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Indiana Jones and the Great Circle - coming December 9th

Bad Sector

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It isn't just the tank controls but also how more "directed" the games are (in that they try to direct what you can and cannot do). For example in Core's Tomb Raider games you can do something like this (example from Tomb Raider 2's expansion that i happen to have installed)...

3G7O4ct.jpg


...even though it doesn't make much sense in this case as you'll slide down the moment you climb up. However this is a byproduct of the engine allowing you to grab pretty much every ledge in the world - ie. it tries to be consistent - and the level designers even take advantage of this with some areas (mainly secrets) being accessible by combining the rules on how Lara interacts with the environment. When you enter a new room you don't immediate know which parts are meant to be climbed or are just there for decoration because everything is consistent.

In comparison, in Crystal Dynamics' Tomb Raider (example from Tomb Raider Legend that i also happen to have installed), Lara refuses to grab this platform...

lrRIUu8.jpg


...even though there is clearly both enough space for her and she can easily reach it, just because the level designer didn't mark it as climbable. There isn't consistency, you're arbitrarily following whatever the level designer thought you need to do. Of course in either case the designer did have something in mind, but with Core's approach the solution isn't always obvious - and in the process of looking for it you may even find other stuff (e.g. in Tomb Raider Legend's first level there is a secret behind a destructible wall which is all this wall is meant to be used for whereas in Tomb Raider 1's first level the secrets rely on you grabbing and timing your jumps properly, which is also what you'll be mainly doing for the rest of game).

And sometimes the players can find solutions that level designer just didn't think about, but because the game's rules as consistent they happen to work.

I've only mentioned it in the game development thread so i don't know if you've already seen it, but last year i made a short 3D game for an MS-DOS game jam which started as a Tomb Raider style platformer though i was running out of time and made it more of an adventure/puzzle game with some platforming. In the second level there is a part where you have to get into a raised platform to collect an item, which is done by raising another platform. My intention was that you'd jump on that platform from the place where you raised it, but then i saw this video a couple of days ago with someone doing a short review while playing it:



Specifically at the 6 minute mark where he climbs on a smaller platform nearby and then jumps and grabs the raised platform - i didn't even think that was possible when i made the level, that smaller platform was there just for decoration. But because like Core's Tomb Raider the game applies its rules consistently (ie. you can grab any ledge and if there is enough room you can climb it) he found a different way to reach the platform.

(also as a sidenote, while my game has tank controls, you can also use the mouse to rotate the character which is IMO more precise than Crystal Dynamics' approach where the camera orbits around Lara)

I've also mentioned in other threads that personally i see games (or at least the gameplay part of a game) as simulations of rules and actions and with that perspective i think that having consistent rules that have a large(r) set of applications (e.g. any ledge over X degrees can be grabbed) is better and more interesting than having specific rules for specific scenarios (e.g. only explicitly marked ledges can be grabbed).

IMO the latter leads to game design like in inXile's Hunted: The Demon's Forge where you can put a regular arrow in a fire to make a fire arrow that you can use to light some hanging fire lanterns but when later you get the ability to throw fire and/or make your own fire arrows you can't use those abilities to light said fire lanterns and still have to find a specifically placed fire to put a regular arrow in to turn into a fire arrow :-P. It does better in other design areas though, so it's ok.
 

kangaxx

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Is it possible to make a modern big budget game (with associated look and feel) and maintain that level of precision though? I don't know the answer.

I'm with you in thinking the Core TR's are the best ones, but I just think the CD ones are a decent compromise, particularly compared to the recent ones. Hopefully the devs of this Indy game don't go down the modern TR path...
 

Bad Sector

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Well, yes, pretty much every game Arkane game has consistent rules and they're quite modern and big budget-y :-P.

In terms of platforming precision ironically a first person perspective allows for more precision in terms of alignment since you are essentially doing tank controls with the camera being the tank :-P. But i think the current approach for 3rd person perspective games with the camera orbiting around the character and push-to-direction is a working compromise for something that works with most input systems. The approach i used in my game where i rotate the character with the mouse (which isn't anything new, far from it, many games had it before, like Max Payne, pre-Skyrim Bethesda's titles, Oni and a bunch of others) works perfectly fine with the mouse (like playing an FPS with the camera drawn a bit back) but feels more awkward with a gamepad than the camera orbit approach feels with a mouse. Then again Fortnite seems to be using that approach (...judging from a video with PS4 gameplay i just skimmed through, i do not have the game) and is widely popular.

And TBH the more mechanics they shove to their games (i've only played the 2013 one but from what i remember it was already an open world collootathon with crafting), the more of an issue i have with the other stuff i mentioned than the controls. The controls are my concern about TR because Core's Tomb Raider games were mainly platformers (shooting always felt to me as something that they tacked on and i never really liked it).

But i doubt any modern AAA+ game will focus purely on platforming instead of being what Yahtzee called "Jiminy Cockthroat" in his recent video :-P
 

kangaxx

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I'm actually a fan of Prey and the Dishonored games, but I always found their platforming to be weirdly clunky-yet-forgiving in the way you described above. It's hard to tell whether that's a misconception because of the FPP though. I know the blink in Dishonored is intrinsic to a lot of the level design choices, but even the regular platforming was made more bearable by that ability.

And TBH the more mechanics they shove to their games (i've only played the 2013 one but from what i remember it was already an open world collootathon with crafting), the more of an issue i have with the other stuff i mentioned than the controls. The controls are my concern about TR because Core's Tomb Raider games were mainly platformers (shooting always felt to me as something that they tacked on and i never really liked it).

Yeah I agree. I think the combat was ok in the first TR though because they didn't overdo it. It became more out of place in TR2 and 3 IMO. Weirdly it seemed to work quite well in TLR.
 

Bad Sector

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They are forgiving in that they give you a lot of leeway (which i think is kinda necessary for FPP platforming) but what i meant is that they are consistent in that -from what i could tell anyway- they allow you to climb and platform though anything. IIRC in Prey you can stack up arbitrary objects and the climb mechanics will work because the game doesn't rely on designers to explicitly define what can be climbed or not but just applies it to any flat surface with enough room (again, as far as i could tell). And this sort of thinking permeates their design approach.

Of course this sort of approach also ends up with clunky results more often than not (e.g. i remember a video with someone placing objects in a way that caused the character to pass through stuff :-P) and i think is the main reason why it is avoided in general as it makes harder to polish a game.
 

Wirdschowerdn

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The Darkness and Chronicles of Riddick lead designer joins MachineGames' Indiana Jones

"I'm so excited about what we are building".

Matt Wales avatar


News by Matt Wales Reporter

Published on 1 Dec 2022



Jens Andersson, lead designer on Starbreeze Studios' acclaimed shooters The Darkness and Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, has joined Wolfenstein developer MachineGames to serve as design director on its highly anticipated Indiana Jones project.

The new Indiana Jones game was unveiled early last year, although details were limited. It was described as featuring an "original story" unconnected with the upcoming Indiana Jones 5, with Bethesda's Todd Howard executive producing in collaboration with Lucasfilm Games.

Andersson, who also helped create Eurogamer favourite Yoku's Island Express, announced he'd joined as design director on the "very special" Indiana Jones project in a statement shared on Twitter (thanks VGC), explaining, "I'm so excited about what we are building, and the way we get to do it - featuring one of [the] most iconic characters ever."

poster


As Andersson points out, though, this isn't his first tangle with Lucasfilm's beloved archaeologist; he was previously hired by LucasArts as lead designer on the company's own Indiana Jones game back in 2009, but that project was cancelled "before [he] even got there".

"Now, I get a chance to do what I [originally] hoped to," his statement continued, "but this time I get to do it with some of my oldest and best friends. Joining MachineGames is like coming home - amazing people I worked with during Riddick and Darkness, but also teeming with new ones, whose talent daily blow me away".

According to VGC, Andersson will work alongside creative director Axel Torvenius – who previously worked as art director on the Wolfenstein titles – and Jerk Gustafsson, who is executive producing for MachineGames.

While details on the studio's Indiana Jones game remain slim (despite fan efforts to pick its teaser trailer apart for clues), Bethesda's Todd Howard touched on the project earlier this week. Describing it a "definite love letter" to the movies on the Lex Fridman Podcast, Howard said, "It is a mashup. It isn’t one thing, intentionally, it does a lot of different things that we...have wanted to do in a game so, it’s a unique thing".
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/22/23770141/bethesda-indiana-jones-game-xbox-pc-exclusive

Bethesda’s Indiana Jones game is exclusive to Xbox and PC​


Bethesda’s upcoming Indiana Jones game will be exclusive to Xbox and PC. Pete Hines, Bethesda’s head of global publishing, confirmed the exclusivity during the FTC v. Microsoft case today. Indiana Jones will also be available day one on Xbox Game Pass.

The game was originally announced in 2021, just months before Microsoft finalized its $7.5 billion deal to acquire ZeniMax Media, the parent company of Doom and Fallout studio Bethesda Softworks. The Indiana Jones game is being developed by MachineGames, the same studio behind the Wolfenstein franchise. It’s being created under a new Lucasfilm label, which is part of an increased focus on games from Disney.

All we’ve seen so far is a teaser video and no details on when the Indiana Jones game will ship, nor on what platforms until today. Hines was questioned as part of witness testimony in the FTC v. Microsoft hearing today, with the FTC’s counsel revealing that Disney had a contract for multiple consoles and that the deal was amended after Microsoft’s Bethesda acquisition to be just for Xbox consoles.

Asked why Microsoft had changed Indiana Jones to an Xbox exclusive, Hines explained Bethesda liked the idea of removing the risk of game developer and bringing it to Xbox Game Pass. “The primary one in my view is what I said about reducing risk and trying to get to a degree of certainty,” said Hines. “You’re dealing with a licensor who’s going to have a ton of feedback on what you’re making, add a lot of time to your schedule.”

Microsoft also made Starfield and Redfall from Bethesda exclusive after its acquisition. The FTC argues that this behavior could carry across to Activision Blizzard games if Microsoft was to close its $68.7 billion proposed acquisition. The FTC has filed to request a preliminary injunction to block Microsoft from closing its Activision deal until the conclusion of its own administrative process.

Update, June 22nd 4:25PM ET: Article updated with additional comments from Pete Hines.
 

The Dutch Ghost

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Oh finally the sequel of Fate of Atlantis!
In your dreams.
We have passed the era of gaming in which we would have had a real follow up to that game.

Pretty sure the game, probably better that the Dial of Derp, will still be disappointing in some ways. Developers simply just can't resist it.
 

Morpheus Kitami

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May 14, 2020
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"Great Circle" sounds like it's either going to be about the Freemasons or druids. I'd be pretty stoked if it were 20-30 years ago.
 

-M-

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Oh great, another main character voiced by a tired Troy Baker. There must be dozens of voice actors that sound more like Ford, can give a better performance, and are boatloads cheaper.

Also the money shot in the trailer is jumping from one plane to another, the very first thing you do in MachineGames first Wolfenstein...
 

Habichtswalder

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Wasn't expecting it to be first person. It's not necessarily bad, just surprising.

However, the game itself looks quite mediocre. The 2nd protagonist Gina could be annoying and Indys facial expressions and voice acting are not exactly on a level you would expect for such an iconic character. The cutscene gave me heavy uncanny valley feelings tbh. I still hope the game will turn out decent, ultimately I have a soft spot for Jones.
 

Baron Dupek

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Finally a worthy successor of Deadfall Adventures
GEJ6J4tWgAEmdKJ
 

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