I just played Quake 2

[DraQ]

I still think, that all discussion derailed a bit into more o less derpy, more or less eloQuent elaborates about personal favorites style of playing FPP, instead cold and emotionless look at the design of maps. Evaluation of design, in sake of... erm... evolution of design (e.g role of alternate routes, HL has few of them, Q2 has, IIRC, a substantial more, HL maps are rather simply connected each together, with zero backtracking (not counting a beginning here) while Q2 hubs are more complicated and backtrack-friendly etc.).

Ps. Or, I'm totally clueless...?

Except the design of maps (or, more precisely layout in the sense we're using it here) is just one of the components of an FPS.

Yes, in terms of layout/flow Q2 has an edge over HL, it also has unquestionable advantage in terms of damage skins (as HL has none).
So what? HL has it ground to dust in *every* single remaining aspect.

 

[CorpseZeb]

... not argue here, HL's better. But, Imho, overall simpler design of HL is far more better connected to the rest of game (to the rest elements of the game), while superior design of Q2 just... hung in air.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Also, RG in Q2 doesn't require much precision - models have only roughly calculated, large hitboxes and there is no locational damage. If you can see it, hitting it with RG is trivial.

There's locational damage. Headshots do higher damage and hitting armoured parts does lesser damage.

In Q2 I died exactly once to enemy fire, in warehouse hub, because I started spacing out and getting shot at took me completely by surprise (as in "I got startled and didn't know what the fuck was happening").

 

[DraQ]

Also, RG in Q2 doesn't require much precision - models have only roughly calculated, large hitboxes and there is no locational damage. If you can see it, hitting it with RG is trivial.

There's locational damage. Headshots do higher damage and hitting armoured parts does lesser damage.

And how do you check it in game?

I know for sure that you do 2x damage on surprise attack (at least with RG), but there is no weapon in game that's precise enough to actually score headshots apart from RG (HB or even RL would qualify, but enemies can duck projectiles and become about half as high as their crouching mesh would indicate so head is no longer particularly shootable at this point) and RG is pwnage no matter where it hits.

The big room where you place an explosive box with a crane to blow up the door (not the one where you punch through a door with another crane). There are walkways high above, weird lift thingies, some crates and a parasite. I got successfully gunned down by a gunner on one of the walkways. Once. In the entire game. Because I almost snoozed and he took me off guard.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Also, RG in Q2 doesn't require much precision - models have only roughly calculated, large hitboxes and there is no locational damage. If you can see it, hitting it with RG is trivial.

There's locational damage. Headshots do higher damage and hitting armoured parts does lesser damage.

And how do you check it in game?[/quote]
By shooting enemies. When I shoot them in the head, they died much faster - I think the first basic guy dies from 1 shot.
I had trouble killing the guys with minigun arms when not shooting them in the face - they took several shotgun shots in the chest.

The big room where you place an explosive box with a crane to blow up the door (not the one where you punch through a door with another crane). There are walkways high above, weird lift thingies, some crates and a parasite. I got successfully gunned down by a gunner on one of the walkways. Once. In the entire game. Because I almost snoozed and he took me off guard.

Are you a pro-FPS-player or some kind of a cyborg, maybe?

 

[DraQ]

By shooting enemies. When I shoot them in the head, they died much faster - I think the first basic guy dies from 1 shot.

I had trouble killing the guys with minigun arms when not shooting them in the face - they took several shotgun shots in the chest.

Well, they normally take 1 SSG shot at point-blank.

In any case, even if you're right (because I can't just dismiss such possibility), there is very limited impact it has on gameplay, because most weapons are either projectile-based or very inaccurate hitscans, precluding precise aiming most of the time.

Are you a pro-FPS-player or some kind of a cyborg, maybe?

I think I'm about average FPS player, maybe slightly above average. Not by competitive DM player standards either. And I'm pretty certain it was the first time I launched Q2 in this century.

Counter question - ever tried playing any FPS game from comparable era on similar difficulty setting? For example for Q2 on hard try playing through Unreal, Half-Life, or Q1 on hard, or maybe Blood on Well Done. Notice the disparity in difficulty (manifesting in you getting face full of rape) between them and Q2.

Hell, my GF once put every Strogg (including a tank, gladiator, gunner, medic and so on) she could fit in cells behind the bars (well, forcefield) on jail level back when the game was new (without using cheats), just because she was bored. Granted, this loses a bit impact when you account for the fact my GF is one of the rare examples of female players who play FPSes (and is partial towards RPG elements, doesn't like TB, though) rather than Sims, and she can actually slightly outbadass me in DM (more than slightly in Q3 if we need to be this precise), but still.

Edit:

Checked. SG guard takes three hits from blasters on hard regardless whether you shoot him in the ankles or face, which is consisted with the information on wiki stating that he has 30HP and blaster does 10 damage in SP. No area damage multipliers detected.

Enforcer takes 3 shots from SG, similarly without any visible differences caused by hit area.
Also consistent with wiki information stating 100HP and max 48 damage per shell for SG, it's 60 per shell for SSG which is also consistent with enforcers biting the dust after just one salvo from this baby.

If I have save with RG anywhere near gunner may make a conclusive test - gunners have just 175HP, RG does 150 damage. If headshots (against aware target) do any extra damage, this should show it.

 

[villain of the story]

I should play Q2 again sometime. At least it should go over quickly since it's a relatively fast game. My memory is very hazy on level design. When I think of Q2, all I remember is brown vomit everywhere I looked and the constant beeping of the personal thingamajig that gives you messages like beep-beep you got the red key, beep-beep you need the red key, beep-beep you need the commander's head - go kill him, beep-beep you got the commander's head - go open the door.

Has anything changed since release date and now? Do I need to know anything?

 

[villain of the story]

Counter question - ever tried playing any FPS game from comparable era on similar difficulty setting? For example for Q2 on hard try playing through Unreal, Half-Life, or Q1 on hard, or maybe Blood on Well Done. Notice the disparity in difficulty (manifesting in you getting face full of rape) between them and Q2.

One of the saddening changes is that dying used to be a fun experience in old games. It was an experience you appreciated seeing every now and then. In some games, funny things happened when you died or it was a visually satisfying event. Now, you barely die in games and even when you do, it's the blandest thing. I appreciated Dead Space for this, it often had carefully crafted dying sequences. It's game you need to die a lot to fully appreciate.

Hell, my GF once put every Strogg (including a tank, gladiator, gunner, medic and so on) she could fit in cells behind the bars (well, forcefield) on jail level back when the game was new (without using cheats), just because she was bored. Granted, this loses a bit impact when you account for the fact my GF is one of the rare examples of female players who play FPSes (and is partial towards RPG elements, doesn't like TB, though) rather than Sims, and she can actually slightly outbadass me in DM (more than slightly in Q3 if we need to be this precise), but still.

That is one hell of a girlfriend. Where do you live again? Wanna exchange our gf-porn folders?

 

[DraQ]

Hell, my GF once put every Strogg (including a tank, gladiator, gunner, medic and so on) she could fit in cells behind the bars (well, forcefield) on jail level back when the game was new (without using cheats), just because she was bored. Granted, this loses a bit impact when you account for the fact my GF is one of the rare examples of female players who play FPSes (and is partial towards RPG elements, doesn't like TB, though) rather than Sims, and she can actually slightly outbadass me in DM (more than slightly in Q3 if we need to be this precise), but still.

That is one hell of a girlfriend. Where do you live again? Wanna exchange our gf-porn folders?

No, thanks - I like being alive.

Edit:
No such save, so I had to console myself a railgun, machinegun (for fending off guards before getting to the test subjects) and console warp to receiving center.
Nope. Always 2 shots from RG or 1RG and 3 blaster shots to down a gunner, regardless of RG hit location, so RG doesn't do even 5HP extra damage on headshots.

Awor Szurkrarz , you're wrong.

Maybe you were doing stealth kills with RG (2x damage if target is unaware) and thought extra damage was from headshots?

I should play Q2 again sometime. At least it should go over quickly since it's a relatively fast game. My memory is very hazy on level design. When I think of Q2, all I remember is brown vomit everywhere I looked and the constant beeping of the personal thingamajig that gives you messages like beep-beep you got the red key, beep-beep you need the red key, beep-beep you need the commander's head - go kill him, beep-beep you got the commander's head - go open the door.

Has anything changed since release date and now? Do I need to know anything?

We meant design in terms of layout - general shape and arrangement of rooms, corridors and hazards, rather than textures, decorations and what those are supposed to be in game. Layout is p. good in Q2, aesthetics, art direction, diversity, and pretty much everything else is indeed shit.

"beep-beep" can be disabled by activating the little shit with F1 ASAP.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Are you a pro-FPS-player or some kind of a cyborg, maybe?

I think I'm about average FPS player, maybe slightly above average. Not by competitive DM player standards either. And I'm pretty certain it was the first time I launched Q2 in this century.

Counter question - ever tried playing any FPS game from comparable era on similar difficulty setting? For example for Q2 on hard try playing through Unreal, Half-Life, or Q1 on hard, or maybe Blood on Well Done. Notice the disparity in difficulty (manifesting in you getting face full of rape) between them and Q2.

I have found Q1 on hard much easier than Q2 on medium.

Edit:

Checked. SG guard takes three hits from blasters on hard regardless whether you shoot him in the ankles or face, which is consisted with the information on wiki stating that he has 30HP and blaster does 10 damage in SP. No area damage multipliers detected.

Enforcer takes 3 shots from SG, similarly without any visible differences caused by hit area.
Also consistent with wiki information stating 100HP and max 48 damage per shell for SG, it's 60 per shell for SSG which is also consistent with enforcers biting the dust after just one salvo from this baby.

If I have save with RG anywhere near gunner may make a conclusive test - gunners have just 175HP, RG does 150 damage. If headshots (against aware target) do any extra damage, this should show it.

Weird. I'll gave to check it again.

 

[Berekän]

Both of you know you must make a Q2 multiplayer match to settle this.

 

[Astral Rag]

I should play Q2 again sometime.

Has anything changed since release date and now? Do I need to know anything?

Yes people went full retard. Stay away from engine modifications and all that jazz, just adjust the resolution and have fun.

http://widescreengamingforum.com/software/quakeii-exe-widescreen-support

 

[villain of the story]

It gets old and mind numbing fast.

What we need is Codex RTCW/W:ET MP nights with enough people to have meaningful teamplay.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Operation Flashpoint.

No such save, so I had to console myself a railgun, machinegun (for fending off guards before getting to the test subjects) and console warp to receiving center.
Nope. Always 2 shots from RG or 1RG and 3 blaster shots to down a gunner, regardless of RG hit location, so RG doesn't do even 5HP extra damage on headshots.

Awor Szurkrarz , you're wrong.

Maybe you were doing stealth kills with RG (2x damage if target is unaware) and thought extra damage was from headshots?

Oh. I don't know. I just started playing it. I'm stuck on the Lost Station, so I don't have a RG yet.

 

[DraQ]

Operation Flashpoint.

No such save, so I had to console myself a railgun, machinegun (for fending off guards before getting to the test subjects) and console warp to receiving center.
Nope. Always 2 shots from RG or 1RG and 3 blaster shots to down a gunner, regardless of RG hit location, so RG doesn't do even 5HP extra damage on headshots.

Awor Szurkrarz , you're wrong.

Maybe you were doing stealth kills with RG (2x damage if target is unaware) and thought extra damage was from headshots?

Oh. I don't know. I just started playing it. I'm stuck on the Lost Station, so I don't have a RG yet.

What point are you stuck in?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Operation Flashpoint.

No such save, so I had to console myself a railgun, machinegun (for fending off guards before getting to the test subjects) and console warp to receiving center.
Nope. Always 2 shots from RG or 1RG and 3 blaster shots to down a gunner, regardless of RG hit location, so RG doesn't do even 5HP extra damage on headshots.

Awor Szurkrarz , you're wrong.

Maybe you were doing stealth kills with RG (2x damage if target is unaware) and thought extra damage was from headshots?

Oh. I don't know. I just started playing it. I'm stuck on the Lost Station, so I don't have a RG yet.

What point are you stuck in?

Currently at the point when I get killed by drones on the starting station when trying to get out of the level.

 

[DraQ]

Currently at the point when I get killed by drones on the starting station when trying to get out of the level.

Maybe you can upload the save somewhere? I'm curious.

(Also, is there any registration-free file upload service?)

 

[Berekän]

DraQ Mediafire's great

 

[DraQ]

Now for Awor Szurkrarz to reply...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4rzi61gbt0746es/current.zip

 

[DraQ]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4rzi61gbt0746es/current.zip

That's your "entering level" save - is that it?

A bit low on health and SG ammo (also grenades), but plenty of mg ammo, so it should be workable. MG is a pretty universal tool of trade. I'll try to figure out this whole "demo recording" process and maybe try to upload end level save + demo.

 

[shihonage]

It gets old and mind numbing fast.

What we need is Codex RTCW/W:ET MP nights with enough people to have meaningful teamplay.

No, Quake Wars: ET. That game is fucking awesome after all the patches. During which most people abandoned it, of course.

 

[villain of the story]

I never liked it. The Strogg shit puts me off every time I play + shitty level design and shitty equipment. And it has nothing on the immense amount of variation with objectives in user maps for ET.

 

[shihonage]

I only play the Strogg, because it's got the best weapons and very Tribes-y jetpacks and Mechs. The game has a ton of atmosphere and depth to the mechanics. They fused the visual/audio stuff perfectly, it's like a little world of its own.

 

[DraQ]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4rzi61gbt0746es/current.zip

That's your "entering level" save - is that it?

A bit low on health and SG ammo (also grenades), but plenty of mg ammo, so it should be workable. MG is a pretty universal tool of trade. I'll try to figure out this whole "demo recording" process and maybe try to upload end level save + demo.

Bumpdate:

I have the ironmaned demo+save before level exit (spoiler alert - contains all secrets).

Got hit a few times but nothing serious (once because I stumbled into a group of freshly spawned guards while expecting the level to be cleared).

Excuse my a bit slow and chaotic style, I'm a bit tired today, so there were several fuck-ups on my part, most notably with grenades (I forgot how useless they were and ho much I suck at throwing them - give me the ones from STALKER or at least HL, FFS, Blood's dynamite will do as well), but also with drowning a bit, missing a ledge from the lift, inefficient level traversal and, well, most of the hits received.


Also, I relied on sound cues a lot (no soundtrack) - enemy specific sounds and such, so the moments where I just stood there were mostly me listening to stuff.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c42aa2e/n/derp.zip
Here are the files, I used fail factory to avoid having to register.

to see the demo type "map derp.dm2" in Q2 console.

All in all quite a bit derpy playthrough on my part (hence the filename), but I still wasn't hit much BECAUSE I WAS FIGHTING CYBERNETIC RETARDS WITH NO REFLEXES WHATSOEVER.
Like I said - execution simulator, nothing more.