Game News In 2008 his swords become sharper still!

[Elwro]

You would, if you read RPG Codex. We'd post about it anyway.:D

 

[Ander Vinz]

You guys get a polished up + about 5 (not sure about exact number) hours of new adventures for free

I've played one of these 'adventures'. It was pathetic.
Free shit is still shit.

 

[barker_s]

Read BN's posts in this thread. Free stuff is good. CDP are trying really hard to establish their new brand, great, it's our gain. Hyping it to the sky is NOT good, though, because this may be a beginning of a new trend: companies releasing unfinished games and hyping 2+ GB patches as 'Enhanced Editions'. Why work hard on completing your game when you can get money for the initial release and do an EE later on? Such thinking (which is absolutely NOT CDP's thinking) could only lead to failure.

Yeah, I guess you're right to some extent, but I believe that hype can be both positive and negative. It's positive when they're hyping their hard work so people can notice it. It's negative, when you're hyping some nonexistent features (Oblivion's smart, dog-killing Radiant AI for example).

So yeah, if it's good, hype it. That's what you pay those advertisers for. Also:

Also, if they didn't "hype" it... I WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

QFT

PS: Check your signature Elwro, the first link seems to be broken.

Edit:

I've played one of these 'adventures'. It was pathetic.
Free shit is still shit.

Trying to give me some content for free? Bad, bad developers!

Seriously though, I've yet to play them so I cannot coment on this one.

 

[sportforredneck]

Down with the tyrant!

Trash for leader of the Codex!

 

[Helton]

Want free patches?

Vote Trash!

 

[Elwro]

PS: Check your signature Elwro, the first link seems to be broken.

Thanks. I just wanted to give a link to any bookstore carrying the book, but the one I gave turned out to be just temporary. I changed it now so that the title of the original is visible :D What's strange, though, is that the forum does not accept my other links any more, telling my my sig is to loong. Oh well.

 

[Trash]

Goddamit, on to the beerhall. The time for a putsch is finally here! Hereby I declare that the Codexian false Ministry is removed. I propose that a revolutionary government shall be formed consisting of a Regent and a Prime Minister invested with dictatorial powers. I propose Herr Helton as Regent and Herr Sportforredneck as just a Prime Minister on the account that he is, after all, a Jew. The government of the DU Criminals and the Reich President Darkunderlord are declared to be removed. I propose that, until accounts have been finally settled with these criminals, the direction of policy in the national Government be taken over by me. Heil mein kameraden. Jetzt die Codex, Morgen die Welt!

 

[Elwro]

"Codex" is "die"? NO WAI

 

[Jeff Graw]

Well there's some patented shitty logic. If The Witcher ever releases an expansion does it negate this free content? When Stardock releases an expansion does it negate the years of free support and total overhauls to their games?

The only shitty logic here is you thinking my logic is shitty. I just think that TW:EE has the possibility of offering more changes than the last two Galciv2 expansions did. I never said that makes Stardock's support of their games pointless though, so I don't know where you're coming up with that. Also what total overhauls are you talking about?

 

[Brother None]

Also, if they didn't "hype" it... I WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

Isn't that true of hype in general?

 

[sportforredneck]

All hail Trash. Trash is the true patriot

 

[Lumpy]

Also, if they didn't "hype" it... I WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

Isn't that true of hype in general?

Isn't this going in circles?
The point was that the EE supposedly didn't need to be hyped, and Lars argued that it did indeed need to be.

 

[Helton]

To: His most high and holy Saint Proboner

I humbly beseech thine assistance. The former tenant of my office the despicable tyrant Dark Underlord, Lord of UnderDark, has commited a crime most foul in his vacating. The leech has made off with the palace's one and only refuse key! The halls are reek and my bowels overfloweth. Please, great Pope and Lord of the salted Earth, send aid!

 

[Brother None]

Isn't this going in circles?
The point was that the EE supposedly didn't need to be hyped, and Lars argued that it did indeed need to be.

I think that's a tough line to sell.

Personally, I think hype is necessary to be competitive, and I'm not even sure if that's a bad thing. It's more public/media reaction (and lack of critical acumen) that is bothersome.

But if hype is something you generally criticize coming from the likes of Bethesda and BioWare (and I don't know if that's the case for Lars, but it is for DU) then yeah criticizing a trailer that tries to sell "his swords will become sharper 2008" makes sense.

EDIT: jeesh, considering how much you guys whine, it really is a small miracle anyone is willing to post news on RPGCodex.

RPGCodex Newsposters must have a rather attention-starved sado-masochistic personality.

 

[Helton]

Let's go back over the conversation.

No other company around today would put this much work into a product and release it as a free update.

Here you don't say "This is bigger than some/most expansion packs", you say (paraphrasing, obviously) "No one releases this much for free".

Stardock

I remember back when I was playing Galciv on and off I'd come back after a few months and it would be like an entirely different game. I'd say that means they released quite a bit more for free. Them and Illwinter being the two I know of who do. Giving credit where credit was due.

Really? The last two expansion packs for Galciv 2 didn't really do much for the cost and the changes could have been patched in pretty easily. I wouldn't be surprised if TW:EE was more of an improvement.

You see here is where the conversation goes "What the fuck?" I hadn't mentioned any expansion packs and neither had you. We were talking about large amounts of free content. What do expansion packs have to do with anything?

Well there's some patented shitty logic. If The Witcher ever releases an expansion does it negate this free content? When Stardock releases an expansion does it negate the years of free support and total overhauls to their games?

The point was there are a few companies who have done similiar things. Not a terribly important point, it's just the original statement didn't sit well with me.

Given a response that didn't make sense within the context of the conversation I am forced to guess at your meaning. The above post is the result.

The only shitty logic here is you thinking my logic is shitty. I just think that TW:EE has the possibility of offering more changes than the last two Galciv2 expansions did. I never said that makes Stardock's support of their games pointless though, so I don't know where you're coming up with that. Also what total overhauls are you talking about?

I was talking about free support for games. You mentioned the expansion packs as a counter-point. That's where I'm "coming up with that".

Overhauls meaning Galciv was a completely different game a year after release.

 

[LarsTheSurly]

Isn't this going in circles?
The point was that the EE supposedly didn't need to be hyped, and Lars argued that it did indeed need to be.

I think that's a tough line to sell.

Personally, I think hype is necessary to be competitive, and I'm not even sure if that's a bad thing. It's more public/media reaction (and lack of critical acumen) that is bothersome.

But if hype is something you generally criticize coming from the likes of Bethesda and BioWare (and I don't know if that's the case for Lars, but it is for DU) then yeah criticizing a trailer that tries to sell "his swords will become sharper 2008" makes sense.

I have no beef with BioWare. I liked Mass Effect. It was a bit... "shootery," but I expected that, because that's what it was billed as. I think the Tech and Biotics abilities saved the combat from becoming boring.

As for Bethesda...

They represent all that is wrong with game developers. They lie about features, they alienate their fanbase (going so far as to downright INSULT them inside their games: Maiq the Liar, Nerd Rage) and on top of that, they have a PR machine that rolls through the media like Sherman through Georgia.

I see these as two opposite sides of the "hype" coin. There are companies that advertise their products (BioWare) and there are companies that spend more money on advertising than game development (Bethesda/Bungie. Halo 3 Mountain Dew? Jesus).

I hardly think CD Projekt is going out of bounds here. It's not like they're trying to sell anything. They've gone out of their way to make this Enhanced Edition, so how are they supposed to spread the word? Skywriting?

 

[Jeff Graw]

@Helton:

Galciv 1 got a "free" expansion set, and I beleive that's where most of the change you are speaking of came from. The problem is that it was only free for a very limited time, and Stardock now charges money for it. I also didn't buy any Stardock game until Galciv II came out, so I'm going from the experience that I've had, hence the example of the small priced mini-expansions vs. the possibly bigger free update CDPR is doing.

 

[Helton]

@Helton:

Galciv 1 got a "free" expansion set, and I beleive that's where most of the change you are speaking of came from. The problem is that it was only free for a very limited time, and Stardock now charges money for it. I also didn't buy any Stardock game until Galciv II came out, so I'm going from the experience that I've had, hence the example of the small priced mini-expansions vs. the possibly bigger free update CDPR is doing.

Then we're simply working off of different anecdotes. Maybe Stardock has changed their policies, I haven't played their games very recently. Galciv was getting new content and tons of rebalancing months after release. Not an expansion pack, unless all of that was repackaged later. I'd say the update cycle was similiar to Toady's work on Dwarf Fortress now.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Actually all you've been doing is speculating on how you've never encountered any such problems (even mentioning your 1 - 2 seconds loading times before any of the patches), therefore the game is fine. Unfortunately, even if you care to read the official Witcher forums, you will notice both load times (even with 1.3) and desktop crashes still occur.

No shit sherlock. Desktop crashes occur for every PC game that's ever been made, and you'll be hard pressed to find a support forum that isn't full of bug reports.

... and a company is fixing them by patching their game. For free. Like everyone else. Nothing new here. That's the point. Why are we praising this company for fixing bugs for free?

In which case this entire Enhanced Edition (of which loading times is a big focus in every interview) is just a pure marketing exercise designed to gain more money by selling the GOTY Edition.

Of course it's a pure marketing exercise, meant to sell more copies

Yup. Business as normal. As has been said. Once again, nothing new here. So why do CD Projekt get all the praise?

So you admit the game causes crashes then and has stability issues for some users? That just because you don't have any problems, other people don't either?

Yes and no. A game always has bugs, remember? I don't know where you got the second one from though. You're the one saying that if some users experience difficulties then there's some huge flaw in the game, remember? That's an ignorant and unrealistic standard if I've ever seen one.

Once again, a developer is fixing bugs for free. Why the hype and why the praise?

If these changes really are so significant though then again, it means the original game can't have been that good, unless of course this is just a hype-driven marketing exercise.

We're done here. Anyone with half a brain can see through that retarded fallacy and I'm tired of debunking it. Just because object B is an improvement (no matter how small or vast) over object A in no way proves that object A is substandard.

Then why are the developers running around infering how substandard the original is? So substandard they had to fix everything, re-do the entire dialogue translation, alter the combat and throw in a bunch of patch fixes. Either this game is substandard or it isn't. If it isn't, why do the developers keep saying it is?

GameCyte: How did the decision first come about? Whose decision was it? Was there any particular resistance to/enthusiasm for the idea on the part of either CD Projekt or its Western publishers?

Tom Ohle: Don’t get us wrong; we were very happy with The Witcher and were confident in the game we released. However, as Maciej said, we wanted to deliver the game that fans deserved. We were grateful for all of the feedback we got from fans and media (and horribly angry at the reduction in review scores brought about by the issues raised... the anger still builds up inside me sometimes, so bad I can hardly stand it!!!) ...breathe, Tom, breathe.

Issues reducing review scores = problems with game. Why "redo the combat system" when the original combat was fine? Something's wrong here. And you know what? It reminds of Bethesda failing to admit that level scaling was a bad idea. And are they really saying they were that happy with the load times in the original? They were atrocious and yet, "oh no - we were happy with them". In fact they were so happy with them that decided to reduce them by 80%.

No other company around today would put this much work into a product and release it as a free update.

Stardock

Really? The last two expansion packs for Galciv 2 didn't really do much for the cost and the changes could have been patched in pretty easily. I wouldn't be surprised if TW:EE was more of an improvement.

I wouldn't be surprised if TW:EE isn't the huge improvement all the Witcher fans here seem to think it is.

Most of us always hate hype, but would we criticise Beth for saying: "We realized that our implementation of level scaling was bad, so we have reworked it and rebalanced the whole game accordingly. We have also worked on dialogue issues. Voices for characters will now stay the same during dialogue. They will not change pitch or mood either. Mini games are out. More VO work was done. We have 20 new voice actors who helped us diversify charaters' voices. We added new lines, you will now hear more random remarks not related to mudcrabs. There are improvements to RAI. We've put this update together with DLC up for a free download and re-released Oblivion with the CE content+previous patches+update+DLC for a low price." WE might, but more because of Beth's bad track record than real criticism with the product.

No, we wouldn't criticise them. Would we heap massive praise on them though for releasing it for free? "Wow, they're releasing a bunch of minor fixes for free, how awesome of them! I'd like, totally pay!" Which incidentally, is precisely what the Witcher fanbois are doing. Some are even going to pay full price for the new GOTY Edition.

Update/patch is free, GOTYEs aren't.

The content in most GOTY's are released as patches. Bethesda did it for Morrowind.

Nobody asks you to, but don't project your dislike on this patch/update.

I actually think the patch is a good idea. What I take issue with is having it hyped to the moon and back (no really, a trailer, for a patch?) and having a bunch of fanbois ranting that this is the greatest thing ever and how awesome it is that CD Projekt are releasing a patch/update for free because we should like, totally pay for patches! Like I've been saying, if this wasn't being done for free, you wouldn't pay for it.

DU hates the Witcher, because it's "unplayable" - apparently having a very odd definition of "unplayable" considering how many people finished it - so anything CD Projekt does sucks.

Nope, I'm just looking at what's actually changing, rather than relying on how CD Projekt hype it. For example, the re-done dialogues have been featured heavily and are one of the things people talk about. Here are the dialogue examples CD Projekt chose to hype:

In the first one, a guy says: "Let's go to the circle of elements, a vast source of power. You must try to learn the signs."

In the second one, a different guy says: "Let's go to the circle of elements, a source of the power. You need to try and learn the art."

Now to the second example... Before, a guy says: "Quick, to the Laboratory!"

In the Enhanced Edition, a different guy says: "Quick, to the Laboratory!"

Wow. I'm totally falling out of my chair at the re-done translation here. It's like, so totally amazing!

If you read some of the threads about the different translations, you'll see there's very little actual difference between the Polish and the English (the people who whinged in the first place were the fans who all had hard-ons that they were missing out on words). The only people who'd play it again are the people who thought The Witcher was the most awesomest game ever and were going to play it again anyway. The rest is hype aimed at marketing a year old game as brand new and trying to get you to pay for the latest GOTY release.

Now watch the trailer this news post is about again. "In 2008 his swords become sharper still. Engrossing new adventures. Refined storytelling. Superior gameplay. Exclusive luxury box set. The best reaches perfection". The engrossing new adventures include a re-release of a mod you can already get for free and two new mods which normal people wouldn't pay for. If they did try to get people to pay for them, it'd be like Bethesda and their attempts to get people to pay for horse armour all over again. In other words, this stuff had to be released for free. There is no "wow, they're doing this for free" factor. If they did it for a price, they'd be roasted alive (quite rightly too). The refined stroytelling I can only assume references the translations. Again, if they made you pay for that, there'd be complaints. Once again, doing it for free isn't amazing. The "superior gameplay" is just pure hype unless they really did radically change the combat system (which from what I've read, they haven't).

As has been said, this is business as usual. A developer is bundling a bunch of patches into the GOTY edition and hyping it. There's nothing new here people.

EDIT: jeesh, considering how much you guys whine, it really is a small miracle anyone is willing to post news on RPGCodex.

For the record, it's not hard to gauge the dominant Codex mind-set and post a counter-point in a news item. You generally know who sits in what camp and who'll agree with you and who won't. In most issues, despite the posts, things tend to break down near a 50 / 50 split. There are very few issues which everyone here actually agrees. Part of that is because we don't ban everyone who posts a counter-argument we don't agree with, which is pretty much what every other forum does.

 

[Silellak]

Wow. I'm totally falling out of my chair at the re-done translation here. It's like, so totally amazing!

You keep pointing to those two lines. Those are the only ones we've seen so far.

Maybe that's the extent of the changes, but I doubt it. I also assume you have absolutely no idea the sort of effort that goes into not only re-writing the game's entire script, but getting voice actors to re-record it all.

I actually think the patch is a good idea. What I take issue with is having it hyped to the moon and back (no really, a trailer, for a patch?)

Why not? They can hype whatever they want to. I imagine it's targeted more at newcomers than at people who already own the game. As someone else in this thread said - and as you ignored - they wouldnt've even known about these changes coming if it wasn't for the hype. Not everyone spends their time reading gaming news sites.

As I said earlier, this re-release is worthy of far more hype than most of the over-hyped crap on the market. If they want to spend their own marketing money on creating a trailer for something that's free for everyone who already owns it, more power to them.

Educate thyself: http://www.thewitcher.com/resources/upload/img/news/2008/02/Enhanced Edition fact sheet.pdf

The refined stroytelling I can only assume references the translations. Again, if they made you pay for that, there'd be complaints. Once again, doing it for free isn't amazing.

Things that will improve storytelling in this update. I am counting things that add immersion as improving storytelling as well:

• Corrected English translation and voice work (over 5000 dialogue lines re-recorded and re-translated

• Improved weather settings for locations

• Character differentiation mechanism (effectively generating approximately 50 new character appearances)

• Look-at feature (characters look at Geralt, deepening player immersion).

• 100 new gesture animations in dialogues and cut-scenes, giving more natural feel of conversations with NPCs.

• Improved facial expressions.

And these are just the changes designed to improve the storytelling/immersion factor. They don't need to add these things to release a GOTY edition - NONE of the above classify as "fixing bugs" - but they did, because they seem to be one of the few developers left who actually give a shit. They want their game to be as close to perfect as possible, and they're willing to dip into their own pocket it do so while offering the changes for free to anyone who already has the game.

That is incredibly admirable, and I can't think of many other developers who have put that much love into a game. But clearly you're too hung up on OMG THEY ARE LAME AND RELEASED A TRAILER FOR A PATCH WTF IS THAT CRAP to see it.

No, we wouldn't criticise them. Would we heap massive praise on them though for releasing it for free? "Wow, they're releasing a bunch of minor fixes for free, how awesome of them! I'd like, totally pay!"

What, exactly, is your definition of "minor fixes"? When does "minor" become "major"? How is re-recording 5000 lines of dialogue a "minor" change? Are you actually so jaded that nothing game developers do now can you make you happy?

 

[Dementia Praecox]

This thread is seriously fuck up man.

They want their game to be as close to perfect as possible, and they're willing to dip into their own pocket it do so while offering the changes for free to anyone who already has the game.

Yes, all the marketing and hype is obviously just to get the attention of all their beloved fans who already bought the game and just can't wait to replay it with grammatically correct voice overs and gesturing NPCs staring you in the eye with their immersion-inducing new facial expressions in improved weather conditions.

 

[DefJam101]

This thread is seriously fuck up man.

 

[sportforredneck]

This thread is seriously fuck up man.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

This thread is seriously fuck up man.

 

[Shannow]

Breaking the line.

@BN: Bioware and Beth hype for games and features we (I) don't like and have to pay for. CDProject is hyping free content and updates mainly for their fanbase and following the fan's wishes for free. So yes, one is a lot more acceptable than the other.
Are they overdoing their hype? Most certainly, imo. But DU has been focussing his criticism on the fact that they are updating their game not on the hype.