Game News In 2008 his swords become sharper still!

[DarkUnderlord]

Wow. I'm totally falling out of my chair at the re-done translation here. It's like, so totally amazing!

You keep pointing to those two lines. Those are the only ones we've seen so far.

Yup, they are (if you ignore the fan translations). So how about we they show us some actual REAL content instead of the hype? Or is hype all they have?

Educate thyself: http://www.thewitcher.com/resources/upload/img/news/2008/02/Enhanced Edition fact sheet.pdf

I've linked that myself and addressed it twice in this thread already. It really is nice to know that you aren't paying attention.

What, exactly, is your definition of "minor fixes"? When does "minor" become "major"? How is re-recording 5000 lines of dialogue a "minor" change?

You're looking at it from CD Projekt's point of view, not the end consumer. It'd cost Ford hundreds of millions of dollars to change their manufacturing line to make their best-selling SUV 1 millimetre bigger (big change, huge change, massive change even). The end result to the consumer though, would be very minor. I'm not CD Projekt, I'm a consumer. So you'll excuse me if I look at what they're doing from my point of view.

Are you actually so jaded that nothing game developers do now can you make you happy?

I want my bugs fixed for free. I'm not going to worship you for that. When you release a GOTY Edition, I'm not going to praise you for doing something everybody else has done. If you want to re-write the sub-par dialogue, good on you but hey, can you show me what you're actually doing instead of just giving me nothing but hype? And when all you show me is the same line, only with a different voice, you'll excuse me if I'm more than just a little disappointed.

Breaking the line.

@BN: Bioware and Beth hype for games and features we (I) don't like and have to pay for. CDProject is hyping free content and updates mainly for their fanbase and following the fan's wishes for free. So yes, one is a lot more acceptable than the other.
Are they overdoing their hype? Most certainly, imo. But DU has been focussing his criticism on the fact that they are updating their game not on the hype.

If you want the summary, the thread has morphed a bit and so there are a few things I'm trying to get across.

1. First and foremost is what Elwro summed up:
   
   

   Read BN's posts in this thread. Free stuff is good. CDP are trying really hard to establish their new brand, great, it's our gain. Hyping it to the sky is NOT good, though, because this may be a beginning of a new trend: companies releasing unfinished games and hyping 2+ GB patches as 'Enhanced Editions'. Why work hard on completing your game when you can get money for the initial release and do an EE later on? Such thinking (which is absolutely NOT CDP's thinking) could only lead to failure.

   That's what I said in the news post. The last thing I want to see is shoddy games released and legitimate complaints (which are already dismissed off-hand with "it's okay, the modders will fix it") being dismissed with "it's okay, it'll be fixed in the Enhanced Edition". It's a recipe for yet more shoddy product being released on day one (and I'm sorry to those who love the game but the Witcher's load times were simply unacceptable, the same way as ToEE's bugs were unacceptable and Bloodlines bugs were unacceptable), which will lead to reduced initial sales and means there won't be any decent "Enhanced Editions" for the games that fail anyway (The Witcher sold quite well and they wouldn't be doing any of this if it hadn't made the cash from the initial sales).
   
2. The problems that exist with the game which the Enhanced Edition is aimed squarely at (at least, according to the hype) are all the issues that would normally be fixed in a patch. If CD Projekt did this and tried to make you pay for it, the shit would hit the fan. So let's not praise them for fixing bugs for free, okay? It should be standard practice that bugs get fixed for free.
   
3. All the hype is a pure marketing exercise the same as every other GOTY release. On the whole, the re-release itself (special packaging, DVD making of etc..) isn't anything praise worthy. It's business as usual. Again, let's not worship CD Projekt for doing what every other best-selling game has been doing for the past 10 years.
   
4. The only thing that The Witcher is really doing differently is the re-recorded dialogue. And again there, I'm sorry but from reading the actual original Polish to English fan-made translations, combined with CD Projekt's own released examples, I just don't see the big whoop. It's taking them a lot of effort for very little end result to the consumer. Personally? Fuck the time wasted on that. Work on a decent expansion pack with new voices and make something worth spending money on. Not a short 2 hour mod with a whole 5 new quests. If the game was fine on release (which several here attest too) then why waste time and money on this? It's not needed. If however, the original dialogue is such a pile of crap that the entire translation needed to be done again, then something, somewhere went horribly wrong and it should be fixed as part of a free patch anyway.

Yes, all the marketing and hype is obviously just to get the attention of all their beloved fans who already bought the game and just can't wait to replay it with grammatically correct voice overs and gesturing NPCs staring you in the eye with their immersion-inducing new facial expressions in improved weather conditions.

^ This. If "characters actually look at you now" has you jumping up and down on your chair in excitement then you're a sad, lonely soul.

 

[Fez]

That's what I said in the news post. The last thing I want to see is shoddy games released and legitimate complaints (which are already dismissed off-hand with "it's okay, the modders will fix it") being dismissed with "it's okay, it'll be fixed in the Enhanced Edition". It's a recipe for yet more shoddy product being released on day one

Too late. The customers are already buying into the bullshit and parroting it unprompted:

I think PC Gamer's inclusion of Medieval II and Oblivion in the Top Ten is a nod towards the stunning work of the mod community, who took two games that were functionally broken and bugged on released and spent hundreds of man-hours turning them into the games they should have been in the first place had the developers been bothered. The modded-up versions of the two games are indeed Top Ten material. The vanilla versions simply aren't.

Planescape Torment and Anachronox are well deserving of their high places though. Both brilliant games, well-worth replaying now.

IMO, developers (that release their dev tools) intentionally leave their games just a little bit broken so that they can create and encourage the very mod community which you mention. I'm down with that.

:facepalm:

The retardation has already set in. In the future we can expect them to not only be praised for patching a game like they should do, but for deliberately releasing it as broken or a buggy mess as an act of kindness.

 

[Trash]

Somehow I still fail to see what is wrong with an expanded version hitting the market that will be free for those that allready bought the game. Because in the end, that's all that this thread is about.

Anyway, did DU play the game?

 

[mondblut]

In the future we can expect them to not only be praised for patching a game like they should do, but for deliberately releasing it as broken or a buggy mess as an act of kindness.

Don't forget we will also pay for patches, because releasing a bugfix for free is, like, an awesome achievement nobody else would do

Somehow I still fail to see what is wrong with an expanded version hitting the market that will be free for those that allready bought the game.

Nothing wrong with an update at all. Nothing wrong with an updated version hitting the shelves as "collector's edition", it's all too common. Nothing even wrong with devs hyping it to death, this is typical, if annoying, industry practice.

What's "wrong" is some people's asskissing fervor towards something that would be taken for granted (downloadable patch) or ignored/snickered at as a common marketing ploy (published "GOTY"/"collector's"/"gold"/whatever version) were it done by any other developer to any other game.

Come on. The Witcher is a fine game, but a patch is a bloody PATCH. If CDP had to fix a lot of things and thrown in a mod or two while they're on that, it doesn't make a TW patch "more than just a patch". And a "patched TW version with a couple of short mods, a pin and a DVD" isn't "more than a GOTY version", it's as GOTY as it gets.

Nothing bad with either, it's a treatment of either of those as something special which is disturbing.

Next you'll say a TW sticker is "more than just a sticker", roofles.

Because in the end, that's all that this thread is about.

Not at all.

 

[Sergei Quaid]

Where is this asskissing fervor you speak of? All im seeing is you and DU proclaiming this to be a bad thing because a) hype b) TW sux. Looks more like some good ole Codex forced whining fervor, does it not?

 

[Trash]

I've yet to see a patch where they rerecord a few thousand lines, hire new voice actors and add more animations and adventures. Personally I'm rather happy with such aftersales service from a company, but perhaps I'm wierd that way.

 

[mondblut]

Where is this asskissing fervor you speak of? All im seeing is you and DU proclaiming this to be a bad thing because a) hype b) TW sux. Looks more like some good ole Codex forced whining fervor, does it not?

I never said TW sucks. It was a decent game and a rare case of actually doing justice to the setting and characters of original license.

As for asskissing fervor, read this very thread. "Put more effort", "going out of their way", "bit into their own pockets", whine whine whine...

I've yet to see a patch where they rerecord a few thousand lines, hire new voice actors and add more animations and adventures.

If english localization was that bad, fixing the translations and rerecording voiceovers still constitutes as patching. The only special thing about it is that they are fixing the errors not of their own making. This is very kind of them, but hardly worth such worshipful ravings.

(NB: who is publisher of EE? If not Atari, could it be they *had* to redo translation and voiceovers because this part was done by Atari and CDP has no rights to it? Just a thought to consider)

Adding scenarios as free downloads or a part of patch gets ever more common these days.

 

[Longshanks]

Many games have worse dialog than The Witcher (translated or not - edit: from what I've seen of it), no developers that I know of have gone to the trouble of re-writing and re-recording this dialogue for a patch. Bethesda did not re-record their terrible dialogue for Oblivion (changing voice-actor mid sentence is unacceptable).

Scepticism that the EE will not be as much of an improvement as claimed, is fine. But, if they have re-recorded 5000 lines of dialogue and re-translated the text, this is a significant update, above the level of normal patches. Add to this extra animations, graphics improvements, tweaked combat, extra character models, etc..., and it does seem to be more than your average patch (again, Bethesda do not patch their god-awful animations, Interplay did not patch Fallout's samey character models).

Improving on a game above and beyond common industry practise cannot be shrugged off as simple "standard patching". If CD Projekt are holding their work to higher standards than other companies, and improving on it post-release to a higher level, then they should be praised. Some people feel that is what they are doing, and are right to give them credit for it. I do not know if this is the case, I've not followed it all that closely, but will probably buy the EE as I've not played the original.

 

[Silellak]

As for asskissing fervor, read this very thread. "Put more effort", "going out of their way", "bit into their own pockets", whine whine whine...

I've never understood the "asskissing" claim. Doesn't "asskissing" imply we'd be getting something out of it? BOY I SURE HOPE CD PROJEKT IS READING THIS THREAD AND GIVES ME FREE SHIT HAR HAR HAR.

CD Projekt is one of my favorite modern developers, alongside Stardock, so yeah, I'm going to defend them when they get unreasonably attacked for going above and beyond a standard patch because they want to make their game that much better.

Here's the key difference, folks:

A "patch" tends to imply something is broken, and needs to be fixed. You wouldn't put a patch on a tire with no hole. Nothing is outright broken about the Witcher, but there are certainly things that could be improved. The original script wasn't bad - it just could be better.

Instead of just sitting back and announcing "DONE!", however, they're going the extra mile to improve their already-critically-acclaimed game. And yes, in today's video game world, many of us consider that admirable.

Sure, they're hoping to make some money out of it, but so what? It's a business, and in the video game business, people have done MUCH lower shit to try and make money. Let's compare mindsets a moment:

Bethesda: Downloadable horse armor? CHARGE THE FUCKERS.
CD Projekt: 5000 lines of re-recorded dialogue? Eh. Free.

In a world where companies nickel-and-dime you for the most trivial of shitty "improvements" to their game, this is a breath of fresh air. If you all want to be cynical and keeping calling it a patch, go ahead, but somehow I think you have little knowledge of how software development works

And for the record, I have no problem with people being overly cynical and negative about the Witcher, as long as they're funny about it: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher

 

[DefJam101]

I've yet to see a patch where they rerecord a few thousand lines, hire new voice actors and add more animations and adventures.

If english localization was that bad, fixing the translations and rerecording voiceovers still constitutes as patching. The only special thing about it is that they are fixing the errors not of their own making. This is very kind of them, but hardly worth such worshipful ravings.

Again.. you can't assume that just because they are improving something the original version was terrible. The default TW voices were better than most of the shit we see today, primary example: Oblivion.


I think they are hyping it because (to me) The Witcher felt like a great game hiding behind some low production values. Most of the fans of the game (judging by the forums) felt that way as well. Now that they managed to sell a game without having EPIX QUESTS!! EXTREEMEM!!11 production values with millions of dollars thrown in every direction, they are celebrating their success by tossing some money back to the people who supported the game in the first place by fixing up problems that budget limitations create. I, personally, think that is worthy of some praise.

If they sell more copies in the process, who cares? Are they sacrificing the quality of the game in order to sell more copies? (Bethsoft) No they are not, and I'm pretty sure that was the real problem to begin with.

 

[Jedi_Learner]

I know about the voice acting, the improved inventory and the models, but what about quick travel? All this running backwards and forwards is so fucking boring. At the back of the cover it reads, "with over 80 hours of non linear role playing" and I believe it, half of that is spent running from location to location! People find this sort of thing fun?

 

[ghostdog]

I know about the voice acting, the improved inventory and the models, but what about quick travel? All this running backwards and forwards is so fucking boring. At the back of the cover it reads, "with over 80 hours of non linear role playing" and I believe it, half of that is spent running from location to location! People find this sort of thing fun?

Quick travel? The only traveling you'll make in the game is from the city to the island, you go to the docks get the boat and go to the island. Since you can't have free roaming in all the areas you've visited, quick travel doesn't have any meaning. The only problem was the loading times from area to area, but they claim that they've minimized them in the EE.

 

[Shannow]

@DU

1. I still disagree but at least now you say that the EE will not start the trend of unpolished games but that you think it will worsen it.

2. Again I disagree. What needed patching was patched. New yaddayadda (won't list it, I'm not being paid for it) is alot more than a normal patch. I like companies for keeping up support. I especially like it if they add some more content (NWN, Diablo2). But not even basic patching is done by all devs. And I couldn't think of any others than NWN (new cloaks and stuff for modders) and D2 (skill synergies) that added content for free. So not only is adding free content rare it is also on a scale that I consider larger than what was previously done by others.

3. Yes and no. Free update.

4. Ah, if you don't want to put the witch (no pun intended) to the torch you must be a witch yourselfl. You are thinking in absolutes again and I still can't agree. If they want to polish their product at no cost to me I won't complain. I just hope that next time they have their game polished on release. That'd be an even bigger incentive for "asskissing" :twisted:

Anyway, we know each others pov and we won't agree so don't feel compelled to answer to this post.

 

[bonescraper]

Umm, i guess you people missed one thing about this EE. Along with the patch you get the game editor - D'Jjinni and 2 completly new modules made by CDPRed, which (in total) add about 5-7 hours of new gameplay. For fucking free.

 

[Jedi_Learner]

Quick travel?

Example: Shani has asked me to collect some booze for a party. I'm sure this will be an exciting party, what with "personality of a doorknob" Geralt going, but anyway. Unless the area is dangerous, I should be able to click on the Hairy Bear Inn, get the booze, and click back on Shani's house. I want to play the game, not run around the same streets again and again. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? This is but one example of many times where I've spent my playing time running around from A to B. Having a quick travel would of made the first chapter so much better.

 

[Trash]

Isn't that quick travel thingie one of the exact same things that most codexers didn't like in Oblivion? There are btw plenty of encounters when you do quests like that. I fondly remember being jumped by some vampire/bat thing when my pc was having a nice stroll at night. Oh well, I enjoy the exploration and the sense of actually being there. You enjoy a quicker pace. It's all down to personall preferences.

 

[Jedi_Learner]

I fondly remember being jumped by some vampire/bat thing when my pc was having a nice stroll at night.

What, the same vampire/bat creature that spawns in the field next to the hospital or outside the Hairy Bear Inn all the time?

Oh well, I enjoy the exploration and the sense of actually being there. You enjoy a quicker pace. It's all down to personall preferences.

No. I prefer to play the game, not waste my time travelling down the same roads and streets again and again.

 

[RainSong]

I really don't get it, why DU started trolling cedexers?

And in so lame, low level style ?!? I could understand it if he was practising his trolling skills in some clever way, but this? His arguments are so lame they're not even worth countering.

And yet all of you failed your saving throws? What a bunch of... fanboys.

 

[mondblut]

I've never understood the "asskissing" claim. Doesn't "asskissing" imply we'd be getting something out of it?

Dunno, I personally never understood the fanboi mentality so prevalent among certain gamers. I guess they just can't stomach somebody not fervently partaking in their worship of whatever. Religions are strange stuff, ain't they?

Again.. you can't assume that just because they are improving something the original version was terrible. The default TW voices were better than most of the shit we see today, primary example: Oblivion.

ORLY? Everybody from major gaming sites to Codex users themselves used to cry how much Atari had maimed and butchered the english dialogues. I think I'll believe them, for a change.

Umm, i guess you people missed one thing about this EE. Along with the patch you get the game editor - D'Jjinni and 2 completly new modules made by CDPRed, which (in total) add about 5-7 hours of new gameplay. For fucking free.

One of these 2 modules has already been available in the patch 1.3 (yes, that's right, a patch). An editor was available for separate download since that time, as well. Not to mention half of the games released nowadays have an editor included. For fucking free.

And I couldn't think of any others than NWN (new cloaks and stuff for modders) and D2 (skill synergies) that added content for free. So not only is adding free content rare it is also on a scale that I consider larger than what was previously done by others.

Out of five games I have been playing in past 2 months:

Dominions 3 - added a whole new race, with dozens of units and unique spells, with each of the last 2 or 3 patches
Supreme Ruler 2020 - added a couple of new scenarios with every patch
Mount & Blade - a lot of added content in every new version released

(the fourth game was Star Trek TNG: Birth of the Federation released back in 99, so I am not sure if any new content was included in its only patch)

(and the fifth game was none other than the infamous Dungeon Lords, CE of course. Something I would rather NOT compare against the TWEE).

 

[RainSong]

:facepalm:

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Mount & Blade - a lot of added content in every new version released

For fucking free.

I thought this was free as well?

 

[Silellak]

Again.. you can't assume that just because they are improving something the original version was terrible. The default TW voices were better than most of the shit we see today, primary example: Oblivion.

ORLY? Everybody from major gaming sites to Codex users themselves used to cry how much Atari had maimed and butchered the english dialogues. I think I'll believe them, for a change.

He said voice acting, not dialogues. The voice acting in the Witcher was far, far better than Oblivion. I honestly don't remember seeing anyone complain about the voice acting in The Witcher - just the 'poor translation'. However, obviously the voice acting had to be re-recorded if the written dialogue changed. If they chose to improve it while re-recording it, all the better, but the game certainly didn't need it.

And the dialogue is 'mained and butchered' when compared with the original. However, just because it's not as good as the original doesn't mean it's "crap". If the game had originally been written in English, rather than translated from Polish, I doubt anyone would've cared. People - gaming nerds in particular - tend to get up-in-arms when translations aren't "loyal", even if the translations themselves would work as stand-alone material just fine.

See the difference?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

ORLY? Everybody from major gaming sites to Codex users themselves used to cry how much Atari had maimed and butchered the english dialogues. I think I'll believe them, for a change.

Most of the people on the codex who "complained" about dialogue or voice acting were the fags who didn't even bother to play the thing, or the pirates looking for an excuse to steal it. "waaah, i refuse to buy an "inferior" english version of a game".

 

[mondblut]

However, obviously the voice acting had to be re-recorded if the written dialogue changed. If they choice to improve it while re-cording it, all the better, but it certainly didn't need it.

Well, CDP hardly had any choice about recording voiceovers anew if dialogues had to be redone. Whether VO is "improved" or not, is irrelevant. I'll gladly believe the original english VO were perfect, not like it helps CDP with rewritten texts.

People - gaming nerds in particular - tend to get up-in-arms when translations aren't "loyal", even if the translations themselves would work as stand-alone material just fine.

I highly doubt many english-playing people are that fluent in polish, and many polish-playing ones spent that much time with english version, to make a difference in common opinion. Which makes me believe the popular attitude towards english dialogues is based on their face value, not on line-by-line comparison to the original.

(and the question on publisher is still unanswered...)

 

[Silellak]

I highly doubt many english-playing people are that fluent in polish, and many polish-playing ones spent that much time with english version, to make a difference in common opinion. Which makes me believe the popular attitude towards english dialogues is based on their face value, not on line-by-line comparison to the original.

(and the question on publisher is still unanswered...)

No, but people will gladly jump on any excuse to complain. They read somewhere on Internetville that some stuff was lost from the translation to Polish to English and they go into Nerd Def Con 2. And then when they actually find a few samples, they immediately go to Nerd Def Con 1 and start slaming the game's horrible script. Keep in mind we are on the internet, and Hive Mind Syndrome is pretty common. All it takes is a few loud people saying that the game has a horrible, mis-translated script and suddenly the 'popular opinion' is that the dialogue is poor. I don't recall seeing a single professional review that decried the game's script, but I could be mistaken.

I'm all for better translation, especially for free. But I've yet to see any legitimate arguments that the Witcher's dialogues are bad other than "they aren't AS GOOD as the original Polish".

Publisher wise:

The original was published by Atari in everywhere but Poland, where it was published by CD Projekt. I've seen no indication that the EE is being published in North America by anyone but Atari.

 

[mondblut]

I thought this was free as well?

Can't you people read? I am not saying the Djinni editor is not free. I am saying there is nothing special about it, since half the games have free editors bundled with them.

Most of the people on the codex who "complained" about dialogue or voice acting were the fags who didn't even bother to play the thing, or the pirates looking for an excuse to steal it. "waaah, i refuse to buy an "inferior" english version of a game".

Um, did they personally told you?

http://www.google.ru/search?complete=1& ... on%22&aq=f

I guess all the world is full of fags looking for an excuse et cetera.

 

[mondblut]

I'm all for better translation, especially for free. But I've yet to see any legitimate arguments that the Witcher's dialogues are bad other than "they aren't AS GOOD as the original Polish".

Well, the oft-cited example with "humans always hated dwarves and elves" is pretty atrocious. Not quite in the Sapkowsky's style, that's for sure.

The original was published by Atari in everywhere but Poland, where it was published by CD Projekt. I've seen no indication that the EE is being published in North America by anyone but Atari.

As of february, according to Shacknews, "CD Projekt is currently negotiating publishing contracts for The Witcher Enhanced Edition". So anything could be...