towards the end, when you had a shitload of HP. Even if something could hurt you through hardened powerarmor, it wasn't able to whittle your health down quickly enough to really matter. If I remember correctly only Master was able to hurt my combat character.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,419
Location
Flowery Land
I personally never liked "hp as an abstraction" in worlds with existant magic. I can accept that in a world with magic, there are guys that can take 20 bullets to the face, but I can't belive that all the "hits" I make are really not.
 

revealer

Augur
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Crodex
weapon has dmg
armor has hp
character has hp

The dmg reduced to the character by the weapon dmges the armor hp.
DONE

btw only read the title
 

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
Depends on how detailed simulation you want to achieve and how complicated maths you can afford.

PnP - as simple rules as possible, always the easiest way to make the armor reduce your chance to get killed (well, except drowning :twisted: .)

CRPG - the calculations are done by the CPU and they are not so transparent, therefore it shouldn't hurt to have a detailed armor system taking into account various types of armor and damage, durability of the armor and whatever else.

At any case, heavy armor should have huge impact on both protection and mobility.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
On abstract layer I would make armour have two threshold values and percentage reduction for each damage type. Damage below first threshold would be nulled. Remaining damage below the second threshold would be reduced accordingly to the damage reduction and possibly transformed into different damage type (if weapons deal single type of damage it could transform for example slashing damage into blunt force trauma, if each weapon dealt different amounts of different damage types this would be unnecessary). Damage above the second threshold would bypass the armour and result in it being severely damaged (reflecting armour getting physically pierced or otherwise defeated). Armour would also have base chance of being bypassed (accounting for lack of coverage in some places) further modified by the type of weapon, skill of the attacker and other factors.
Hits could be critical (delivering crippling, potentially fatal damage to various body parts and organs) or non critical (cuts, flesh wounds and bruises).
Armour would hinder dodging and movement according to its weight and type.

Melee combat would revolve around techniques, counter-techniques, throwing enemy off balance, fatiguing him or striking a lucky crit - no whittling HPs down nonsense.

mondblut said:
Yeesh said:
But I don't think anyone can make a good case for bulky armor somehow making you harder to HIT, instead of harder to damage.

It does not make you "harder to hit". It reduces a statistical probability you'll suffer "damage" in a given period of time. Which is just how real armor works, statistically.

I have always interpreted it as such, but the problem is that dodges don't differentiate how much damage you're dodging, while absorbing it does. DnD-style AC works like dodging, not absorption in this aspect, which leads to all sorts of problems - as evidenced by house rules like those saying that your armour won't protect you from ceiling collapsing on you, even if your AC might seem to make it not only possible, but expected outcome.

Proper absorbtion might completely protect you from rock fired from a sling, but not from a collapsing tree. This can be used to help balance the lightly armoured agile characters like monks against historically-owning armoured juggernauts - they may not feel as safe as a knight when someone fires a weak weapon at them, but they will dodge if something tries to hit them with a fucking tree. In typical fantasy you often fight against non-humans of various shapes and sizes (or you might be a non-humanoid yourself).
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Kaucukovnik said:
CRPG - the calculations are done by the CPU and they are not so transparent, therefore it shouldn't hurt to have a detailed armor system taking into account various types of armor and damage, durability of the armor and whatever else.
In a cRPG I would consider the model I posted absolutely minimal - preferably it should involve words like "separate collision shells", and, at least once, "physical engine".
 

Korgan

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
4,238
Location
Fahrfromjuden
I didn't read the thread, but Incursion did armor perfectly right IMO. It has a Protection value and a Cover value, as well as its own HP and hardness as per D&D standarts. Protection soaks damage and Cover - a really nice touch - indicates how much the opponent needs to roll above your Defence (the evasion stat) to negate protection completely. If he beats your defense by half the armor's Cover, he gets half penetration, if he only barely hits (e.g. his attack bonus is +5 and you have 30 Defence so normal hits are impossible but he rolls a critical), there's no penetration and full protection is applied, etc. Simple and logical - a good chain shirt can absorb a slash from a random lucky hobgoblin, but if you're surrounded by drow blademasters it won't even hinder them.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Korgan said:
I didn't read the thread, but Incursion did armor perfectly right IMO. It has a Protection value and a Cover value, as well as its own HP and hardness as per D&D standarts. Protection soaks damage and Cover - a really nice touch - indicates how much the opponent needs to roll above your Defence (the evasion stat) to negate protection completely. If he beats your defense by half the armor's Cover, he gets half penetration, if he only barely hits (e.g. his attack bonus is +5 and you have 30 Defence so normal hits are impossible but he rolls a critical), there's no penetration and full protection is applied, etc. Simple and logical - a good chain shirt can absorb a slash from a random lucky hobgoblin, but if you're surrounded by drow blademasters it won't even hinder them.
Looks kind of skeletal even in comparison with my minimal model.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom