Icewind Dale Icewind Dale is a very boring, bad game

[Trashos]

For the 100th time, IWD has barely any trash encounters. There are no random encounters, barely any repetition of monsters and all of them are where they're supposed to be. IWD is one of the least trash combat games on the cRPG market.

We must have played a different game, because I distinctly remember copy-pasted mobs of undead, and dungeon levels where I had to go through the same exact fight several times in a row.

Granted, there may have been minor differences in the mob each time (not sure, maybe), but in such cases they all played exactly the same. I remember that I was actually patient until I reached SoA-levels where I expected that I might get some incline, but no such luck.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Provide actual examples.

If you mean you had to fight more than one gang of the same mook on the same screen, you know, their actual habitat, then fuck off, you don't even know what a trash mob is.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

There's two IWD megathreads this could have been posted in. There's nothing new here, no new angle being broached, no reason for it to be a new thread.

What are you, a librarian?

Can't say I've ever made it to chapter 5 of a game that's boring me to death.

These are tough times. If I only played games that didn't bore me to death, I'd barely have anything to play. See D:OS, PoE, Wasteland 2, etc.

Yes, it's a kind-of like a cRPG version of Diablo, that was its design goal, so mission accomplished. Yes, it's less fun than Diablo, if you consider cRPG D&D mechanics more boring than hack'n'slash action mechanics, there's virtually zero respawning for one thing. It's not a constant progression of corridors, there's barely any corridors. There is no wave mechanics. People like to accuse it of trash mobs, but there's barely any actual trash mobs. BG1 having memorable fights is edgelord reaction-bating horseshit.

Control the butthurt. It is mostly corridors in the sense that a hallway leading into a room with one exit and another hallway on the other side IS a corridor pretty much. Meaning the game is linear af. And it is trash mob delight, as most areas just feature the same monster/enemy over and over, maybe 2 of them if you get lucky. Most don't even have spells or special abilities, and the ones that do just cast the same simple shit (e.g. Hold Monster or Charm or Magic Missile, depending on the enemy).

How many memorable enemies are there? The only one I can recall, having just played through most of the game, is the same one as the guy above, the little girl turned into Naga, and she wasn't anything special, just she actually had a name and did something besides auto attack.

Compare that with BG1, where you had named assassins, main quest enemies, rival adventurer groups, side quest named enemies like the mad cleric with the undead, it's not even close.

That's correct, the story is just an excuse to go monster hunting. Why you have a problem with that is beyond me. No-one's ever promoted IWD as a narrative masterpiece. If you need some kind of really strong motivation to go monster hunting then...

Actually, on the top 70 list, some of the reviews said it has more mature writing than BG games. What a load...

So you're solo'ing the game? How many people in your party?

I am soloing, yes, which should make it more challenging and interesting, but it really doesn't. Haven't really had any difficulty plowing through everything.

 

[Mustawd]

I think IWD is probably a much more boring experience if you aren't familiar enough with the systems to build a good party. You need to have a finely honed team of trash mob exterminators or it'll just drag. The Baldur's Gate games are more tolerant in that respect, you can have kind of a crap party and not know how to utilize it to its full extent but still have a decent pacing most of the time.

Yah well IWD is a straight dungeon crawler. Story fags should not apply.

 

[Bladeract]

IWD is the game where bioware simply gave up on the idea of exploration, which is one of the biggest tenants of a great RPG. The story was of course pretty boring, too, though not nearly as bad as practically every RPG made since then.

It was not as railroading as IWD 2 where you literally experience nearly ever single encounter in a particular JE sawyer order for some reason, but it is much more constraining. Plus I remember the shops pretty well because they are basically the +1 shop, +2 show and so on Items may be better than BG 1 but that really says nothing as that game is pretty low level and also has some really lackluster and unimaginative loot.

I'll still take IWD 1 over BG 1 without mods because the engine sucks and walking is just painful, but IWD 1 is no classic RPG it is just filler and I never had any urge to replay it.

What are you, a librarian?

RPG codex is not for discussions, it's for shilling crap games.

 

[Infinitron]

In other words, "IWD becomes much more boring unless you go for a specialized bum-slaying party in order to trivialize most of its combat and get over the nuisance that it is as quickly as possible."

I thought folks around here thought demanding "system mastery" was a good thing but okay.

 

[Brancaleone]

I thought folks around here thought demanding "system mastery" was a good thing but okay.

So to you "system mastery" is "find the way to get over trash mobs as quickly as possible"? If that's the main challenge the system has to offer, it's an utterly shit system.

The thing is, in your rather unskilled attempt to defend IWD's weakest elements you are doing the game quite a disservice, so it's a moot point.

 

[MajorMace]

regarding iwd vs tob for whomever asked :
- iwd feels like an adventure, tob feels like highlander
- iwd has big atmospheric dungeons
- iwd gives a sense of progression, tob starts at very high level

simple things, but in terms of perception, and how the player feels playing these games, that makes a huge ass difference
so in theory you have two games about combat, in reality you have lvl 20 d&d highlander on the one hand, the fellowship of the ring tree explore the land's history and mythical places to uncover the truth behind some silly ass plot hook on the other hand

 

[Bladeract]

TOB dindu nuffin, it was a fun romp and killing the giants is very satisfying. The only stupid thing about it is that it arbitrarily shifts your alignment after asking some dumb questions. If you disagree you would be a shitbag in Sarevok's place, suddenly you are chaotic evil. Talk about devs with daddy issues

 

[Trashos]

Provide actual examples.

If you mean you had to fight more than one gang of the same mook on the same screen, you know, their actual habitat, then fuck off, you don't even know what a trash mob is.

The point is you have to make things interesting. IWD didn't. I can't provide examples, because I never reinstalled the game. But I do remember very well why I never reinstalled.

Afaic, the RTwP games were destroyed by people who didn't understand what RTwP can do better than TB -and what it can't. The SoA people understood, and that was it. ("destroyed" is too heavy a word, I just can't think of a more appropriate one right now)

 

[Brancaleone]

regarding iwd vs tob for whomever asked :
- iwd feels like an adventure, tob feels like highlander
- iwd has big atmospheric dungeons
- iwd gives a sense of progression, tob starts at very high level

simple things, but in terms of perception, and how the player feels playing these games, that makes a huge ass difference
so in theory you have two games about combat, in reality you have lvl 20 d&d highlander on the one hand, the fellowship of the ring tree explore the land's history and mythical places to uncover the truth behind some silly ass plot hook on the other hand

That was more or less my point: atmosphere, art, party customization and starting from level one have a huge impact in shaping the perception of IWD as a vastly superior game.
Although the linearity, repetitiveness, sub-par encounter design and dull spell selection make it so that it saturates you the more you dig in, and you start to be affected less and less by art and atmosphere. In short, the first impact is great, and then it gets worse and worse. Ideally, the feeling while dungeoneering ought to be "gee, I wonder what's in next room/corridor", not "I really hope there aren't any more rooms/corridors in this level".

Having said that, I've played myself IWD (or at least started it) many more times than ToB, which I completed I think not more than twice (and started maybe three or four times more, I don't remember).

 

[Cael]

Actually, on the top 70 list, some of the reviews said it has more mature writing than BG games. What a load...

Mature themes, perhaps. IWD and IWD2 were pretty casual in the whole rape, murder and genocide as drama while BG danced around it quite a bit.

 

[Tigranes]

itt bioware-made iwd where we see josh sawyer design decisions

 

[Micormic]

Today I learned that hordes of shitty skeletons and lizards aren't trashmods.


Great encounter design there.

 

[Falksi]

Icewind Dale is very much the Dragon Age:2 of the CRPG era for me. By the numbers, all checklist with no real substance.

Bored the fuck out of me.

 

[laclongquan]

Five reason why you can love Icewind Dale.

1.Full party customization. Seriously, this is about the biggest reason people play this game so if you dont like it, chance is you dont like this game. That is totally fine and you dont have to play it. Just dont complain if you insist on being a masochist by playing it while obviously hating it.

2. RTwP combat. Seriously, again, this is the second biggest reason people play this game so if you dont like it, chance is you dont like this game. That is totally fine and you dont have to play it. Just dont complain if you insist on being a masochist by playing it while obviously hating it. Because the obvious and true answer: git gud, scrubs, wont make you happy.

3. The prologue's Dale. Specifically, the water elf quest. You can have several different version if you are paladin, or bard, or et... and talk to her. Or the Auril priestess. Fine details in sudden and damnednessdest place to find~

4. Snow fields. It's something ascetic, and both IWD1 and 2 make use of it. If you like the bleak whiteness of maps and maps you will like this game.

5. Tactical combat in RTwP. If you dont know how to do tactical in RTwP you will obviously turn down difficulty then you complain about slogfest. But it's not the correct way to play this tactical game. You do need to turn difficulty up to hardest, then deal with them properly. It's a tactical game, not a RPG game. Storyfags need not apply.

 

[Scroo]

Icewind dale feels like an oldschool pnp module and the combat isn't the worst when it comes to rtwp. I actually like it better than Baldur's Gate

 

[Brancaleone]

5. Tactical combat in RTwP. If you dont know how to do tactical in RTwP you will obviously turn down difficulty then you complain about slogfest. But it's not the correct way to play this tactical game. You do need to turn difficulty up to hardest, then deal with them properly. It's a tactical game, not a RPG game. Storyfags need not apply.

I always play Insane and delay resting as long as possible (typically until when I have no spells left, or almost so, and everybody is fatigued). Guess what, it's a slogfest just the same. And guess also what, when you have the same groups of enemies copy-pasted to infinity, you tend to use the same tactics with each group, so it's not like we are talking about the epithome of tactics in regards to IWD.

 

[Barnabas]

Don’t know why people say combat is better in iwd or bg because they use the same 2nd edition rules. The combat is literally the same.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Don’t know why people say combat is better in iwd or bg because they use the same 2nd edition rules. The combat is literally the same.

Because they are *not* saying combat is better or worse. They are saying that *encounter design* is worse or better. Two, totally different, things, which many on the codex have a problem understanding.

 

[Trashos]

Don’t know why people say combat is better in iwd or bg because they use the same 2nd edition rules. The combat is literally the same.

The logic behind the design of the encounters is extremely different in SoA and IWD. By that I mean that the designers had very different things in mind with regards to player behavior in the 2 games, and naturally they placed different demands as well.

The result is that they play as 2 completely different systems, afaic. For example, note the enemy number, which showcases the difference in logic. In SoA most of the best fights are against single opponents (dragons, liches) or at least few opponents. Also, at higher levels of difficulty, you have to be prebuffed and generally prepared for what the enemy is going to throw at you, otherwise you are toast. In contrast, IWD's PoTD just throws more enemies at you, and (to the best of my memory), I very rarely had to be prebuffed. I could make do by simply reacting to what the enemy was doing.

Couldn't be more different.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

It's funny people compared it to Diablo at the beginning of the thread, I remember the trailer on original discs specifically asked "why play Diablo when you can play IWD?".
Can't remember if it was BG2 or Torment discs.

It was really good at the time as ie combat honing simulator, and party customisation allowed for sweet roleplaying.

 

[Roguey]

Don’t know why people say combat is better in iwd or bg because they use the same 2nd edition rules. The combat is literally the same.

They do not actually. Josh Sawyer paid particular attention to follow the rules more to the letter, Bioware didn't.

 

[jungl]

I prefer the setting its more relaxing then most crpgs. No name adventurers what you create backstory for kind of like wizardry. Lot of the fun comes with the customization. Getting your paladins armor class to -10, Getting your archer that bow that makes his dps skyrocket. Its like pillars but actually balanced. Elf fighter boss that can clean floor with your party if you careless. Pillars 2 I remember that boss that asks you gather the 3 spell books I had one melee guy disabling him the whole where he did absolutely nothing lol.

 

[Barnabas]

Baldurs gate has open world and less combat while Iwd has more and frequent combat encounters on a linear path. That’s the only thing I ever notice and really see mentioned. I don’t think the actual combat when it takes place is much different or better. Maybe there are some minor differences but I can’t tell. I had a much easier time with iwd than I did bg the first time I played them.