I am splintering tinder.

[Sandelfron]

I am both very very old (almost 16) and have multiple girlfriends. Therefore, I am quite superior to EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM! And for this reason alone, you guys should just shut up and do what I say.

still beat u ass on cs myron

ps UR ded

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Too much cynicism IS bad for you. Potatoes, on the other hand, are good for you. All is not as it seems. Vault Dweller is making a game. Can't we all just get along?

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

No.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I have very strong preferences. There is a difference between having preferences and opinions and being caustic and negative WITH those preferences and opinions, which I was trying to point out but you obviously do not have the mental capacity to analyze english.

Of course, there is a difference, you moron. One's a preference, another is a reaction, a result of having a preference. Duh!

Excuse me... Technology, time, and money are holding us back. As MSFD said, there is only so much time and money for this project and all the features may not make it in. They can only tweak it so much before you're gonna have to FUCKING DEAL.

Wow, you are stupid. Let's take it slowly. They made DF 10 years ago, then they made MW, which was a much smaller and simpler game in comparison. Now you are telling us that once they have the technology, they will make a game like DF again. When I pointed that out, you started crying about time and money.

That's the problem with some of the people here. Nobody wants to deal with life. They just want to bitch about it. Make your own fucking games for gods' sake. Go do something productive.

Go fuck yourself

I don't know what the average age is here but you'll feel it eventually. You'll stop fighting and stop hating yourself and life and realize how much all this pointless negative bullshit did to you.

That's gotta be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. Congratulations!

In response to the generic skills, such as simplifying blades and generic characters, let me just say this: FALLOUT: MELEE WEAPONS. Still one of the best games ever. Fucking deal

Your stupidity is fascinating. Did you conviniently forget about 5 more combat skills?

I don't know what you expect an RPG to be. It's a game where you play out your role. Shit, most games are RPGs in my eyes.

That's what I suspected.

This one is specifically designed to let you be awesome mage, awesome fighter, awesome thief...

Wow, look at all teh roel-playing!!!!

This is what RPGs do. Name one that doesn't turn you into Awesome (X).

You missed the point, stupid

I hope someone learned something from these posts.

We learned that you are a moron, does that count?

 

[Sandelfron]

..can't well all just get a long?..

You might as well ask a bag of enraged cats to get along.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

No.

It's true, though -- potatoes ARE good for you. They are an excellent source of potassium.

 

[Sandelfron]

More fascinating tuberological facts: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 474#144474

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

It's true, though -- potatoes ARE good for you. They are an excellent source of potassium.

I know, I'm a potato connoisseur. You can never have enough cynism, though - the world wouldn't be as hilarious without it. I add cynism to breakfast and put it under my pillow when I go to sleep.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey, Morsigil, didn't you say you were not coming back? You do know that I can see you lurking even though you picked "hide online status" option. How clevar!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It's true, though -- potatoes ARE good for you. They are an excellent source of potassium.

So are most meat products and they're not loaded with starch carbohydrates.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Stop whining about food like you're old ladies! It's NOURISHMENT plus TASTE, what the fuck does "cancer risk" have to do with it?

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Greetings, all.

As another TES fanboy (well, I only played MW actually), perhaps I can pick up where Morsigil left off. Except, preferably, without the name-calling and such. I'd like to debate the merits of Oblivion (or what we know of it) and figure out why we have such a radically different conception of what's coming. I think that the most likely scenario is that we are using different judging criteria, but we'll see.

Somebody (VD perhaps?) post your reasons for why you have low expectations for Oblivion, and I'll try to rebut on a point-by-point basis.

 

[Sandelfron]

Stop whining about food like you're old ladies! It's NOURISHMENT plus TASTE, what the fuck does "cancer risk" have to do with it?

Tchoh! Someone's setting themselves up for a rectal prolapse in their mid 30s.

 

[Sandelfron]

Somebody (VD perhaps?) post your reasons for why you have low expectations for Oblivion, and I'll try to rebut on a point-by-point basis.

It's gladiatorial; you'll have to work your way up before VD will even look at your posts.

 

[Twinfalls]

Can I be a potato in Oblibion, MSFD? That way I'd be an UBER TUBER
lololololio

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Stop whining about food like you're old ladies! It's NOURISHMENT plus TASTE, what the fuck does "cancer risk" have to do with it?

Tchoh! Someone's setting themselves up for a rectal prolapse in their mid 30s.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

Anything that doesn't poison you is good for you if you can restrain yourself from overeating and eat it in good proportion to other foodstuffs.

Then again, restraining and balancing is bleh, so, hey, eat whatever you want.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

I like some black tar heroin in my breakfast cereal every once in a while.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Somebody (VD perhaps?) post your reasons for why you have low expectations for Oblivion, and I'll try to rebut on a point-by-point basis.

Fair enough. It's a long story, but here is a short version:

1) MW. Comparing to DF, which you haven't played, MW was a watered and dumbed down version that lacked substance and featured less of everything that made DF a great game. I can go into details here if you want.

MW basically sacrificed gameplay elements for graphics. It was also a successful game, so from a business point of view I don't expect Bethesda to abandon the magic formula. What's known about Oblivion shows that the trend continues.

MW was a decent exploration game, but a poor RPG. I'm sure that Oblivion will look spectacular and would be an even better exploration game, but I'm talking about its RPG aspects here

2) So far, what's been revealed is fluff, nothing that I personally care about in an RPG: soil erosion, awesome forests, PATRIC STEWART!!!, RAI, etc. Considering that the game could be released in a few months, there isn't much time left to reveal the 90% that's (allegedly) missing.

3) The gameplay features sound even more dumbed down than those of MW: less skills, one Blade skill instead of S/Blade and L/Blade, being able to cast spells while hacking someone with a sword, join ALL guilds and get to the top of ALL of them, xbows and throwing weapons being traded for bows' graphics, moron indicators, focus on classes, actiony combat, etc

Here is a collection of quotes that many people found amusing:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 62&start=0

 

[Sandelfron]

I like some black tar heroin in my breakfast cereal every once in a while.

Snap, crack and pop. M'licious. I'd avoid putting sugar on though; bad for you.

 

[Atrokkus]

Somebody (VD perhaps?) post your reasons for why you have low expectations for Oblivion, and I'll try to rebut on a point-by-point basis.

Oh, you can't even imagine how many times it was posted here, over and over.
The main reason is that most of us here don't like Morrowind for its absence of actual roleplaying. No dialogs, no really important decisions that may change the world, or soem NPC's life, so freedom was only geographical. Basically, you were just progressing through thte main plot, linearily, while doing fedex quests in guilds and towns. Guilds were a joke, really. A couple of quests and HEY you are teh guildmaste! and thus your involvement in guild's life is over: nothing to do. (in, say, BG2 guilds were MUCH better). So, the main reason to play morrowind came down to exporing the world (just looking at stuff) and pimping up your character to ultimate uberness. IF that's what you call good roleplaying then, well, our gaming mindsets are totally incompatible.

Not that I hate morrowind or soemthing, it's a fun game, but it's surely not a real RPG, not in my book at least.

That's the reason why we think that Oblivion won't be a real RPG, because it tends to take the core-aspects of Morrowind and just add a lot of extra layers, but not changing the core one bit. Of course, we may be wrong, and of course, it's too early to say some big words like "Oblivion will suck". It just might not, but hell I'm not that certain.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

1) MW. Comparing to DF, which you haven't played, MW was a watered and dumbed down version that lacked substance and featured less of everything that made DF a great game. I can go into details here if you want.

MW basically sacrificed gameplay elements for graphics. It was also a successful game, so from a business point of view I don't expect Bethesda to abandon the magic formula. What's known about Oblivion shows that the trend continues.

MW was a decent exploration game, but a poor RPG. I'm sure that Oblivion will look spectacular and would be an even better exploration game, but I'm talking about its RPG aspects here

While your criticisms in relation to DF are probably valid, I can't get much out of them (having not played DF). Perhaps going into detail would work, but it would be much appreciated if you could somehow construct the same argument independant of DF references.

As for the second point, I suspect that we are viewing the game from entirely different perspectives. I don't think I can truly respond effectively since I don't know exactly what is the definition used around these parts for what an RPG is. I consider MW to be a great RPG based on character growth and immersion. So, in your PoV, what are "RPG aspects"?

2) So far, what's been revealed is fluff, nothing that I personally care about in an RPG: soil erosion, awesome forests, PATRIC STEWART!!!, RAI, etc. Considering that the game could be released in a few months, there isn't much time left to reveal the 90% that's (allegedly) missing.

Soil erosion is just a cool technical stunt, and Stewart's voice acting is a big deal to some people I guess, so I'll agree that things like that are fluff.

Forests and RAI, on the other hand, are intented to improve the immersion factor. Nobody has done good-looking 3D forests before (to my knowledge), and RAI is designed to fix a major problem with MW (lifeless NPCs). I think that these, especially the latter, are important steps towards the whole TES goal of "building a world". Lots of games can give you a fantastic linear experience, but few games can set you free in a world and let you build the character from there.

MW and Oblivion will not reach that goal, but they will come closer than any other game has, I believe. There is only one main quest, and quest lines are linear, but by offering a choice of several deep quest lines as well as a host of miscellaneous quests, TES can offer an unprecedented amount of freedom.

3) The gameplay features sound even more dumbed down than those of MW: fewer skills, one Blade skill instead of S/Blade and L/Blade, being able to cast spells while hacking someone with a sword, join ALL guilds and get to the top of ALL of them, xbows and throwing weapons being traded for bows' graphics, moron indicators, focus on classes, actiony combat, etc

Fewer skills: While I'm not happy with the merging of the Blade skills, I think that the fewer skills will improve gameplay. A lot of the cuts seem very logical. Mercantile was useless by itself, and Speechcraft was not good enough for me to use it as a major skill, but it's perfectly logical to combine the two. Enchanting is no longer a skill. And the weapons skills have been cut back so that a warrior is not quite so limited. I may be entirely wrong; perhaps we're just losing content. But I suspect that it will work out to be better than MW.

Casting spells in combat: I, for one, have always wanted to play a spellsword-type character where I could strike with a sword and follow up with some minor fire spell to tip them off balance. In MW I couldn't; with Oblivion I can. Sounds good to me. Remember that this is not just making it easy to have an uber-character; there are penalties designed to balance things out.

Joining all guilds: I don't really see why this is a problem; you are not forced to do so, so the role-playing aspect does not seem to be affected. Aside from that, you won't be able to do as well in all guilds. In MW I sure as hell couldn't get through the Thieves' Guild quests as a fighter and vice-versa.

Focus on bows: I'll miss my throwing weapons. But if the sacrifice of throwing weapons and crossbows means that bows will be done very well, I'll take it.

Moron indicators: Unfortunate but necessary. It really depends on how they're implemented. If you see some peasant who is marked as essential, it's something of a giveaway. On the other hand, if it's just people like Grandmasters and Counts, I don't see how it's that big a deal. Plus, it has to be done in some way or another. MW told you, but it was frustrating to only see it afterwards.

Focus on classes: I think that most characters that are not one of the three main classes are some combination of the three. The Paladin is mostly combat with some magic. The Ranger is a split between combat and stealth. The Battlemage is mostly magic with some combat. The Nightblade is a split of magic and stealth. And in pretty much any situation, you will use these differing advantages and strengths to accomplish your goal through stealth, magic, or combat. By creating the world with the knowledge of these three classes, every character will have a legitimate, fun, yet slightly different way of playing.

Actiony combat: Why is this bad, so long as the game still places an emphasis on stats? They've said that a normal character has no chance against someone with a Blade skill of 100. Spell duels sure as hell will be stat-based. So if the game is made more fun in the process, it seems like it's only a good thing.

Here is a collection of quotes that many people found amusing:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 62&start=0

Already read it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks for your post, Tetragrammaton. I don't have time for a thoughtful reply right now - busy time at work, but I'll definitely reply later on today.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Oblivion could be the best game ever and people will find some reason to whine about it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

True. Oblivion could also suck, and people will still praise it.