Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

In which game did you have the most fun just thinking about character builds

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,521
Location
casting coach
Lots of people tend to like D&D systems, personally, I don't think there was much to it in 2eD-based games, apart from the cheesy spell combinations. I liked the implementation of 3E in Icewind Dale 2, but I always thought the prestige class system to be really tiresome.
There's not so much choices as to how to build a single 2ed character, but when you've got up to 6 of them, you do end up with a ton of potential good combinations. At least with multi-and dual classing options. Then when you take and consider a single game you're already familiar with - already on chargen you're basically making a plan on how to play the game, what equipment to grab for whom at different points, what quests to take after dualing this or that char, etc.

In fact when you make a somewhat intricate plan like that, it doesn't often feel so appealing to play the game anymore - the involved thoughtwork is already done, the actual playthrough would be to an extent just going through the motions. Especially if the game has some really tedious elements, be it trash mobs or annoying interface, that keep you from coasting from bossfight to bossfight to prove that your party build and gameplan were indeed spectacular.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
Codex, I am requesting help.

The latest interview with Tim Cain made me install Arcanum once again. Great. But I have no fucking clue as to how to build my character. I only finished the game once, with a gnome gunner, and went quite far with a mage and a swordsman.
Now I'd like to play a thief/persuasion specialist. What could I invest in? Should I spend some points on fighting skills, if yes then which? Is investing in anything additional, like spells or tech skills, worthwhile, or should I just stick to picking locks and persuasion?
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,521
Location
casting coach
Two spells that I'd alwaus recommend are Charm and Stun (if I remember the names correctly). Even for a techie these don't lose effectiveness. On top of that, depends on how you want to deal with combat - melee is the easiest way, sneak and backstab probably go nice to that though I don't know exactly about backstabs effectiveness. Throwing could work well too, I guess. Or just spamming harm. Or getting the silenced gun schematic, but I'm not sure how much that lets you stay hidden in a ridiculous manner.

And 1 point in either healing spell or healing salve recipe is always well spent.

Then just pick whatever skill, spell or schematic seems cool after you can survive.

Also charm spell + sneak opens up a wonderful exploit that lets you bypass most of the games combat.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,427
Lockpicking increases your tech aptitude a bit, and there are a few schematics to benefit the thief as well (lockpicks, trap springers, buffing mixtures, all that stuff). Nothing critical, as most of the stuff can be found/bought anyway.
Persuasion will open up more char slots, so you can just invest in throwing for a ranged combat skill and be done with it.
(DYI grenades are fun, so is the weapon you get for the master's challenge).

Or, for a full hard-on sneaky experience, you can go all melee+backstab+prowling. For full effect, get the +Agility spell and buy the light dagger whose name eludes me, but costs only 1-2 ap to swing.
With loads of AP you can run circles around enemies and backstab for massive damage bonus.

Both approaches can be fun, depends on how many points you'd like to invest and how good a talker you want to be.
Good thing about arcanum is you don't have to focus too much on the combat skills, but if you do, there's ways to have fun with the otherwise underdeveloped part of the game.

@ Johannes
I agree that D&D is about customizing the party, yeah it's fun to keep all the bases covered (healing spells, wizard spells, thievery, social skills) and at the same time add some custom flavor to the party.
Still, in my experience with D&D, high level spells were so uber powerful, that it made little sense to nerf your spellcasters by multiclassing. It was totally worth it to get to higher tiers two levels earlier rather than later, which means
it was a safe bet to keep at least two of the chars pure class.
Still, there was some fun to be had in customizing the remaining four and BG2 Throne of Bhaal spiced it up a bit, because you had enough exp to actually make a dual, maybe even triple class chars get to the highest spellcasting levels, and I had my share of fun dicking about with Use Any Item and designing chars for solo play, two or three char parties. I played BG1 and 2, ToEE, Ruins of Myth Drannor and found myself gravitating towards a number of proven setups. I admit, it may be my inner powergamer, but I always thought, why bother with a ranger, druid, monk and a bard, when I can get more consistent performance out of a wizard, cleric, thief and a warrior, select a kit if I wish to spice things up a bit.
On the other hand, NNW 2 scares the hell out of me with all the prestige classes. I preferred the early 3ED versions as in Icewind Dale 2 and ToEE.

I also agree about the thoughtwork. It was fun to think up an Assassin-Warrior that uses Use any Item to get the right gear do deal absurd backstab damage, or rack up the resistances until you are invulnerable to all normal damage, but running through the entire BG2 not so much. Better to just fire up the shadowkeeper and see how it works when it's done.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,499
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
spectre NWN2 wasn't like that originally. The expansion packs added more and more prestige classes. So if you bought the game when it was new, it was more of an iterative thing...
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Arcanum, absolutely. One of my favourite character systems ever both from a gameplay and LARPing perspective. Love all the little details to it and the fact that it's impossible to completely max out at more than one thing (unless you remove the level cap with mods). Sure, it's horribly unbalanced, but the amount of options you have make the game very, very replayable.

Neverwinter Nights 2 also has great character creation due to the sheer number of classes, races and specializations, but of course is hampered by being in a rather mediocre/crap game. Still, I probably sit there at the character creation screen for 20 minutes every time I start a new game.

Morrowind and Daggerfall are great too, in terms of options, but are diminished somewhat by a lot of those choices not being very significant once you actually start playing the game and can just power-level whatever you want with little drawback.

From a pure party creation perspective, Icewind Dale and 2 are, of course, excellent. For some reason, Temple of Elemental Evil never really did it for me - though to be honest that probably comes down more to the music and UI than the system itself.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,427
Infinitron
It may be so. NWN 2 OC was a painful experience and I don't remember too much from it. I dropped out early. Last thing I remember were underground caves filled with orcs and some business with lizardmen and boats.
Then I tried Storm of Zehir and got burnt with all the prestigious classes I would have to read up on.

I think the whole system just irks me, why make an entire "class" for what could might as well be handled with a bunch of feats?

Sadly, this also made me forego Mask of the Betrayer. I would hand over my KKKs now, but I plan on making myself go back to it at some point in the future .
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,521
Location
casting coach
I admit, it may be my inner powergamer, but I always thought, why bother with a ranger, druid, monk and a bard, when I can get more consistent performance out of a wizard, cleric, thief and a warrior, select a kit if I wish to spice things up a bit.
But when you compare that lineup to Sorcerer, ranger/cleric, f/m/t, and paladin... Which is better and why?
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,427
I'm not saying build variety is impossible, it's just that I can hardly muster a serious boner for character development in D&D (-:
 

Redshirt #42

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
341
Arcanum, NWN2 and Wizardry VII. I would spend hours (or even days in Wizardry's case) just making characters before actually playing the games.
 

User was nabbed fit

Guest
JA2, v1.13. trolololol. Okay, JA2 is more to do with 'gear building', but it's fucking awesome and nothing comes close to it. By far the most fun I have when it comes to developing characters in a party. As for 'real' cRPGs... probably Arcanum.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
517
Location
The frozen north
Megatraveller. I spend ages taking characters through their pregame life to see how they ended up, much much more than on tha actual game, which kinda sucked. It was freakin addictive ;)
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom