Preview IGN previews Dragon Age

[Vault Dweller]

Apparently, offense is the best defense for good ol' Volly

 

[Volourn]

I was not the one who first brought up Troika, or TOEE. That was Spaz. Don't blame me for the opening he amde. I was just fine with discussing DA; but noooooooooo........

 

[Vault Dweller]

You call "meh" and occasional trolling discussing

 

[Volourn]

LOL My very first post in the very first DA thread on this board was discussing my opinions on the game tidbits and others' opinions on the tidbits. It was certain people's reactions to *my* opinions that led to this humourous mess we finds ourselves in..

All in good fun.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It was certain perople's reactions to *my* opinions that led to this humourous mess we finds ourselves in.

Any discussion that doesn't lead to humourous mess and heavy flaming is a wasted opportunity :wink:

 

[Volourn]

So true.

 

[Dgaider]

Volourn, are you truly surprised that some folks here are not about to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt? They look on every piece of info coming out from Bioware and cast it in the worst light possible. Whoo, shocker.

I find it interesting that the opposite is true of Troika. Even if someone here says that "sometimes they don't live up to their high standards" the implication is still that they have high standards they try to live up to (the same which cannot, no doubt, be said about Bioware) and Bloodlines will, just as ToEE before it, be magnificent and carry on the true spirit of role-playing until it is actually released (and thereafter, naturally, those opinions will still be qualified and justified as much as possible).

Again, no shocker. This is the Codex Way, as you yourself have stated, Volourn. Why, then, you would be surprised that someone would spout such nonsense like Bioware will claim to have invented elves and dwarves is a bit strange. You can't be optimistic and jaded at the same time, you know.

It's okay if they don't like our games and won't buy DA. Really, we'll get over it.

 

[Volourn]

All true. But, I've been told I like playing with bee nests. :D

 

[Spazmo]

Boy, you BioWare types are amusing. I'm not going to deny that I've already decided to condemn Dragon Age--hell, I'll state it again. But it's fun how you choose to ignore how skeptical many of us are of Bloodlines. Even Dark Underlord, who works at a Troika fansite that essentially only really covers Bloodlines at the moment, is capable of criticising the game.

And in any case, when people see us being negative about Dragon Age but being guardedly optimistic about Bloodlines, how come it never occurs to anyone that we might just actually honestly think that Dragon Age looks like crap and Bloodlines might be decent? We're not biased 24/7, you know. Sometimes we form honest-to-Gord opinions about things. Sometimes, we'll even go ahead and express them.

 

[Volourn]

Youa re funny to suggest youa ren't bias when you have admitted to bias in the past. Espicially when you state that becuase you have 'doubts' about Bloodlines is enough consideirng how you ignore my DA complaints. Haha, The bottom line is you have faith in Troika to make BL goodd espite it has nothing new. In fact, it's based off a pnp game; it is about vampires - the 1 millionth game delaing with vampires at that, it proclaims to be a RPG yet it looks more like a FPS. LOL

Bottom line is some people are againstDA for good, solid reasons ala it's just a fantasy game, blah, blah, blah. Otehrs - like you, are bias because of the devloper. Heh, don't worry. i'm boas towards BIo thatd epsite soem misgivings over different aspects of the game - ie. the mp componet - that I'm willing to give them a benefit of the doubt that the entire packaage will make it worthwhile.

You write off DA because it's 'generic fantasy' yet wnat to marry TOEE even though it's even more generic fantasy than DA is. Could it be the devloper? Hmm.. Could be. Nah. Not really. never.

 

[suibhne]

It's also true that, as more information has become available re. Bloodlines, folks here seem to be more guardedly optimistic about it. Troika's PR has slowly won some of us over, at least to the point of curiosity. And even then, there have been plenty of harsh words aimed in Troika's general direction.

I'm willing to give DA a chance, but it's so tempting to pre-judge it when Bioware says (for example) part of its design is inspired by the "tactical combat" of KotOR. If that's simply feces being thrown by marketing monkeys, fine - but folks like you, Gaider, can't expect to win any converts when everything you've said about the game so far is either derivative (the combat perspective switch, the outlines of the gameworld) or just plain ridiculous(the KotOR reference).

If you think Dragon Age is gonna RAWK, tell us why. So far, you've just asked us to bank on your company name, and you've cited inspiration from past games without demonstrating any basic understanding of their faults.

 

[Volourn]

hey, Suibhne, the KOTOR comment is one of the biggest beefs since I'm no fan of KOTRO combat myself. But, heh, I just hope that isn't accurate. i'm hoping the combat is more like NWN and BG than KOTOR.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Volourn, are you truly surprised that some folks here are not about to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt? They look on every piece of info coming out from Bioware and cast it in the worst light possible. Whoo, shocker.

I think the majority of that can be attributed to past development history. We still have hope that Troika, the makers of Fallout and as a relatively new company, can get their shit together and put out a decent game themselves. Something along the lines of the potential Arcanum showed for depth and interactivity, meaningful choices and the like.

On the other hand, BioWare's been around a lot longer and have developed a reasonable perception about what people can expect from them. Troika still have a chance, or a shot at developing something more along the lines of a solid RPG.

 

[Vault Dweller]

They look on every piece of info coming out from Bioware and cast it in the worst light possible.

Worst light possible? Come on, tactical KOTOR combat, how funny is this? "the world won't be inhabited by Dwarves, Elves and Halflings -- although it will be filled with Dwarf-like, Elf-like and Halfling-like races" No, seriously, Dave, what did you expect? Oh, boy, oh, boy, I'm going to play Dvarven Offender?

I find it interesting that the opposite is true of Troika. Even if someone here says that "sometimes they don't live up to their high standards" the implication is still that they have high standards they try to live up to (the same which cannot, no doubt, be said about Bioware)

High, low, it's all relevant. Both companies have their own standards. We like Troika standards and we dislike Bioware standards. Simple as that. Should you care? Probably not. I wouldn't. No offense.

and Bloodlines will, just as ToEE before it, be magnificent and carry on the true spirit of role-playing until it is actually released

Don't be silly. Nobody here is excited that Bloodlines is a) vampire game b) FPS c) real time d) has moron indicators. When it was announced it had a reaction very similar to that of DA :wink: The only thing that we do like about Bloodlines is multiple solutions. If DA has that too, we'd very happy to hear that. Your turn.

Why, then, you would be surprised that someone would spout such nonsense like Bioware will claim to have invented elves and dwarves is a bit strange.

It was a joke, come on. Where is your sense of humor? After all, you guys did claim a lot of things, didn't you (well, may be not you specifically, I don't keep track of such things, but the good doctors certainly have)

It's okay if they don't like our games and won't buy DA. Really, we'll get over it.

Don't cry, Dave. I'll buy one. I love good adventure games. :wink:

 

[Vault Dweller]

You write off DA because it's 'generic fantasy' yet wnat to marry TOEE even though it's even more generic fantasy than DA is. Could it be the devloper? Hmm.. Could be. Nah. Not really. never.

Don't be stupid. You know very well that the one and only reason why we like ToEE is great turn-based combat.

Edit:

it is about vampires - the 1 millionth game delaing with vampires at that

Really? I didn't know that. Name of a few (other then Redemption, of course)

 

[taks]

First off, I think I stated quite clearly: "not to necessarily say that Troika has always lived up to these standards."

Second, I don't see how Troika is an issue here. Last I checked, the discussion was about BioWare and their new game Dragon Age.

uh, you're the one that first brought up troika (actually bloodlines) so you're actually the one that dragged the bio/troika comparison into the mix. yes, you did state quite clearly they haven't always lived up to those standards, btw, but they've also only had two tries so not always living up to the standards implies a 50% at best success rate. let's hope they improve to 66% after bloodlines.

i would agree, however, that getting sick of fantasy settings is probably the only valid reason i've heard from anyone yet that they won't play DA up to this point. i think we need some more info before other reasons are valid... i don't, however, agree that it is a safe assumption DA will be a bad rpg... none of us know. maybe you all don't like fantasy anymore, and maybe you'll end up missing out on the best (or worst) crpg EVAR... none of us know. why don't we wait till we get a bit more info before passing judgment in this respect?

taks

taks

 

[taks]

Really? I didn't know that. Name of a few (other then Redemption, of course)

Strahd's Possession. I have it actually... played it for a while. never finished (some bug or something). it was bad.

taks

 

[Spazmo]

Okay, so with Redemption, that makes two. Now how many horribly bland fantasy RPGs have there been?

Volourn, again, you're missing the point. If I am biased in favour of Troika and against BioWare, it's probably because I've liked all of Troika's past games but have enjoyed BioWare's past titles somewhat less. Now if Ray Sezchuk (or whatever) had stepped on my foot one day and I then decided that all his games would be CRAP forever, that'd be an unfair bias. But since I'm basing this "bias" BioWare's past games, I don't see where the problem is, especially since they've said quite clearly that Dragon Age is essentially going to be just like every game BioWare has made so far yet moreso.

 

[taks]

Volourn, are you truly surprised that some folks here are not about to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt? They look on every piece of info coming out from Bioware and cast it in the worst light possible. Whoo, shocker.

I find it interesting that the opposite is true of Troika. Even if someone here says that "sometimes they don't live up to their high standards" the implication is still that they have high standards they try to live up to (the same which cannot, no doubt, be said about Bioware) and Bloodlines will, just as ToEE before it, be magnificent and carry on the true spirit of role-playing until it is actually released (and thereafter, naturally, those opinions will still be qualified and justified as much as possible).

Again, no shocker. This is the Codex Way, as you yourself have stated, Volourn. Why, then, you would be surprised that someone would spout such nonsense like Bioware will claim to have invented elves and dwarves is a bit strange. You can't be optimistic and jaded at the same time, you know.

It's okay if they don't like our games and won't buy DA. Really, we'll get over it.

hehe, i had a friend once, that used to say "arguing with pete is a waste of air." pete didn't get it. no matter what you said or did. likewise, i've been told that this forum "has a lot of people that like troika" and i should take my opinion elsewhere. trying to argue that is a waste of typed words.

and no VD, i don't think ALL of you are that way i just find it humorous that we all tend to bicker back and forth over things and opinions that really never will change. maybe it's the lack of face-to-face confrontation that allows the extra coupla balls?

taks

 

[taks]

Okay, so with Redemption, that makes two. Now how many horribly bland fantasy RPGs have there been?

i don't have enough digits on me hands and feet!
taks

 

[Volourn]

Dark: Let me see now. You give credit to Troika for Fallout (which is utterly wrong and a LIE) yet you claim BIo has been around much longer 9presumably as a game developer; if not RPG dveloper)? WOWSERS Tell me how these two things are even possible together.

Some Troika members worked on Fallout. Troika did not. That's a fact.


VD: 1. That's the problem. TOEE didn't have great turn based combat. it had great turn based combat RULES. The combat was too easy, and had too many bugbears and other melee types to be great.

The point here, however, is that TOEE had enough good in it, to 'overcome' it's 'generic fantasy' roots for you fools to like it yet certain people are ready to bury DA on the baiss it's 'generic fantasy' though it's not as bad as TOEE in that regard. Ahh.. The difference is the devlopers - espciially sicne you all were cumming at the thought of the deep roel-playing TOEE would offer. Haha.

2. Sure. BG2. MW. NWN. FF7. A good numbe rof other D&D crpgs as well. Oh, you meant with Vampire in ther name? i never suggested otherwise. It's abd enough that Bloodlines is a almost total rip-off of the Masquarde in terms of style, presentation, out look for story, rules, etc., etc. The only difference it doesn't seem to have 9at least i haven't heard) a toolset or a DM client.

Spaz: Please. vampire is a high defenition of blandess. oHH.. vampires in the modern world. ooo.. Nothing generic about that. Of course, despite that it's just another Vampire game, it might still be good. Imagine that!

 

[Vault Dweller]

getting sick of fantasy settings is probably the only valid reason i've heard from anyone yet that they won't play DA up to this point.

How about the infamous tactical combat line? Dwarves- and Elves-like races. Standard classes: fighter, cleric, mage, etc? That makes DA not just a fantasy game, but a very generic and unoriginal game with bad combat.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some Troika members worked on Fallout. Troika did not. That's a fact.

Technicality

That's the problem. TOEE didn't have great turn based combat. it had great turn based combat RULES. The combat was too easy, and had too many bugbears and other melee types to be great.

You forgot to add "in my opinion". Anyway, my comment wasn't about the combat, but about the reason why people like ToEE. You may disagree that the combat was good, but you know that we like it, and that was the point.

 

[Azael]

Well, I'm willing to give Gaider and boys the benefit of a doubt here, KotOR was a step in the right direction if you ask me, not to mention a fun game and if they could just take a few more steps in that direction they could have a hit on their hands. Too little info at the moment to make a qualified guess though, fantasy in itself doesn't bother me too much (though it's not my favorite) as long as it's done in an interesting way.

 

[taks]

Some Troika members worked on Fallout. Troika did not. That's a fact.

Technicality

if a larger part of the team worked on it, yeah... technicality. last i heard there were only a few...

given that, no, not a technicality, a flat out truth. we might as well say obisidian developed fallout. how about inxile? hell, now that JE is working for midway can they say "from the makers of IWD2!"?

c'mon guys, this line is as old and tired as the fantasy setting is getting.

oh, VD, i still don't think those are valid yet. any fantasy setting is going to require monsters and critters and all sorts of things that define fantasy as "fantasy." no matter how you slice it, everything is going to be referred back to the original concepts of fantasy, namely elves and dwarves and such. so what makes something original? different names for the same thing? hardly. also, the tactical combat statement may be indicitave of something sinister, but i still think we should wait and see...

taks