Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview Informative Fallout 3 interview at Eurogamer

Excrément

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,005
Location
Rockville
GhanBuriGhan said:
Well, there are several apects to it for me. For one, I have a lot of respect for the Fallout fanbase and the franchise itself (although I don't agree with the more rabid outpourings from said fans), and I have supported their requests, mostly because, well, they are the fans, they should have a say.

On the other hand I am a latecomer to Fallout, and although I intellectually appreciate what the game does and is based on, if you'd ask me personally I would probably enjoy a first-person DeusEx like Fallout more than a modernized version of the old game engine. Immersion is a swearword here, but it is important to me, it adds to my enjoyment, and thats why ever since UU I like first person action RPGs. I like the with complex quests and lots of world interaction, and other RPG goodness though, not mainly for the action. I just think that my personal preference isn't that important with regards to Fallout, because I am not a fan that has waited for a decent sequel for the last 10 years. Still, its not personal for me, and anyway, the fans they fight the fight good enough themselves.

A second aspect is that while I agree that it is not a real sequel of Fallout, it "could" be a much better game than Oblivion, from what I heard so far. There I just have a different disposition than most people here, who say: as long as its not proven to be good, it's most likely really really crap, at best a half-assed abomination. I understand that, but thats just not me. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, being critical but positive, before Oblivion, and I gave my opinion after it came out, and a lot of the bad things predicted here turned out to be unfortunately correct... I will hold to the same principle here, because thats how I think it should be done, thats how I would want to be treated if I were a dev. The same applies to any other game or company. Or any other media, really.

A final aspect is that I think a new IP actually has more chance of recapturing what made Fallout great than a Fallout sequel, even if it were done with all the old mechanics intact. A lot of people pointed out that Arcanum (which I havent played yet) is really almost a Fallout game, if you are serious about weighting Gameplay over the setting, as argued by many Fallout fans. And from that point of view I think we have such a game coming, I am talking about AoD of our very own VD, of course. We'll see how it lives up to such expectations, but I think AoD could be enough to satisfy my personal rather minor craving for some good old classic RPG TB gameplay.

I second that, I have quite the same tastes.
latelycomer fallout fan, enjoy sandbox game and first peson view rpg.
I hope Fallout will be better than Oblivion.
The only thing which is for me very important is the dialogue, the storyline and the atmosphere and that's why I am the typical daggerfall fan who liked but not enjoyed Oblivion.
 

M0RBUS

Augur
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
206
Gambler said:
M0RBUS said:
Are they? Wouldn't it be nice if you could refuse to go search the water chip?
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the way it would be implemented. However, don't you think that the the list of things that "would be nice" is pretty much infinite?
What about "would be nicer". I think fallout would be a better game should you have the choice.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,390
Hazelnut said:
DarkUnderlord said:
Hazelnut said:
They are making Fallout 3! And from the looks of it they will have (almost) everyone convinced that it's actually a respectful and true sequel to the legacy of Cain et al.
No
No? No to which bit? Ah crap it's nearly 2am and I have a 3yo who's programmed to go off in <5 hours so I'll try and understand it tomorrow.
D00d. u miskqoted me! I'm now going to have a spastic attack and froth at the mouth for the next 9 pages even though I know quite clearly what you meant.

Basically, "no" to the part about everyone being convined about the legacy. Only the previews are going to say this Fallout 3 is another second coming of a Tim Cain Jesus. Once everyone's bought the game, it'll be the next batch that start the turn around about how it was a failure. "In hindsight" Fallout 3 will likely end up being some miserable piece of crap which game journo's bag as they reference the next second coming. Just like Oblivion.

GhanBuriGhan said:
A second aspect is that while I agree that it is not a real sequel of Fallout, it "could" be a much better game than Oblivion
Which makes Oblivion a very sad game indeed.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
DarkUnderlord said:
Hazelnut said:
DarkUnderlord said:
Hazelnut said:
They are making Fallout 3! And from the looks of it they will have (almost) everyone convinced that it's actually a respectful and true sequel to the legacy of Cain et al.
No
No? No to which bit? Ah crap it's nearly 2am and I have a 3yo who's programmed to go off in <5 hours so I'll try and understand it tomorrow.
D00d. u miskqoted me! I'm now going to have a spastic attack and froth at the mouth for the next 9 pages even though I know quite clearly what you meant.

:lol:

DarkUnderlord said:
Basically, "no" to the part about everyone being convined about the legacy. Only the previews are going to say this Fallout 3 is another second coming of a Tim Cain Jesus. Once everyone's bought the game, it'll be the next batch that start the turn around about how it was a failure. "In hindsight" Fallout 3 will likely end up being some miserable piece of crap which game journo's bag as they reference the next second coming. Just like Oblivion.
I get that, but surely the reviews will have the same legacy fulfillment message too? I get the cycle you're referring to and fully expect it to happen how you say, but I really don't see that you're disagreeing with any of my statement with the 'No' bit so I'm assuming it's redundant. (or I'm being dense)
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
M0RBUS said:
What about "would be nicer". I think fallout would be a better game should you have the choice.
I think so as well. But it's one thing to argue for having choice, and it's another thing to argue against having a storyline. They are not mutually exclusive. They do affect each other, but why do you think the effect is bad?

Edit:
BTW, my overall position regarding Fallout 3 similar to the one GhanBuriGhan has. I respect Fallout for it's design ideas, but I don't have a strong position regarding it's... well, game style. I see many weird things in F3 previews and interviews, but I see many promising things as well.
 

aries202

Erudite
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
1,066
Location
Denmark, Europe
If you look closely at the pre-view from critical-hits.com you will see that Bartoneus (the guy who wrote the preview) is saying that the dialogue lines have full sentences, which mean that they don't have one word dialogue, like Oblvion did.

The dialoque will probably be OK, and a bit better, if not a lot better than Oblivions. Now if only someone could use that Megaton bomb on the main quest in Fallout 3....then..... (and by the word 'use', I mean the word 'use' in a symbolic sense of the word).
 

Araanor

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Messages
829
Location
Sweden
Brother None said:
Hazelnut said:
which I believe (possibly incorrectly) originated from here
That's probably incorrect.
Well, originated, no. But I think we can blame its current use by Beth devs and others on the Codex. The Codex picked it up as a mantra to describe meaningful role-playing, since merely "choices" were getting abused by the marketing departments and their extended arms. The point being, of course, that choices are meaningless without proper consequences. This is my impression, at least.

"Choices and consequences" is pretty explicit, so it will be harder to misappropriate. "RPG" is something to weep for, though.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
Araanor said:
Well, originated, no. But I think we can blame its current use by Beth devs and others on the Codex. The Codex picked it up as a mantra to describe meaningful role-playing, since merely "choices" were getting abused by the marketing departments and their extended arms. The point being, of course, that choices are meaningless without proper consequences. This is my impression, at least.

"Choices and consequences" is pretty explicit, so it will be harder to misappropriate. "RPG" is something to weep for, though.

If so, they probably picked it up from NMA, not the Codex. It's very likely that it got through NMA via Codex users, tho'. But I've seen Bethesda pick up remarks from NMA and DaC more often than not, hoping that saying the right thing will get us to shut the hell up.

Makes me miss Sawyer.
 

Top Hat

Scholar
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
476
Comrade Hamster said:
If only we had a time machine where we could go back in time with a shitload of money and keep Interplay afloat.

If only we had a time machine in order to get a shitload of money.

If only we had a shitload of money in order to fund a time machine.

CATCH-22!

(Edit: God I hate this stupid crashing browser!)
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
Brother None said:
Araanor said:
Well, originated, no. But I think we can blame its current use by Beth devs and others on the Codex. The Codex picked it up as a mantra to describe meaningful role-playing, since merely "choices" were getting abused by the marketing departments and their extended arms. The point being, of course, that choices are meaningless without proper consequences. This is my impression, at least.

"Choices and consequences" is pretty explicit, so it will be harder to misappropriate. "RPG" is something to weep for, though.

If so, they probably picked it up from NMA, not the Codex. It's very likely that it got through NMA via Codex users, tho'. But I've seen Bethesda pick up remarks from NMA and DaC more often than not, hoping that saying the right thing will get us to shut the hell up.

Makes me miss Sawyer.

I remember seeing Fable advertised with the line: "For every choice, a consequence". I highly doubt Molyneux or his advertising group picked it up from the Codex/NMA/DAC.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
If only we had a time machine we could go backwards in time and kill Hitler before Einstein gets a chance!

You're an idiot on every possible level, why would you want to do that? Command and Conquer: Red Alert was a great game.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
Comrade Hamster said:
If only we had a time machine where we could go back in time with a shitload of money and keep Interplay afloat.

Terrible idea. We need a time a machine and a gun so we can go back a kill Interplay's incompetent management. Giving them Herve Caen a bunch of money would just have let him finish BoS and given us nothing but a promise of a vrai FO3 down the road. Then the money would be gone, Interplay would still be bankrupt, and nothing would be different.
 

Araanor

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Messages
829
Location
Sweden
Greatatlantic said:
I remember seeing Fable advertised with the line: "For every choice, a consequence". I highly doubt Molyneux or his advertising group picked it up from the Codex/NMA/DAC.
I said "current use by Beth devs and others".
 

AnalogKid

Scholar
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
291
Location
SoCal
GhanBuriGhan said:
gc051360 said:
Tough sitting through the "GREATEST GAME EVER" talk.
I hate that too. But then Its just part of advertisement, and no more to be taken serious than the promises that my aftershave will make all pretty women go crazy with desire for me.
See what you just did there? See? SEE? SEEEEE!!!!??!?!?!?

Ahem, uh anyway... the "GREATEST GAME EVER" talk that's tough to sit through isn't the game's direct advertising on its website. It's the previews, reviews, interviews and other supposed "news" coverage of the game by gaming "news" sites. You just instinctively (and correctly) dismissed it out of hand as being "just part of advertisement", equally ridiculous to you getting laid, and not to be taken seriously!

(mebbe a bit of mis-paraphrase there, but, well, you know... ;))

One can (and should) ask the question: why are gaming news sites "just part of advertisement" for games? But to question whether they are or are not is just insanity!

Unfortunately, the target audience is young, or parents disconnected from games, and therefore naive enough to think that gaming "*views" are some version of "news", or at least honest opinion. Older, wiser, more experienced people just automatically accept it and reflexively reject the hype, wasting massive amounts of energy sifting through crap to try and find a few nuggets of factual information (since the non-factual stuff is reflexively understood to be "just part of advertisement"). In your case, it doesn't even appear to bother you that you're required to do so.

Other people get really pissed off about it and try to point it out and remind everyone how fraudulent it all is.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
galsiah said:
I googled it for kicks.
"Choices and consequences" came up with hardly anything game related.
"Choices and consequences" RPG came up with:
Increasing Student Engagement by Using Morrowind to Analyze Choices and Consequences

Maya Kadakia said:
A number of educators have been espousing games’ potential to situate learners in deep, meaningful experiences... This study is the first to take a different tack...

It really is quite disturbing. Curse you Brother None.

Bethesda's seed money came from members of the Democratic Leadership Council... 95% of teachers are the drones of left-wing unions. The primary characteristics of the left are hatred of the family, hatred of free enterprise, hatred of personal responsibility and hatred of creativity.

I'll leave you to connect the dots.

During the 2004-2005 school year, I conducted a pilot study of my master’s project which focuses on how student engagement is aected by a curriculum that incorporates popular culture. I created a Language Arts unit which incorporates the video game Morrowind. I teach seventh grade Language Arts and Social Studies at a
diverse middle school in Madison, Wisconsin. Our student population is roughly 50% low income, 50% minority, 25% English language learners and 20% students with special educational needs (Madison Metropolitan School District, 2004a).
That's right. Because socio-economic-racial minorities don't have enough difficulties as it is - some of them actually do well, despite the teacher unions efforts - and as a result see through your communist agenda. So what do you do? You force them to play Morrowind...

edit:
I also played games at school (a couple times a year before holidays in computer class), but at least we had the choice between Theme Park and SimCity 2000.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom