I finally understand why JRPG like Tactics Ogre fuckin rocks

[Clockwork Knight]

The PSX version is renowned for its shitty translation. PSP version fixed it. Matsunos writing is really good, always focusing on political intrigue instead of saving the world nonsense.

Don't open that!

Oh, Wiegraf. To think you were so simple to understand.

: ...the fuck?

 

[spekkio]

Vagrant Story is a really bad game if you take off your late '90s JRPG goggles. Some guy said earlier in the thread that it has no filler - not so! It is almost all filler. You fight the same bosses several times each (with most coming back as normal enemies as some point, too), the room geometries are repeated endlessly, the (retarded) rules design of the game favors you switching weapons constantly yet there is no way to do it without multiple-layer menufucking, the button timing game gets old aboout 1/20th of the way into the game, etc. etc.

The story is told fairly well, the translation is too good for video games and it had Final Fantasy comedy hair and beltshitting bondage gear character designs so it became a cult game, but it's actually no good if you really pay attention.

I've completed this game 2 or 3 times and I can tell that most of your points can be considered vaild.
But except the constant weapon switching, none of them bothered me that much.
This game does perfectly one of my favorite things in games: the lonely / desolated / whatever feel.
Only few games in the history did it right: Thief 1 (fuck year zombie missions), ICO, Vagrant Story... and that's all that I can come up with ATM.

You're right about the 'cult status' as well I think. This game has same status as first Fallout in the West: many newfags praise it, but most of them haven't played it...

 

[Lockkaliber]

Oh, Wiegraf.

They couldn't even get his name right. It was supposed to be Wiglaf, from Beowulf.

you do fight many of the same bosses again. Several different phantoms and dragons with different elements. I found each fight to be equally exciting though.

Yeah, but all of those have different attacks and abilities each time you meet a new one so I don't really see his point. Besides that, didn't the various dragons belong to different species and have different skins as well?

Also, his complaints about the rules system makes him sound like a casual. Vagrant Story was a modern jRPG with a (for once) actually deep stat system, even though it was limited to your equipment. The stat system with affinities and elements had a pretty steep learning curve (not unlike some of the dungeon crawlers of our own favourite genre) but was really rewarding once you got th hang of it.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yeah, all the phantoms and dragons had different skins. I think the earth dragon had a different model too.

 

[Zomg]

I don't want to run it down too much, the main problems are that it has about 5-6 hours of content strung out into like 20-30 hours of game and the interface doesn't match the incentives. And they also pussied out with the items, the risk-reducing potions make the whole risk system pointless. And you use them instantly from a time-stopped menu too, classic RPG gameplay. Maybe I do want to run it down, actually.

The speedrun guy dude mentioned is probably using the ability that lets you do damage depending on how injured you are, which lets you "instantly" kill any enemy and completely ignore the entire game system of affinities, risk and gear in exchange for being really good at the button timing game. ...

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yeah, Raging Ache. He pretty much ran the whole gauntlet with around 60 HP and raped everything.

 

[Heresiarch]

Heh, jrpgs being seriously discussed and even praised on the Codex. I must be seeing things.

I think the reason why JRPG got shunned so much before was that the most popular ones were ones like FF7, which all have cheesy giant swords and spiky hairs and of course juvenile oriented stories. This in turn gives people the JRPG IS FOR FAGGOTS stereotype. Of course now more guys in the 'Dex are seeing the light after getting in touch with games like TO or the Rance series, knowing that there are good JRPG out there, even a hentai game have better gameplay than most serious western games out there.

I think it's like most general gameplayers nowadays consider the stereotype of WRPG should be GRIM DARK MATURE or XTREME, not forget there should be romance, bromance, alien sex or elf sex involved, but in reality the good stuff should be oldskool stuff with brutal combat, permadeath and a complicated storyline.

 

[spekkio]

I've tested the '1.3 Eastype Complete' version and here are some comparision screenshots (1st one vanilla, 2nd one Mod:

So the PSP translation is definitelly 'more wordy'...

 

[spekkio]

I think the reason why JRPG got shunned so much before was that the most popular ones were ones like FF7, which all have cheesy giant swords and spiky hairs and of course juvenile oriented stories. This in turn gives people the JRPG IS FOR FAGGOTS stereotype. Of course now more guys in the 'Dex are seeing the light after getting in touch with games like TO or the Rance series, knowing that there are good JRPG out there, even a hentai game have better gameplay than most serious western games out there.

8/10, would troll again.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Reminds me of the comparison with the old FF4 translation and then the new one.

 

[turn_based_fanboy]

Heh, jrpgs being seriously discussed and even praised on the Codex. I must be seeing things.

I think the reason why JRPG got shunned so much before was that the most popular ones were ones like FF7, which all have cheesy giant swords and spiky hairs and of course juvenile oriented stories. This in turn gives people the JRPG IS FOR FAGGOTS stereotype. Of course now more guys in the 'Dex are seeing the light after getting in touch with games like TO or the Rance series, knowing that there are good JRPG out there, even a hentai game have better gameplay than most serious western games out there.

I think it's like most general gameplayers nowadays consider the stereotype of WRPG should be GRIM DARK MATURE or XTREME, not forget there should be romance, bromance, alien sex or elf sex involved, but in reality the good stuff should be oldskool stuff with brutal combat, permadeath and a complicated storyline.

Nah probably it's more of the matter that if you want to play turn based rpg you better start liking anime

 

[made]

Hmm. I downloaded "Final Fantasy Tactics v1.3 - Easy Type (USA) [Hack by FFHacktics v1.3030] ISO" from emuparadise and it doesn't have the updated dialogue. No "hithertofore" for me. :/

 

[Rpgsaurus]

Easytype

 

[Rpgsaurus]

Hmm. I downloaded "Final Fantasy Tactics v1.3 - Easy Type (USA) [Hack by FFHacktics v1.3030] ISO" from emuparadise and it doesn't have the updated dialogue. No "hithertofore" for me. :/

You got to look for "FFT Complete + Easytype". "Easytype" by itself is just a version of 1.3. Complete is the PSP translation on PSX.

Also, there is a 1.3038 version for 1.3, not sure about Easytype (it usually lags behind on updates) - check out insanedifficulty (for 1.3 normal) and ffhacktics (for Easytype). The are many new features added with every 1.3* version.

 

[spekkio]

Hmm. I downloaded "Final Fantasy Tactics v1.3 - Easy Type (USA) [Hack by FFHacktics v1.3030] ISO" from emuparadise and it doesn't have the updated dialogue. No "hithertofore" for me. :/

1. Download orignal (lol untouched) image from intrawebz (snesorama FTW)
2. Patch it using one of four patches (all of them available here):
a) 1.3 Hardcore (normal) + old translation: PSX_13038.ppf
b) 1.3 Easymode (pussy) + old translation: PSX_Easytype_13035a.ppf
c) 1.3 Easymode (pussy) + new translation: PSX_13035ez_Complete.ppf
d) regular gameplay + new translation: fftcv50.ppf from this link



e) regular gameplay + old translation = vanilla.

3. ???
4.

 

[made]

Thanks bros. So is Easytype actually easier than vanilla, or just easier than regular 1.3? Which should I go with for a first (and only) playthrough?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Does anyone prefer the PSP translation over the PSX one (not counting spelling fixes and the like - though those were hilarious enough to forgive)?

And why the fuck did they turn the priest into a woman? Seems so fucking random.

Reminds me of the comparison with the old FF4 translation and then the new one.

FF5's Faris (the pirate girl that pretended to be a man) got three different accents. One in the snes translation (regular spelling) ,one in the PSX version (full or ARR ME HEARTIES), and one for the gba (toned down pirate speak, iirc).

edit: @Spekkio: So 1.13 Hardcore + New translation isn't possible?

 

[spekkio]

Easytype is just easier than regular 1.3?

This

Go with either vanilla or 1.3 easytype (better gameplay than in vanilla) + complete (better translation) IMO.

 

[Rpgsaurus]

Thanks bros. So is Easytype actually easier than vanilla, or just easier than regular 1.3? Which should I go with for a first (and only) playthrough?

Depends on what you want.

If you're in for the story and fun, easy combat (customizable to high heavens), go 1.3 Easytype - optionally with Complete. It will take you maybe 30+ hours to finish, if you take it nice and slow.

If you want a hard-as-nails tactical challenge, go 1.3 normal. A wholly different mindset from vanilla + Easytype - not really an RPG, as you will need to be completely flexible in your party setup and not get really attached to any one character or class. A lot of fun and memorable encounters, some really frustrating moments too.

Both are fun in their own way. You may want to start Easytype first, however, and see if that's too easy for you and then switch to 1.3 (or the other way round), since I think saves are mostly interchangeable - at least for the same 13* versions.

 

[desocupado]

I was very interested, until I read that the thing features level scalling.

What's the point of leveling up and aquiring skills if your enemies are also leveling up and aquiring skills?

I mean, doesn't it end up the same in the end?

It killed all my interest.

 

[Rpgsaurus]

I was very interested, until I read that the thing features level scalling.

What's the point of leveling up and aquiring skills if your enemies are also leveling up and aquiring skills?

I mean, doesn't it end up the same in the end?

It killed all my interest.

Vanilla doesn't feature any level scaling.

The only reason why level scaling was introduced into 1.3 was to make to discourage "grinding" and massively out-leveling your enemies (which was relatively easy to do in vanilla), making the game too easy.

The "point of leveling" when level-scaling is present is that, as game progresses, you acquire new skills and classes and so your party setup becomes more flexible to tackle new challenges that the game throws at you:

As you get level 2 squire, you unlock knight. As you level 3 knight, you unlock monk. And so on. Neither class is better than the other "objectively", all have their uses in some situations but not in others (e.g. squire is versatile, knight is tank with some debuffs, monk has no armor but dishes out good damage). There are a ton of different strategies and setups, more are unlocked as you level (something of a learning curve).

tl;dt: this is not a free-roaming sandbox RPG a la Oblivion where level scaling makes no sense and reduces the sense of accomplishment (aka "bandits with crystal armor"). 1.3 is a turn-based strategy with RPG elements, where "RPG elements" are very secondary indeed (unlike vanilla, which felt like an RPG with some strategy elements thrown in).

 

[Damned Registrations]

Aside from that, leveled players do shit that the leveled computer doesn't. A leveled player might, for example, combine a monk's awesome counter attacking ability with a mediator's ability to equip guns, and equip a subset of summoner, allowing the character to counter-rape enemy archers and swordsmen trying to take advantage of long ass casting times on summoning spells. Computer units tend to have fairly boring linear skillsets, so you'll get a summoner with black magic or time magic, and subskills from those classes as well. The enemy's power really only matches your own if you're using monsters, which don't learn any new skills and can't change classes.

 

[Stabwound]

I was very interested, until I read that the thing features level scalling.

What's the point of leveling up and aquiring skills if your enemies are also leveling up and aquiring skills?

I mean, doesn't it end up the same in the end?

It killed all my interest.

Vanilla doesn't feature any level scaling.

That is actually false. Some of the story battles had level scaling, as well as most random encounters.

 

[spekkio]

@Spekkio: So 1.13 Hardcore + New translation isn't possible?

Well, I haven't found it in any of the stickies on the main pages (to my surprise). But maybe somebody created such patch - you have to browse through the FFH forums on your own...

 

[Rpgsaurus]

I was very interested, until I read that the thing features level scalling.

What's the point of leveling up and aquiring skills if your enemies are also leveling up and aquiring skills?

I mean, doesn't it end up the same in the end?

It killed all my interest.

Vanilla doesn't feature any level scaling.

That is actually false. Some of the story battles had level scaling, as well as most random encounters.

Just checked the FAQ, we're both half-right. Story battles in fact have zero scaling for most units (including bosses), but random encounters are always scaled to your level.

In other words, it should read:

"Vanilla doesn't feature enough level scaling for it to matter in any way rather than to help you level-grind towards beating story battles."