Interview Interview with Josh Sawyer at Hardbloxx

[Infinitron]

Again, romancing NPCs was a huge deal in BGII and a lot of people asked for that. Normal fans, not grognards. Yet it isn't in the game.

But there's also a pretty vocal contingent of people who think romances are kinda lame (this isn't just a Codex thing). I think in a poll it could swing either way, so Obsidian wisely chose the route of saving their resources for more important things.

Your theory of "Sawyer does what people ask for" clearly is wrong. His position is more towards "I'll give them what they need, not what they want"

I'd call it "Give them what they want, but modified in the way that they need".

the majority of flaws come from the things Sawyer decided he could do so much better.

The majority of flaws have little to do with "Sawyerism" or "evil balance" and have more to do with, basically, the same sort of things most people would say say BG1 is lacking in when compared to BG2.

 

[Hegel]

Again, romancing NPCs was a huge deal in BGII and a lot of people asked for that. Normal fans, not grognards. Yet it isn't in the game.

Your theory of "Sawyer does what people ask for" clearly is wrong. His position is more towards "I'll give them what they need, not what they want", and that sucks, because we know he didn't like BG2. That's why the majority of PoE's high points comes from the Baldur's Gate blueprint; the majority of flaws come from the things Sawyer decided he could do so much better.

To be fair, Obsidian is a dysfunctional company. Kickstarter or not, an employees shouldn't have been allowed to publicly slander the company's customer base. Furthermore the project lead should interact with the community, the official forum are there for a reason. Alas, the guy shut himself inside the SA bubble, sulking and partaking in a circlejerk.


I don't buy the "saving resources" angle. They cut a lot of Avellone's content, so if saving time was indeed a concern it certainly didn't affect the NPCs .

 

[felipepepe]

But there's also a pretty vocal contingent of people who think romances are kinda lame (this isn't just a Codex thing). I think in a poll it could swing either way, so Obsidian wisely chose the route of saving their resources for more important things.

Are you REALLY arguing that overall the pro/against romance opinion is a 50/50 split?

I'd call it "Give them what they want, but modified in the way that they need".

Yes, the famous "bad builds are garbage, if you think they are fun then you are wrong" attitude. Such great result came from that...

The majority of flaws have little to do with "Sawyerism" or "evil balance" and have more to do with, basically, the same sort of things most people would say say BG1 is lacking in when compared to BG2.

Bullshit. Baldur's Gate 2 improved the amount and quality of content, the rest was already there. What PoE 2 needs to do improve its systems as a whole, and that requires a level of humility far from Mr. "Pretty much all games get rulesets wrong".

 

[lurker3000]

But there's also a pretty vocal contingent of people who think romances are kinda lame (this isn't just a Codex thing). I think in a poll it could swing either way, so Obsidian wisely chose the route of saving their resources for more important things.

Are you REALLY arguing that overall the pro/against romance opinion is a 50/50 split?

I'm only pro romances if you can have a 3d depiction of my character boning someone. I would have destroyed Grieving Mother if given the chance.

Also sex cards are an acceptable substitute.

 

[Cynicus]

I'd call it "Give them what they want, but modified in the way that they need".

Which smacks no less of hubris. You need to put more points in your spin-doctor skill.



Anyway, Hegel googles 'grognard' and gets a hot Romanian. I try 'grog' and get this:

Spoiler

I really need to work on my karma.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'd call it "Give them what they want, but modified in the way that they need".

I'd call it "Fuck off with your armchair psychology bullshit".

You and Sawyer always know what everybody needs. Aren't you just the awesome?!

 

[Wizfall]

The majority of flaws have little to do with "Sawyerism" or "evil balance" and have more to do with, basically, the same sort of things most people would say say BG1 is lacking in when compared to BG2.

Bullshit. Baldur's Gate 2 improved the amount and quality of content, the rest was already there. What PoE 2 needs to do improve its systems as a whole, and that requires a level of humility far from Mr. "Pretty much all games get rulesets wrong".

I totally agree, i'm quite confident about the improvement of the content for PoE2 (despite the fact that i do love big city like and Josh don't so it may not improve as much as i would like).
But i strongly dislike the MMO combat system, the per encounter abilities are an awful mechanics that makes me hate the combat.
Unfortunately i don't see that changing and it kind of kill my enthusiasm for a sequel.
Too bad because the engagement system was quite ok and could be further improved.

I also dislike in a lesser extent the character system (might for firearm i stll can't...)but it's a minor flaw compared of what you do during 90% of the game (BG2 character system was very bad too but did not have aberration like might and a huge saving grace : dual and multi-classing).
Also the crafting should be removed or made like in BG2, as it is it makes the loots even less interesting that it already is.

 

[Volrath]

Are you people ever going to get over your obsession with Josh fucking Sawyer?

 

[felipepepe]

No.

 

[Prime Junta]

Everybody ITT is wrong. Including Josh Sawyer.

 

[Jedi Exile]

I keep hearing that 'they cut a lot of Avellone's content'. What is this all about? What exactly did 'they' cut?

 

[Copper]

On one hand, I think it's pretty obvious many of the game's flaws in area and encounter design are to do with the amount of rookie designers/interns. On the other, it's hard to take that veteran devs like Sawyer and Tim Cain signed off on the reputation/faction mechanics, the enchantment system, and most significantly, the stronghold and thought 'Job well done'.

Personally I've nothing against the stat system per say - power building in general doesn't excite me, which seems to be the case for most of the system's proponents, but I've no affection for AD&D either. Generic gamist stat system is bland, news at 11.

The Codex should be far more upset with Sawyer's company man ethos, keeping scope in check and reducing certain features to pointless checkboxes as a result. Possibly also 'Hey, my character has, like, 5 scenes, and Chris has 15 for his two characters apiece - we need to cut that shit down?'

 

[Prime Junta]

I keep hearing that 'they cut a lot of Avellone's content'. What is this all about? What exactly did 'they' cut?

Parts of the Grieving Mother's and Durance's story arcs. There was also supposed to be a JRPG style "mind dungeon" which let Charname explore the GM's sordid history.

Spoiler

Durance and the GM share a history. Durance is so weird largely because something nasty happened between them and the GM used her cipher powers to mindwipe him, thereby permanently damaging his soul. Or something like that anyway.

 

[catfood]

With the POE expansion or sequel they should either:

a) rework the system from the ground up, something that's not likely to happen since it requires an awful lot of work, not to mention that Sawyer would have to swallow his pride, which he can't do because it's so big he'd choke to death on it.

b) a more realistic solution would be to go the PST route: say "fuck you" to the system, and just focus on the writing, plot, characters and C&C. This is easier said than done now that MCA has left. Does the guy who wrote for MOTB still work there, or was he fired again?

 

[Visbhume]

Parts of the Grieving Mother's and Durance's story arcs. There was also supposed to be a JRPG style "mind dungeon" which let Charname explore the GM's sordid history.

While we don't know much about the "mind dungeon" stuff, I'm not a fan of the concept. Reifying a character's psyche in that manner feels like a cheap narrative device. And it would be costly in terms of resources. Better to explore and develop your characters within the context of the main narrative, I think.

By the way, does anyone know who wrote Eder? Enjoying him so far.

 

[Infinitron]

Bullshit. Baldur's Gate 2 improved the amount and quality of content, the rest was already there.

You say that with the benefit of hindsight.

There is a large number of people on this forum who believe that Baldur's Gate 1 is absolute garbage, but that Baldur's Gate 2 is good. What would happen if we went back to 1999, and told those people "Just wait and see guys, the sequel to this Kobold and Hobgoblin wilderness hunting simulator is going to have encounter design, itemization and quest structure 180 degrees different from the first game. It'll be like a totally different thing!" Would they believe it? Or would they say, "No, your shitty bastardization of AD&D RTwP system can never support that, it needs to be reworked from the ground up"?

 

[Jedi Exile]

I keep hearing that 'they cut a lot of Avellone's content'. What is this all about? What exactly did 'they' cut?

Parts of the Grieving Mother's and Durance's story arcs. There was also supposed to be a JRPG style "mind dungeon" which let Charname explore the GM's sordid history.

Spoiler

Durance and the GM share a history. Durance is so weird largely because something nasty happened between them and the GM used her cipher powers to mindwipe him, thereby permanently damaging his soul. Or something like that anyway.

As I expected, it wasn't really that much. And lol at people who hate the stronghold - as Sawyer said, it was supposed to be just a minor feature from the very beginning. Considering they had to do that stupid mega-dungeon, this isn't really that surprising.

 

[Roguey]

Remember when Bioware thought that Dragon Age Origins needed to be reworked from the ground up, good times, great results.

Ah, ok. Thought that may be the case as I did a quick search and the only close match was a SA thread where crawlkill seemed to be moaning about "Gold Box worshipers"

It's just a trollish rewording of "We’re all very happy with how it has been received. I did not think it would review as well as it did (it’s the highest-rated game I’ve worked on), but I’m glad people are enjoying it. The most frequent complaints focused on... reduced combat challenge in the late game... Our goal was to make something that captured the spirit of the Infinity Engine games, regardless of the individual changes and adjustments we made along the way. I believe we have ... captured that."

Remember

We have stated pretty clear goals both internally and externally. As long as we feel that we hit those goals and the majority of players agree, we can't worry about the margins who a) never agreed with those goals or b) don't feel we met them. It's just not a productive way to go about design.

From that statement, it's clear that Josh considers grognard complaints to be marginal (and he's right).

 

[Kem0sabe]

I also hope that successful smaller games (in terms of budget) can help motivate some publishers to be interested in this type of project again

I bet hes talking about Underrail and how it is influencing Obsidian to leave real time combat rpg's.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Fuck you, Sawyer.

Avellone is a bigger hack than Sawyer. Stealing credit from others and doing jack shit in an imaginary position all day.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

From that statement, it's clear that Josh considers grognard complaints to be marginal (and he's right).

Perhaps. I'm sure he's hit the sweet spot with SA goons and casuals, I look forward to them funding his future endeavours. SA Goons like paying for things so he's got it made.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

It sickens me that a SA Goon was put in charge of this project.

 

[felipepepe]

You say that with the benefit of hindsight.

There is a large number of people on this forum who believe that Baldur's Gate 1 is absolute garbage, but that Baldur's Gate 2 is good. What would happen if we went back to 1999, and told those people "Just wait and see guys, the sequel to this Kobold and Hobgoblin wilderness hunting simulator is going to have encounter design, itemization and quest structure 180 degrees different from the first game. It'll be like a totally different thing!" Would they believe it? Or would they say, "No, your shitty bastardization of AD&D RTwP system can never support that, it needs to be reworked from the ground up"?

You're intentionally missing the point. Those who hated the RTwP combat in BG also hate it in BG2, the game didn't change that. BGII isn't "180 degress different" from BG, it just expands on it.

For example, itemization is much superior in BGII, but you already had cool stuff like the Spider's Bane, the Moonblade, Drizzt's swords, Boots of Speed, the Claw of Kazgaroth, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Cloak of the Wolf... there was something already there, they just expanded on those. PoE's itemization sucks, even the legendary weapon you must collect all pieces & reforge is a shitty and boring Estoc with some boring +% bonuses. The only interesting item in PoE is Eder's armor, and that stands out so much against the rest of the game that people thought it was broken and it became a must-have.

That's the point, BG needed to improve its content and expand its system. PoE needs to improve its content and CHANGE its system.

 

[Infinitron]

You're intentionally missing the point. Those who hated the RTwP combat in BG also hate it in BG2, the game didn't change that. BGII isn't "180 degress different" from BG, it just expands on it.

From a content perspective, it is. Codexers tend to conflate content and systems, blaming the deficiencies of the former on the latter. "I don't like wilderness trash mob hunting campaigns and unpolished encounters in my low budget, overstretched, first-game-to-use-the-engine RPG, and also Sawyer changed some systems stuff, so that must be the root problem! TEAR IT ALL DOWN!"

That's the point, BG needed to improve its content and expand its system. PoE needs to improve its content and CHANGE its system.

Items != system.

P.S. Some new thoughts on mage duels here now that I've played the game: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...thout-hard-counters.97027/page-5#post-3970144

 

[felipepepe]

Yeah, Obsidian have the most experienced RPG devs around, people who worked for +20 years making RPGs, their lead design arrogantly piss on every other system out there, and the reason why PoE sucks is because it uses a new engine... I see now.

Oh, and Codexers are fucking stupid, they can't differentiate content from system. Or maybe Obisidan devs are fuckign stupid, since according to you they designed the system one way, then filled it with content another way! Regardless, Emperor's New Clothes guys, only intelligent people see how cool PoE's system are.

How can you get more apologist than this? Maybe by endlessly white-knighting the game without even playing it. Seriously man, WTF?